Returning items, selling and having eBay step in

[esdcah]

Hello,

I purchased a used Fluke 79 Multimeter for  $89.99 and $19.99 for the shipping. It's still in the process of being delivered. The auction has an eBay 14 day return policy.

What happened is I was on EEVBlog forum site discussing electronic repairs and also the Fluke 79 (recently puchased via buy-it-now)  and was told for the type of electronic repairs I need to perform that the Fluke 79 doesn't have neccsary features.  I would need for example a Fuke 87, which come in versions I though V. Many of the Version 1 and some of the II and II are less than what I paid for the Fluke 79 with shipping.  Version V the most recent and popular version is more expensive than earlier versions and  found one for $150.00 (shipping included). I needed to puchase a rubber protective case that Flukes usually come with for another $25.00 = $175.00 total.

Ok so I contacted the seller about returning the Fluke 79 (refund would be auction price excluding the $19.99 for shipping.) and he replied that he has overhead such as warehouse / storage and packing fees (apparently pays a person or persons to perform packing of items)

I told him that I may be willing to accept a partial refund to cover any seller expenses and fees.

He wrote back with a $40.00 refund offer then wrote again with a $60.00 refund offer. I wrote back stating after thinking it over that I would only accept a full refund minus shipping and that I couldn't be held responsible for a sellers busniness expenses.

I've been a eBay member as both a buyer and seller since the 1990s and have one hundred percent feedback. I told him as a seller I too have needed to pay addtional while selling items and for my self it's just the cost of doing business.

e.g. I've sold items where the eBay auction calculator was off by $25.00 (less) than actualy UPS shipping cost. (eBay's auction calculator isn't always very accurate) I just chocked it up as a sellers business expensive along with eBay and Paypal fees, packing material, fuel to deliver packages to drop off centers, etc. (UPS and Fedex are over 30 miles away, cost for a pickup is at least $12.00)

Anyway I'm wondering about eBay's 14 day return policy and if the seller has a choice to either refuse a return or make a return conditional for the provided reason such as changed mind, didn't need item, etc.

The USPS tracking shows the Fluke 79 was Delivered on Thursday, Dec 20, 2018 to my PO Box, which I haven't yet picked it up.

What I was planning on doing is to refuse delivery where upon USPS will return it back to the return address on the shipping label at not cost.

The seller when offered a partial refund of $60.00 did include a return address but I'm uncertain if it's the same as what's on the shipping label.

At this point in time I'm not able to ask eBay to step in until the 25th (next tuesday) as I've decided to let eBay make a decision about the return and item refund.

If not able to get a full refund (- minus shipping) I'll probably put the Fluke 79 up for auction  as I already have an older Fluke 75 as a backup meter.

However I'm wondering what options does the seller have when  there is an unconditional 14 day return for an auction? I don't see any conditions that are required to perform a return and refund. Such as for DOA, item not as described, etc.

As a seller If I don't want an item returned what I usually do is list it AS-IS / no returns or include a condtion returns only if DOA or not as described, etc. But even then I'm fairly resonable and will allow buyers to return items. I often have 30 and longer day returns and make it very easy for a buyer to return an item without worrying about the reason for the return. (which often are mulitple reaons)

[esdcah]

I'm not refusing any package. The seller provided an alternate return name and address in another city, which I will use.

I've never actually refused a package or even said the words "I need to refuse package" what I've done is asked the post office to return the package to the sender. If unopened USPS sends the package back to the sender.

UPS a little different you could refuse a package or you can place a package on hold for pickup at a local UPS station. If not picked up within 5 business days the package with be returned to sender and there no actual refusing the package.

Most everytime I've returned a ebay package to the sender I created a return and most times I've used the return postage label (amount deducted from my PalPal account)  Othertimes if a package wasn't opened I didn't see any reason to repackage and relable the package paying addtional post as my Post Master said I didn't need to that USPS would return the package to the sender.

There was one time I remember the seller didn't want me to create a return so I just returned the package without opening a return and was refunded. Most eBay sellers I've dealt with (including myself) have no problems accepting returns as it just part job,  processes of being an eBay seller.

Personally I don't think it matters if a package is delived  return to sender or paid postage. It's nearly the same and as I stated never has it taken any longer for a package to be returned to sender than it took or originally ship the item to the buyer.

