Smells & SNAD cases

[autopartspuller]

I have someone who has opened a snad case stating "the item smells like smoke".  I do not smoke.  I also keep my items offsite, so smoking it not an issue with me.

Here is my question.  I never claim smoke free home because 95% of my items are second hand and I could not tell you how they are cared for but, I rarely get this complaint.  So, either I can't smell it on the item or someone at the post office is smoking or the buyer is having buyers remorse.  But it's not happening here.

I see no where in the SNAD that smell is a reason to return an item.  I don't claim smoke free (even though I do not smoke).  It's a vintage item. Scents do happen.  If I notice it, I ALWAYS mention it.

What is Ebay's stance on this?  I offer returns.  She is more than welcome to return it.  I just dont feel it should be at my cost.

Thoughts?

[autopartspuller]

I wish that CS would not lie also.  But, back to the subject at hand.

I did call in the morning.  I certainly got an Indian CS person.  If they are in California or even in this country, I do not know.

I actually whole heartly agree with you guys.  If I smell something, I always say so in the ad.  I personally just prefer not to have to go through this with customers.  The thing is it DIDNT smell.  Or at least I didnt smell anything.  If I honestly thought this was my fault in some way, she would have already been refunded.. defect or not.  I truly believe this is just a buyers remorse.  She mentioned to me in one of her follow up questions that she didnt feel it had to be sent Priority mail and shipping was too high.  She also mentioned the scratches on the bowl (which were mentioned in both the ad and the condition plus, well photographed).  So, I think this was her outlet.  Can I prove that?  No.

Maybe she smells something, I do not.  In the end, that may just be the issue.  Not everyone smells the same smells.  What one person likes another may not.  Smell is SO subjective.  I sell so many items that are older than I am.  So, frankly it could have went through heck and back and I would have no idea. 

So, thank you Bag lady for your help.  I appriciate it!!  I just want to get this taken care of.

[antique.cottage]

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@thebaglady-2016 wrote:

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@chords_and_strings wrote:

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@thebaglady-2016 wrote:

I have been told several times over the years that smell is NOT a supported reason for SNAD. Could you just imagine if it was? Would be havoc.  IF your listing did not say it did NOT smell, you should be able to call and get the case closed in your favor.  Period.  Do NOT let them touch the case until you find someone that can comprehend their "internal" policy.  Do not agree to a return at all on the phone. Get the case closed in your favor, get the defect removed and get the case email saying it is closed IN YOUR FAVOR, WHILE ON THE PHONE.

THEN, deal with your buyer, safe from a neg and any defect.  It will require some persistence to find a rep that knows the policy.

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While I agree that including smell on the list of SNAD-worthy items opens an even bigger can of worms than we deal with already, I don't agree that buyers should be expected to keep items that reek of smoke (or other odors).

Sellers who smoke but don't include that info in auctions for items that will absorb that odor are irresponsible and deserve all the defects they get.  I understand that laundering items usually gets rid of it, but sometimes not, and why should buyers have to go above and beyond to get out an odor they weren't expecting?  And if it's a non-clothing item, cleaning it to remove the odor might ruin it.

Yes, I realize that sellers can't list every single thing about the history of an item, but enough buyers are upset about smoke to know that if you are a smoker, you need to put that in your auction, even if it means fewer sales. 

I don't know what the solution could be, but yes, sellers should be protected against bogus SNAD claims, and buyers shouldn't receive items that stink.

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I agree as well.  But could you just imagine the pile of SNAD's that would come about as a result of just smell?  I was told that if you have something in your listings--ex. smoke free, pet free, odor free, etc., THEN the buyer can claim SNAD for smell, but if you don't, feedback or another lie is your only option.  I agree that smokers should have to state that they smoke, as I detest the smell as well, but I would never SNAD a seller for it. I have sent notes, just as a suggestion and then either hung the item outside, put it in the freezer for a week with kitty litter/baking soda, washed with vinegar, etc.  Most are fixable, but some just are not.

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I get very sick if I receive items that wreak of stale, stinky smoke.   It's disgusting and should be disclosed.   Any foul odor should be disclosed.   IMHO

[missjen831]

People who are *that* sensitive to smells probably shouldn't be buying used item on ebay then. Because what smells to one person may not smell to another. Kind of like how smokers get to used to the smell that they don't even realize bad it stinks. You get used to smells over time and something might not smell but to your neighbor it smells like death. So if you are that sensitive, you should stick to brick and mortar stores where you can smell everything in person.

