Does Paypal/Ebay ALWAYS side with buyers?

[ragsnrobots]

Recently I had a buyer message me that he had received his package but that I had forgotten to put the actual item in there. Of course I smelled a scam immediately, because it's something that I only ever took out of the original box to photograph, and I always weigh the entire thing on a digital scale before I print the shipping label. I asked the buyer if the box might have been opened and stolen during transit, but he adamantly claimed it was well sealed the way I described it being, and I had taped it up so well it would have been apparent if it had been opened. Looking at the buyer's history, he's run this same scam on 5 out of 9 his last transactions.

He first wanted to be refunded without going through Ebay or Paypal's resolution center (not, or course, for me to just ship the item I "left out.") I told me that if he could sent me a picture of the shipping label showing that it was 9 oz (the weight of the item) lighter than it should be, I would immediately refund him...but of course he couldn't because I have a receipt, a screenshot of the browser history where I paid the full amount for the weight of the item, and even another picture of the same item in another color, which, with packaging, weighs exactly the same.

I spent half of this nice long weekend outlining my full case in a document to paypal, including pictures and the messages back and forth to the buyer in which he blatantly lies multiple times. He even lied about things that were clearly visible in his own pictures.

Naively, I thought I actually had a case, but in less than 2 hours, Paypal had ruled against me. I appealed to no avail.

I almost feel all the effort I put into making my case wasn't worth it, especially on one of the few days I have off from my full time job, but I don't feel right just rolling over and giving into scammers. I have read on these forums that Ebay and Paypal will pretty much ALWAYS side with buyers. I guess this is true? And what do you seasoned sellers do to protect yourselves from these situations besides buying shipping insurance, which I don't think would have covered me in this case anyway? Sorry for this long story, and I wish it had a different ending.

[kansas_gal06]

cowabunga, I would call ebay and tell them the buyer violated ebay's unwelcome buying policy (by circumventing your no international sales requirement) as well as used false contact information (their foreign address).

http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/buying-practices.html

Did they write that in an ebay message, or an outside email? I hope it was an ebay message....you can tell the phone rep the email ID which is in tiny print on the bottom of the message.

edit - and tell them you want the negative FB removed, as long as you've got them on the phone!

[komokwa]

New seller

No Returns

Smart Phone

blocks not in place

=

Shout out to all off shore scammers !!

I see no end in sight of people who think( or are told..) that they can jump on eBlech...sell their used electronics...pocket the cash ....& then walk face first into a brick wall !

Sorry this happened to you C-B , but I need to ask , where you got the idea that this would be a slam dunk ?

[bluemountainretailers]

First - was all of the communication in the eBay messaging system?

Second - did you upload your tracking info into eBay?

Third - did you use signature confirmation (necessary on all purchases over $250)?

eBay almost always sides with the buyer the first time. You have to appeal the finding to get them to look at the evidence.

Appeals process:

http://pages.ebay.com/help/sell/appeals.html

Good luck!

[hondamedic]

Sorry this happened to you. You did use DC right? And it shows delivered to the forwarders address, right?

There is something you can do. Their FB page reports they are in the US but they are not.> http://feedback.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewFeedback2&userid=kinosiaxle1991&ftab=FeedbackLeftForOt... Note someone else got a NEG & stated they were not in the US, you should respond to the FB you received in a similar manner.> http://pages.ebay.com/help/feedback/respond.html 

Request their contact info.> http://www.ebay.com/sch/ebayadvsearch?_sofindtype=9

Call the phone # you get in via email and see what you get. If an answer ask to speak with your buyer. A fax machine? No answer? Disconnected? Why?> http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/identity-false.html 

ID's are not allowed to give false info:

Not allowed

Falsifying or omitting contact information such as a name, address, or telephone number Using a fax number as a telephone number Using a disconnected telephone number

If the phone # false, report.> http://spd.ebay.com/RBASellerHub Then get on the phone and don't quit until your money refunded and the FB removed. Keep quoting the eBay policy to everyone you speak to. On your first contact ask for the call # and each time you get transferred tell the new CS Rep the #. Do not give up!

Hope this helps and let us know how you make out.

[cowa-bunga]

kansas_gal06....buyer put this info in an ebay message.  will i really get very far by calling ebay?  i'm under the impression from all i've read that this is just a big waste of time.

[cowa-bunga]

komokwa....i am not a new seller.  i've been buying and selling on ebay since the beginning.  i have also sold an old ibook on here with no issues.  in fact, i have never had any issues buying or selling until this last time.

[cowa-bunga]

1)  yes communication was through ebay messaging

2)  i did upload tracking info to ebay

3)  i did use signature confirmation

as far as the appeals process, i've read all the info on the ebay site for this.  but there is no "appeal" button or option to be found anywhere.

[cowa-bunga]

yes i did use delivery confirmation and it was delivered to the address i sent it to.  i'll try calling to see how far i can get.  thanks for all your info & links.

as far as the feedback goes....how can i respond to the negative FB?  is there a place to comment?  if so, i'm not seeing it.

[bluemountainretailers]

There should be an appeal button next to the case in the resolution center - if there isn't then you need to call ebay.

[kansas_gal06]

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@cowa-bunga wrote:

kansas_gal06....buyer put this info in an ebay message.  will i really get very far by calling ebay?  i'm under the impression from all i've read that this is just a big waste of time.

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Excellent!  If they put it in an ebay message that they don't live at the address you shipped it to, that buyer absolutely violated both the unwelcome buying & false contact policies and you have proof that eBay can verify it as well.

Yes, I really do think you can get your money back & the negative FB removed by calling. When they try & tell you they will do it after they end your call (they always try this with me when there is a billing issue, and it never gets fixed after), tell them you will wait on the line until you see the money refunded in your account.

 If you get a jerk when you call the 1st time, just keep calm & hang up. You have proof in an ebay message that the buyer violated their policies, so you should get all your money back (even the FVFs) and the negative FB removed.

[kansas_gal06]

Forgot to mention, when you call, make sure to write down their name & ask them for the call transaction ID. That lets them know you are serious about pursuing this.

I would not worry about reply to the negative FB, since you are going to ask them to remove it entirely.

But here is the page on that.  You need their ebay user ID

http://pages.ebay.com/help/feedback/respond.html

[theguitarpartsguy]

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@cowa-bunga wrote:

komokwa....i am not a new seller.  i've been buying and selling on ebay since the beginning.  i have also sold an old ibook on here with no issues.  in fact, i have never had any issues buying or selling until this last time.

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Hi, I am guessing Komo was looking at your register date in the left column is why he thought you were a fairly new seller, as eBay has been around since long before 2010.    I agree with what Kansas is telling you about filing an appeal, although you have to be careful with just about any type of electronics, as they are the most scammed type of items on eBay, and the iPhone/iPod/iPad being the top offenders.  I hope you get it sorted out, they *should* find in your favor considering your buyer intentionally hid his address from you.

[theguitarpartsguy]

speaking of that, did the old forum not list your actual eBay registration date in the left column rather than the first time you registered for the forum? I thought it did... if so, then we have just discovered another glitch with the site.... although I haven't been around a lot since the switch to Lithium, so this could have already been brought up and I didn't see it......

[lifeisagift2012]

Probably so... Buyer protection makes for safer shopping.(I think)

[annieland]

I think it's when you registered with the "community."  Even when a particular ID registered.  I don't think we should go by these dates at all when we "profile" posters.  Heck, sometimes you can't even trust the eBay registration dates when they are as old as mine.  Mine says '97 and I've actually been here since '95.  Lotsa system changes since then, of course. 

I'm still getting used to this new board format, it's kinda weird.