However I'm willing to abide with eBays policy and the MBG which I've never actually used when opening a return. All my returns the seller just refunded me the money less the original shipping charges.

Any carrier service I have first write or call them and asked about their return to sender policy and if there are any fees involved for either the buyer or seller. I woundn't  ever return an item to the sender if the seller would be charged.

Since the 1990s I've had few returns and normally even if somethings wrong or not quite right with an item don't return them. Sometimes the cost to ship an item back is nearly the same or more than puchasing a new one.

[creoleorchid]

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@esdcah wrote:

I'm not refusing any package. The seller provided an alternate return name and address in another city, which I will use.

That could be a problem for you. You do know that you need to do this through the resolution center and have the tracking number uploaded?

I've never actually refused a package or even said the words "I need to refuse package" what I've done is asked the post office to return the package to the sender. If unopened USPS sends the package back to the sender. 

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That’s the same thing as far as this is concerned.. If You do this, you have no recourse to get eBay to force a refund. 

You’re making this way too complicated and putting yourself at risk to lose the whole payment.

[creoleorchid]

“At this point in time I'm not able to ask eBay to step in until the 25th (next tuesday) as I've decided to let eBay make a decision about the return and item refund.“

I just noticed this part. I assume that means you’ve already opened a return request. No one at eBay is going to “make a decision”. Since the seller had a 14 day return policy, I’m surprised it wasn’t automatically accepted by the system. Just escalate on the 25th, retrieve the package and pay for a new label. The old one will not get you your money back because tracking will show “refused” and you will lose. 

[misfitfun]

Carrier return package policies are immaterial just ebays.If  refused seller can contest the return

[sam9876]

 "The seller provided an alternate return name and address in another city, which I will use."

If you ship to that alternate address, you will probably not get a refund.  You need to start the return through eBay and only ship to the return address that eBay gives you.

"I've never actually refused a package or even said the words "I need to refuse package" what I've done is asked the post office to return the package to the sender. If unopened USPS sends the package back to the sender."

That is refusing the package.

[esdcah]

Ok, thanks for the information about the return address. In the return details the seller provided a return address to ebay with a different name, state and city than the return address on the packaged delived.

Package delivered return address: Arlington TX

Return address provided to eBay by seller: La puente CA

I opened the package to see what I received and it appears to be a well used Fluke 79 III. The yellow rubber protector is dirtier what depicted in the two auction pics.

I paid a little over average price when compared to eBay avaiable "sold" history where sales of Fluke 79 III range from ~$50.00 to $190.00 (shipping included)

 The average of 17 sold units is $97.76 so I only paid $12.22 above the average of eBays sold units. There are some cleaner units with extras that sold for less than the average.

Mine didn't come with a Fluke soft case that's worth an addtional ~$20-$25.00+.

I've haven't decided whether to keep  or return . I will make a  decision around the 25th. The Fluke 79 tested ok, could not find anything wrong and seems to be in good working condtion. It does have a larger display than my 75 and the specs are  better.

[esdcah]

I think I'm just going to close (cancel) the return.

I made the mistake of first contacting the seller about a return instead of first starting a return of which you write your reason and other deails why you need to return an item. The seller then responds  to eBay.

When I finally did open a return I had already been in contact with the seller who offered a $60.00 refund. I wrote back and told him that wasn't enough and I decided I wanted a full refund. The  seller never wrote back.

So the refund amount is unclear if returned to the return address  provided the seller to ebay (the ret. add provided is in a different state than the packages return address.

The seller, an eBay member since Sept. 11th, 2017 has only 19 positive feedbacks, no neutral or negative.  

Mostly don't want a  hassel. Perhaps an honest seller but didn't offer a reasonable partial return amount  and not very good at comunicating.

 Note: from the Return Details there are no options to commuicate with ebay or ask ebay to step in.

[creoleorchid]

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@esdcah wrote:

I think I'm just going to close (cancel) the return.

I made the mistake of first contacting the seller about a return instead of first starting a return of which you write your reason and other deails why you need to return an item. The seller then responds  to eBay.

When I finally did open a return I had already been in contact with the seller who offered a $60.00 refund. I wrote back and told him that wasn't enough and I decided I wanted a full refund. The  seller never wrote back.

