eBay

norskmediashop · ‎07-08-2021

There is a lot of confusion now regarding vat for shipments to europe. before the buyer always paid the customs or taxes should they be charged, but now its the seller in the states that has to pay this charge?

recently ebay said? From 15 July we're adding new fields to the Seller Hub Orders Download report regarding EU VAT requirements. The example reports below have been updated with the latest changes.

so as a seller in the US, we have several orders to ship to the UK and France etc...so looking for clarification because Im getting different answers from ebay support.

lacemaker3 · ‎07-08-2021

The buyer pays the VAT. Similar to sales tax in some respects, not all.

The VAT tax is included in the total payment made by the buyer, so it is included in the total used to calculate the eBay fees for the transaction. The VAT is deducted from the payment before it is sent to the seller's checking account, so the seller never receives the tax. But it's not invisible to the seller, and it affects the calculation of fees, so the amount of the VAT is included in the reports so the seller will know the total payment amount sent by the buyer.

eBay adds the VAT automatically for buyers when items are being shipped to a country with VAT in the EU.

It appears that the eBay websites in the EU display the purchase price correctly according to the way it is supposed to be done in the EU: The VAT is included in the purchase price shown to the buyer, so for example if a USA seller lists something for $100.00, and a buyer in Sweden (25% VAT rate) views the listing on an EU eBay site, the price will be displayed as $125.00 (= $100 + 25%).

I don't think that eBay.com displays prices like that for buyers in the EU, but not being in the EU, I can't confirm that. This could lead to confusion for European buyers, if they search for items on eBay.com.

Here's more information about eBay collecting VAT from the buyer's viewpoint, for listings on eBay USA (from USA sellers):

https://www.ebay.com/help/buying/paying-items/paying-tax-ebay-purchases?id=4771#section9

7606dennis · ‎07-08-2021

The buyer usually pays the VAT and any Duty that may be owed.

"It is an intelligent man that is aware of his own ignorance."

norskmediashop · ‎07-08-2021

thank you

north40sales · ‎07-08-2021

so eBay remits the VAT that they collected from the buyer to the appropriate taxing agency?

1: Why is the VAT even part of the calculation of the final value fee? The money never gets to the seller, but they pay a fee on it?

2: VAT should not even be an issue on an item that a seller ships to a domestic US address. The eBay global program offers international buyers a domestic US shipping address to use. The Seller pack and ships to the US address provided by eBay. Once delivered there, the contract between eBay and seller is completed. Any further handling or shipping and the associated costs and fees is a service provided by eBay to their end customer.

lacemaker3 · ‎07-08-2021

@norskmediashop, this may be useful. I used a fictitious name and address in Norway as the shipping address.

Your listings will look differently on different eBay websites, and depending on where the buyer is registered and if they are logged in or not.

This is what one of your listings will look like on the checkout page, if a buyer in Norway buys the listing on eBay USA www.ebay.com. The VAT is a separate line item.

This is what the same listing looks like on an eBay Europe website (Ireland, because they use English there). If I am not logged in, (or presumably if a buyer in Europe is logged in), the website shows the price with the VAT included. In this case, on eBay Ireland, the default VAT rate is 23%, which is the rate in Ireland. $28.95 * 1.23 = $35.61. This is the way buyers in Europe are used to seeing the VAT: included in the purchase price. (This also the shipping cost to Ireland, not Norway).

However, if I am logged in (with my account registered in the USA), but with a shipping address in Norway the same listing looks like this. In this case, it is showing the VAT as a separate line item, which is not how it is usually (or supposed to be) done in Europe. The total price is the same, with the same shipping address, whether it's on eBay.com or eBay.ie.

lacemaker3 · ‎07-08-2021

@north40sales wrote:
so eBay remits the VAT that they collected from the buyer to the appropriate taxing agency?

1: Why is the VAT even part of the calculation of the final value fee? The money never gets to the seller, but they pay a fee on it?

2: VAT should not even be an issue on an item that a seller ships to a domestic US address. The eBay global program offers international buyers a domestic US shipping address to use. The Seller pack and ships to the US address provided by eBay. Once delivered there, the contract between eBay and seller is completed. Any further handling or shipping and the associated costs and fees is a service provided by eBay to their end customer.

Yes, eBay remits the VAT to the appropriate taxing agency in Europe. Just like they remit the sales tax to the buyer's state for buyers in the USA.

Yes, that's how it works. Just like with USA sales tax. Lots of sellers don't like it, but it is how it is. There's no point in getting upset or arguing about it, because eBay is not going to change this.
VAT is due for items that are delivered to shipping addresses in Europe. With the GSP, VAT has always been collected from the buyer as part of the Import Charges, for years. The item is being delivered to the buyer in Europe, so there is VAT.
Vat is due for items delivered to Europe, and beginning this month, eBay is going to be required to collect and remit VAT for all purchases delivered to Europe, whether through GSP or not.
This isn't open for debate, so again, there's no point in arguing about it. Nobody here can change it, and eBay can't change this one either.

lacemaker3 · ‎07-08-2021

Too late to edit:

I forgot that Import Charges and GSP international shipping are not included in calculating the seller's fees. Just the domestic shipping is included.

So, in your scenario 2. the VAT would not be included in calculating the seller's fees. You are correct there.

north40sales · ‎07-08-2021

In your original reply to the OP...

@lacemaker3 wrote:
Too late to edit:

I forgot that Import Charges and GSP international shipping are not included in calculating the seller's fees. Just the domestic shipping is included.

So, in your scenario 2. the VAT would not be included in calculating the seller's fees. You are correct there.

