Need help: eBay support telling buyer and seller opposite "truth"

[trainyourhorse]

What can we do when eBay has created a technical issue that neither buyer nor seller can resolve?

The seller didn't understand managed payments so thought that I didn't pay. But I did already pay. They asked me to contact eBay.

I tried to phone, but they don't accept phone calls anymore. So I tried chat and it told me chat was not available and provided no information about it ever being available again.

So I contacted PayPal to find out why the seller didn't get the money. I didn't realize that PayPal had opened a dispute.

Apparently, that dispute caused eBay to not release the money to the seller. The seller, understandably, then did not want to ship the products because they didn't think they would ever get the money.

The seller could ship the products which would resolve MY loss. But who knows whether eBay would actually then give the seller the money or not?

Ebay support told me that the PayPal dispute had to be closed for them to do anything. So  I had PayPal support close that dispute. 

And I have sent the seller a screen capture taken today showing that I do not have any open disputes in PayPal:

eBay support is telling the seller that the reason I haven't received a refund is because of the PayPal dispute.

eBay support is telling me (the buyer), that the seller has NOT cancelled the order and they have to cancel it for me to get a refund.

And the seller claims they did already cancel the order. But the order is still showing as shipped in my eBay Purchase History. 



So, I asked the seller to try to cancel the order again. This is their reply that says they now cannot cancel the order in eBay's system:

"I have literally went into the order status and tried to press cancellation was told that there was a pending dispute and could not. ???"

Does anyone have a solution to this problem? It is $171 or I would have just written the loss off already instead of wasting time and stress dealing with this.

I already asked eBay support what happens if the seller won't cancel. They said they were doing some manual review  that would take over a week.

But I'm not clear on what that process is or what happens next. At this point, it looks like eBay can just keep the money, the seller is out the sale, and I have no recourse.

Any suggestions?  

[rebell45]

I take it you paid with PayPal, so I'd call them and find out exactly what the status of the payment is and go from there.  888-221-1161

[trainyourhorse]

Ebay has the money. PayPal has no open dispute and declined to give me the money back when I first asked them where it was. They said eBay is in control and I had no basis for asking for a refund.

Unfortunately, that may mean that if eBay refuses to resolve this that PayPal will not let me request a refund on it. I'm probably going to be out the money if I can't get eBay to resolve it.

So, PayPal's view was eBay has the money and I couldn't get PayPal to give it back (at least at that point).

[lacemaker3 · Accepted solution]

Previous thread with back story. This is a comedy of errors, unfortunately.

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Buying/Seller-claims-he-didn-t-get-the-money/td-p/32028137/page/2

@trainyourhorse;

As I told you before, once the PayPal case was opened, that closed all possibility of getting eBay to help with this. If you open any dispute outside of eBay, any eBay case that is open will be closed automatically, and you can't open one if you hadn't opened one yet. Closing the PayPal case can't change that. 

This whole thing started because you jumped the gun, and panicked too soon. You contacted PayPal about the payment, and somehow a PayPal case was started, apparently without your knowledge. Even so, that still made it impossible for eBay to help you, because the PayPal case takes the resolution out of eBay's hands and into PayPal's hands. eBay no longer had control over the money, PayPal did. You should have left the PayPal case open, and let it play out.

I strongly doubt that the seller will ever get the money in this case, because of the PayPal case, and your attempts to start an eBay case. I can't see eBay ever releasing the money to the seller.

What will happen in this situation, is the money will eventually be released back to your PayPal account. Closing the PayPal case was not a good thing to do, but even so, if the money does not get released to the seller, eBay will send the money back to where it came from. That is your PayPal account. I just don't know how long that will take. My best guess is that it could take up to about 30 days. Possibly more, but hopefully not.

The best thing to do at this point, is wait for that to happen. Anything else you do at this point, is probably just going to drag this out even more. 

If you funded the purchase with a credit card, you will be safe because you have up to 180 days to file a dispute if you don't receive the item. I doubt that you will, because I highly doubt the seller will ever get the money. So, the seller purchased a shipping label, but they're not going to ship it. Once the seller purchased the shipping label through eBay, it is marked as "Shipped" and the seller (and eBay) can't change that once it has been done. However, the post office hasn't received it, and they won't because the seller isn't going to send it now that this transaction has been so messed up.

Frankly, I would wait at this point. Be patient. You will be able to get your money back, but if you try to start another dispute with your credit card, that will probably make it take longer.

So I DON'T RECOMMEND that you contact your credit card at all. You will probably get your money back faster if you don't, but it means that you don't need to worry about it. You will get it back eventually.

[trainyourhorse]

I paid it out of my PayPal balance.  Does that change your belief that I might manage to get a refund someday?