[vintagecraze50]

In response to the smell issue. Everyone perceives odors as either repulsive , pleasant, or as neutral. This is highly subjective, except, in the case where an item has been sitting in a garbage pail, or does reek of something terribly unpleasant. It has nothing to do with an item as described. There is no Snad policy for this issue and for GOOD REASON, because it could be abused horribly by buyers. Think of it. A person could wash a clothing item with a particular detergent and the buyer could say. "I am repulsed by Tide, and prefer Gain so I am going to file a SNAD because I wanted it to smell like Gain. That's an absurd comment on my part, but, that is exactly what could happen if smell was a reason for a SNAD.

[thebaglady-2016]

makes me think back a few years ago. a woman complained to me that her new Dooney stunk like raw leather. that coveted leather odor--I laughed right out loud while reading that message.....

[autopartspuller]

One last folow up just to let you all know the outcome.

I did attempt to call back a few times prior to the "time period" for communication and basicly got the same response everytime: "you are correct but you need to wait until the time period is up before it can be closed.

So in the end I called back after the time period was up.  They escalated it while on the phone with me and closed it in my favor before I got off the phone.

They did confirm that smell is not a reason for a SNAD with a vintage item and is considered a buyers remorse, unless the item is labeled as "new" or is specificly marked with a smoke free/scent free.

he also confirmed that they are no longer able to close the case prior to the time period because they want the seller to work it out with the buyer, if they can, even if the buyer opened the case wrong.

Thank you all again for all your help.

[ilovemycows]

Do you know where in their "internal policy" it states about the smell issue and snads? I am in the middle of a smell snad and I was told what you said but then told to call back in 5 days. This was all before reading this blog. I would like to have more info to back me up in case the next person isn't informed. I know now that they should have closed the case right then and there.

[savanna.dance]

@ilovemycows
This thread is almost a year old, in that time, I have seen buyers win SNAD cases based on smoke smell, one in particular was a computer. Buyers can also leave less than positive feedback re:.smoke smell, that won't be removable unless you win the case.

[zcmi11]

This thread originated when SNAD= defect. 

A lot has changed since then http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/news/fallupdate2015/seller-standards.html

[savanna.dance]

I have a feeling Z, that this isn't about a defect, but the seller not wanting to take a return, based on smoke.

Indeed, eBay made the seller of that computer take the item back and refund the buyer, based on smoke smell.

[carlmarxx]

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@zcmi11 wrote:

This thread originated when SNAD= defect. 

A lot has changed since then http://pages.ebay.com/sellerinformation/news/fallupdate2015/seller-standards.html

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If seller said item is from a smoke free place .  And it smelled of smoke then it could be a snad  under the old Ceo  ! Not now  and is a  long shot  Now . Since  item package is handle by carriers   that do have smoker's  SO  No snad .

[dgw66]

I've been reading this exchange as I am a smoker, I drink and I also have a dog.  I take great care with clothing items and wash them and keep them in a smoke free room fabreze them and wrap them quickly.  I have sold 2000 items and had 4/5 complaints = very strong "items wreaks" "stinks of smoke"  "stinks and is offensive to me for religious purposes".  My clothes are second hand and I only sell good clean items.  But a jacket can be worn out, down the pub and I socialise with friends that smoke.  I feel that if someone finds smoke smells offensive or is an ex smoker and finds the faintest smell of smoke offensive then they should ask the seller if it is smoke free household being buying or not buy second hand items from ebay at all.  And I don't understand why anyone would not immediately wash something bought on ebay which will resolve any issues or have an item such as a jacket or coat dry cleaned.  If the seller did this on their behalf it would be an extra tenner and then it could still have the faintest hint of a smell .... I smile when I get items and call it the ebay smell - combination of fabreze, tissue paper and grey plastic bags.  I often think that maybe this contributes to the "smell.  Anyway, what's wrong with people on ebay now?  If you pay less than a tenner for a decent item and save shedloads isn't it give and take?  I am not selling anything brand new and not a retailer.  I am just selling good second hand clobber to buy new good hand second clobber.  You win some you lose some.

[pargran3]

OMG. Fabreeze! Cough. Gag.

Gain detergent, any detergent for that matter, fabric softeners, Fabreeze and other "pleasant" stenches.

The point has been made. One person's can't stand it smell is anothers gee that smells nice.

Cigarette smoke smell, mildew and musty basement are off odors. The seller has little control over an item arriving smelling of cigarette smoke. USPS workers can smoke in their vehicles. There is no excuse for it starting out that way.

I always have to laugh when I see vintage items listed from a pet free, smoke free etc. home. The seller's home may be but I doubt if the seller knows that 60 year old item has always lived in such a home!

If you are so sensitive to odors that an off odor can literally make you ill you should not be making purchases online from whatever the source.

Poly mailers make me gag, but that is temporary. It airs out. 

[southern*sweet*tea]

Two and a  half year old necrothread.

I guess old smells never die...

[green-night]

I've been reading this exchange as I am a smoker, I drink and I also have a dog.

Someone here just found their soulmate.