Quoted from your original reply to the OP:

The VAT tax is included in the total payment made by the buyer, so it is included in the total used to calculate the eBay fees for the transaction. The VAT is deducted from the payment before it is sent to the seller's checking account, so the seller never receives the tax. But it's not invisible to the seller, and it affects the calculation of fees, so the amount of the VAT is included in the reports so the seller will know the total payment amount sent by the buyer.

So is the VAT part of the Fee calculation paid by the seller or is it not included like you stated later on?

I only ship in the USA..but there have been several instances where an international buyer has bid and won my item and had it shipped to what I assume is an eBay international shipping terminal. My contract with the buyer ends at delivery of the item in "as-sold" condition to the indicated address. Anything after that is between eBay and their customer who contracted international shipping. In this case, why should I be even connected with the VAT on the item as my part of the contract was completed inside the USA?

lacemaker3 · ‎07-08-2021

@rca-auction

VAT is aways paid by the buyer, not the seller.

If you sell something that is shipped to a shipping address in Europe, then the buyer has to pay the VAT (at the rate for their country) in addition to the purchase price and shipping. In this case, eBay fees are calculated based on the total amount of the payment. The VAT is included in the payment from the buyer, and it is deducted by eBay with the eBay fees, then they deposit the rest of the funds into your bank account. The seller never receives the VAT, but the fees are calculated based on the entire amount of the buyer's payment, including VAT if the buyer paid VAT.

I looked at some of your listings and they only had USA shipping. There was no international shipping available at all, not even the Global Shipping Program. The GSP you mentioned, has to be made available by the seller. The buyer can't just have an item shipped to the GSP, unless the seller put GSP shipping as the international shipping on the listing.

However, I did find some of your listings that do have international shipping, through the GSP. I found 5 listings that were available to Canada (among other countries) and 3 of them are also available to the UK. Some of your items (like knives and bayonets) are prohibited or restricted for sale to some countries (like the UK), so those countries would be blocked from GSP shipping because of that.

If you are shipping through the GSP, then I don't know whether VAT would be included in the reports or not. From the buyer's viewpoint, GSP doesn't break the Import Charges down, so there's no way to know how much was for VAT or sales tax, how much was for customs and duties or other costs.

Unless you ship directly to a shipping address in the EU with VAT, then you won't be affected by the VAT being included in the payment when your fees are calculated.

norskmediashop · ‎07-09-2021

Thank you, that was very helpful and informative. Its a wonder buyers in europe buy anything with all of that added on. But what has caused all this confusion is the ebay rep had told me the seller is now responsible for paying the vat, even after I made it clear that were in the US shipping to Europe. I figured that could not be right....Sometimes we use a shipping service outside of ebay for better service which has worked very well, so the only concern there now would be if the buyer has to pay again to receive the package (as these services are now requiring whats called new Harmonization codes) when they already had paid. Other times we use the ebay standard intl option here in the system.

lacemaker3 · ‎07-09-2021

@norskmediashop wrote:
... But what has caused all this confusion is the ebay rep had told me the seller is now responsible for paying the vat, even after I made it clear that were in the US shipping to Europe. ...

There are a lot of misunderstandings about this. The EU just changed the requirements this month (I think they are going into effect on either July 1 or July 15, 2021). Lots of people are confused. The requirements for the UK were changed on Jan 1, 2021, so there's another possible source of confusion.

Sellers now have to pay eBay fees based on the full payment amount, including shipping and VAT. But, sellers are not responsible for paying the VAT itself.

@norskmediashop wrote:
...Sometimes we use a shipping service outside of ebay for better service which has worked very well, so the only concern there now would be if the buyer has to pay again to receive the package (as these services are now requiring whats called new Harmonization codes) when they already had paid. ...

That could potentially cause a problem. Sometimes, the buyers are asked to pay VAT and/or customs and duties before the post office will deliver, or before the customs office will clear the package. Then, they have to try to provide proof that they have already paid a certain amount of VAT or duties. Unfortunately, if this happens, then there may be brokerage fees added, which they could have to pay, even if the full VAT/duties are proven to have been paid already.

If that happens, the buyer would be understandably annoyed. It might be a good idea to avoid doing that, until you can confirm that it wouldn't cause any problems.

duffy4444 · ‎07-09-2021

The buyer always ends up paying VAT, regardless of the way it is shown and accounted for. The only thing the seller pays is an extra small fee on the VAT calculation, which should be kept in perspective as the fee for Ebay handling all of the collection and remittance to the authorities in the UK and EU, and not putting the burden on sellers.

DO NOT trust Ebay support personnel, which you probably already realized by getting different answers from different CSRs. Ebay CS is in an identity crisis right now, and the rep on the other end of the line usually either does not know the correct answer, or will say anything just to get you off the phone... Sorry, Ebay - you're the one with the CS crisis, not the buyers or sellers using your site. Time to get a grip, your reps educated and talking with one voice, and follow-thru authority and reliability.

Cheers,

Duffy

duffy4444 · ‎07-09-2021

I use stamps.com for shipping, not Ebay's shipping and labeling, so I have experience with your concern about using a different shipping service.

Since UK VAT went into effect in January of this year, I have shipped 5 sales to the UK, and all have been delivered successfully with positive feedback received from the buyer.

The way I handled this is to make sure that in at least one place on the stamps.com shipping label there appears what you refer to as Ebay's "harmonization code" given within the shipping address in the individual sales detail in Seller Hub. I'm not sure if this is handled the same way as EU VAT, as I haven't had any EU sales since the new rules went into effect this month, but I wouldn't be surprised if Ebay handles it the same way as the code for UK VAT.

Cheers,

Duffy

fab_finds4u · ‎07-09-2021

The buyer pays the VAT. If the item is in Global shipping the import tax is paid by the buyer up front, and GSP remits the tax so there are no additional charges at pickup. If the seller is not using GSP to ship then the buyer pays customs, VAT, GST, HST, etc. when they retrieve the package.