The mistakes made are because of what eBay and PayPal customer support have advised us to do. We don't know how their systems work and shouldn't need to either.

eBay said to have PayPal close it and then they could fix it. PayPal did not disagree. eBay caused this problem by forcing this seller into managed payments and continues to make it worse.

One transaction as screwed up as this one is a strong incentive to find somewhere else, ANYWHERE else to buy what I need in the future.

[trainyourhorse]

Note that PayPal had already rejected my request that they either send the money to the seller or refund it. So that claim was already dead in the water.

Strangely, it isn't showing as a closed case in PayPal. Maybe they have some way to delete it so if eBay won't cancel the order and refund the money I can open another one?

How can PayPal have control of the money if there is no case? eBay should be the one with control of this money. And none of this would have happened if they had just given it to the seller in the first place.

[trainyourhorse]

I went back to the transaction in PayPal and that got me to where I can see it. It says, "You can appeal the outcome of this case on or before July 13."

So I have to appeal this before July 13th or I won't be able to do anything about it at PayPal.

Do you have any other advice for me about deciding what to do before July 13th?

[lacemaker3]

In the end, the money will either be given to the seller, or  returned to the buyer.  Neither eBay nor PayPal will keep the money. Since there isn't a credit card company involved in this case, that simplifies things a bit.

The correct way for a buyer to handle this situation, would have been to wait until the estimated delivery date had passed. Most likely, you would have received the item, because the seller would have received the payment, or seen the eBay notice of payment, and shipped the item.  If you didn't receive it, then you would file an Item Not Received case with eBay, and received a refund if the seller couldn't provide a tracking number showing delivery. Filing with PayPal is a backup, a second resort. Filing with your credit card is the last resort.

In this situation, you should appeal the PayPal case, and change it into an Item Not Received case. PayPal has already told you that the payment was processed correctly. The money has been sent to eBay, and because of the disputes that have been opened, it is on hold in the seller's account. eBay probably won't release it to the seller now unless the items is shipped and delivered.

PayPal will assume that the item will be shipped; you will have to wait and see if it gets shipped. If you do this, then you will get a refund from PayPal if the seller can't provide a tracking number showing delivery.

There's a possibility, that if the PayPal case is changed like this, that eBay may see the changed status of the case, and let the seller know that the funds will be released if they ship the item.

If the seller believes that, then the seller may ship the item. If they don't ship it, then you would receive your refund.

I would not let the July 13 deadline pass without trying to appeal and change the case type to Item Not Received.

[trainyourhorse]

Thank you. I just wanted to know whether you thought I should appeal it or not based on what you said previously about waiting.

That said, sellers should know how selling works and not expect buyers who don't sell to know about managed payments. 

And eBay should make it more obvious that there is some way to still contact them. When their toll-free number says they don't answer anymore and their chat is down more than it is up, how would we know whether they would actually call back or not?

Ebay used to be a decent place to buy things. And they've made a lot of money off of my purchases over the years.  It is unlikely to get better. So as a buyer, this is no longer a good place to risk money.  I just hope there are other places to buy that work better.

[trainyourhorse]

You've been so helpful. I hate to ask you again, but this just keeps getting worse. As you recommended, I appealed, but there was no way to change the status.

PayPal still shows "under review". So today, the seller messages me that eBay informed the seller that I am creating a "charge-back".

So the seller freaked out and said they're sending ONE of the TWO identical items. If they actually do that (I've asked them NOT TO), then they will have a delivery proof and I not only waited WEEKS for a refund, but may get scammed out of half of the products.

Is there no way to fix this? I have messaged the seller again asking them to PLEASE NOT SEND because that will just make this all worse.

Them not understanding why the money wasn't in their account (due to managed payments) is what caused all this. I didn't know anything about that because I don't sell here; I only buy.

Is this going to count as a chargeback on the seller? That isn't good. I don't want that. I just want this hell to be over already.

[faithfashionfriends]

I closed my Paypal account and it cleared up alot of the hassel. Just dealing now with Ebay makes things a whole lot less complicated. Just my opinion. Me and a thousand other people got hacked on December 31st on Paypal and I don't trust them anymore. Just wondering why do you have Paypal if now we don't even use them anymore? Good Luck. 

[downunder-61]

@faithfashionfriends    Just wondering why do you have Paypal if now we don't even use them anymore? Good Luck. 

Paypal is still available as a payment method on eBay

[kh-ornesh]

Hi everyone,

Due to the length of time that has passed since this thread began, we have locked it from future replies. If this is still an issue that warrants discussion, don't hesitate to begin a new thread HERE.

Thanks.