So the refund amount is unclear if returned to the return address  provided the seller to ebay (the ret. add provided is in a different state than the packages return address.

The seller, an eBay member since Sept. 11th, 2017 has only 19 positive feedbacks, no neutral or negative.  

Mostly don't want a  hassel. Perhaps an honest seller but didn't offer a reasonable partial return amount  and not very good at comunicating.

 Note: from the Return Details there are no options to commuicate with ebay or ask ebay to step in.

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That option will not be there until the 25th.

[em9219]

The return request communicated that you will receive a full refund including original shipping, a prepaid return label to the address shown on the returns page, and the date after which the button will appear for you to ask eBay to step in.

eBay is the better communicator.

[esdcah]

There was no prepaid shipping lable on the returns details. Only the return shipping address and instruction to create my own shipping label from what ever carrier I chose.

 Returns detail:

Sellers return information

and

Next steps

1. Buy a return label from your preferred shipping carrier.

2. Send the item, and add tracking details or mark it as sent by Dec 28.3. You should get a refund within 2 business days of delivery.4. If you don't send the item, we might close your return and you might not receive a refund.

[esdcah]

There is no  date  and  "Ask eBay to step in"

[buyselljack2016]

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@em9219 wrote:

The return request communicated that you will receive a full refund including original shipping, a prepaid return label to the address shown on the returns page, and the date after which the button will appear for you to ask eBay to step in.

eBay is the better communicator.

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This info is incorrect as applied to this case.

This is a remorse return. Buyer pays for return label if he so chooses to follow through with a return.

There is no "step in" by eBay.   The return is approved as the seller has a 14 day return policy for the item. He either returns the item, or does not.

[kateinthe26th]

Opening poster admits to returning tons of stuff and reminds me of my cousin who does not think before she buys then spends the following day returning most everything, it's a pattern and a bad habit which is compounded with the MYTH of free shipping

I think he /she forgets that ebay is NOT Amazon and Prime is NOT a 'thing' here.

i'm usually on the buyers side when i read these boards but not today.....today i feel bad for opening posters seller and having to deal with a nighmare inconsiderate buyer who has buyers remorse and wants to return for free

one to block for sure

[esdcah]

Like I sais I've been a member of eBay since the 1990s and have puchased hundreds of items of which very few have ever been returned.

I puchased the Fluke 79 III to upgrade from a Fluke 75 I've used for many years and also puchased from an eBay seller who owns an  established pawn shop.

I've closed the Fluke  79 III return and didn't initailly  open the return remorsfully. Some sellers don't really care if you return items as long as it's in the same condition as when shipped and that return postage is paid.

Since the seller was reluctant about the return, after thinking it over I decided to keep the dmm and either use it as a backup of a Fluke 87-V recently purchased from eBay or perhaps clean it up and sell it.

It was very dirty and needed cleaning as well as some of the buttons didn't work until I opened it up and cleaned the fuction buttons contacts.

I've return a few items out of hundreds and never have had any problems returning items. Most sellers I've dealt with are happy to accept a return.

I first had an Internet accout back in 1981 and begain buying and selling things over the internet  in the mid 80s around 1985.

Before PC's existed we use to use dumb terminals connected to Vax mainframes running Unix. Those were the days when we use to use punch cards to communicate with the large mainframes to peform various functions.

[princess_phones]

@esdcah wrote:

I've return a few items out of hundreds and never have had any problems returning items. Most sellers I've dealt with are happy to accept a return.

I can’t imagine ANY seller who is as delighted as you describe to be happy to accept a return. You are costing them money and time to do a return, your perceived notion of their happiness is them gritting their teeth because they don’t want negative feedback.

They aren’t Home Depot, they aren’t Walmart, most of the people you are asking for a return are individuals trying to supplement their income to support their family. They offer the return to give security to potential buyers and that is a great thing, but you seem to think buyer’s remorse should have warranted opening a case against them for SNAD. 

I am really glad you decided against it, when you buy make sure to ask questions if you aren’t sure it’s exactly what you want or need. I know you’ve been on the internet forever, but you can always learn something new, and please consider who you are buying from. No company, no matter if it’s a Fortune 500 or a single parent trying to make ends meet wants to lose money on returns, even if they seem “happy” to accept your buyer’s remorse. Simply do as you did this time, accept the mistake and use it, resell it or donate it.