I learned an expensive lesson in shipping large items on eBay (don't do it!)

[enumsushi]

tl:dr; I learned the hard way that you don't sell on eBay unless you're willing to lose both the item and any amount spent on shipping. Do I get a seller's achievement? 😃

I was having difficulty selling a large SKB server case locally and opened it up to shipping domestically (my first mistake) on eBay thinking that "no returns" would help protect me from buyer's remorse. Well turns out "no returns" is just a suggestion and doesn't mean anything. Buyer received the case then a few days later initiated a return as the case apparently arrived with a broken latch (of course it was there when I shipped it). UPS denied the damage claim because the case wasn't in packaging which is bonkers because the case itself is the packaging-- you literally don't put them in cardboard boxes, you ship as-is. Also those cases are tough, it's amazing UPS managed to break a latch on one but I guess anything's possible.

I reached out to eBay support as soon as I could after the customer initiated the return to get assistance as shipping in the first place almost really made the whole effort not financially viable. I was told I "would be taken care of" and to offer the buyer a partial refund and to wait out 3 days so the "resolution department" could step in and help. Of course the buyer didn't respond and waited out the clock on their own end.

During that period I found out that if you buy shipping through eBay instead of your own UPS account you can't make direct claims with UPS. You have to email ebayclaiminformation@ups.com a filled out form eBay provides, ask the buyer for their email and phone number (ebay won't provide it) and a bunch of photos, and then send it out to UPS to never get a response from them until you call a week+ later to find out they denied the claim (and didn't bother telling you). A truly bad process so the last time I buy postage through eBay.

It was suggested, again by eBay CSR, that I go to eBay appeals and there it was the worst as they effectively ignored the support thread details and instead told me to "have an open communication to your buyer and provide a return label for them to return the item or agree with another resolution. We believe that kind and courteous communication always lead to a satisfying resolution with your trading partner."  (Btw is it just me or do all eBay CSR communications read like a weird patronizing Markov Chain sequence?)

Long story short the buyer got all their money back, I'm out the shipping cost, eBay fees, and either I pay for return shipping (exceedingly expensive) or the buyer keeps the case. I know now after reading some of these forums that everything I've done was likely the wrong move and that you shouldn't sell anything on eBay without expecting to lose the item and any money on shipping+fees towards it. But I'm mostly frustrated that eBay themselves will guide you along those same paths while pretending you'll be "taken care of" by "seller's protection". I had a positive impression of selling on eBay before but this just sucked.

[titipeo]

Sorry to hear, but that pretty much sums it up. As for the server case, you need to determine if its worth it getting back, considering shipping cost, and the damage aspect. However, reading that the buyer has been made whole, do you think they will send the case? They have nothing to loose.

Sad part is that eBay sellers protection is minimal, in comparison to buyers protection. Their customer service likes to talk a lot, but not always stand behind what they say. 

[duncanvr]

I've seen countless sellers offering no returns thinking they are protected from returns but they are not as buyer always win. I would avoid selling large items they are always hard to ship. I am glad I sell vintage small paper collectible items so easy to ship. Always offer a return policy the best one is 30 days buyer pays return shipping. At least then your not losing more on the return shipping and it can sometimes deter a buyer opening a return if they have to pay to send it back.

[whattheactualfox]

I agree with @titipeo on that. I do not know how much it costs to ship that, but if the shipping costs too much, or you do not want to go through the trouble of shipping/inspection. Then I would let the buyer keep the item

>UPS denied the damage claim because the case wasn't in packaging which is bonkers because the case itself is the packaging-- you literally don't put them in cardboard boxes, you ship as-is. 

>the case wasn't in packaging

I know UPS has some guidelines for how things need to be packaged, so I can see why they said no. And I hate to be rude, but why did you not package it? Yes, I can understand that it is the casing, but still, packages can be damaged, and I would rather have a broken package with an intact item than a broken item. So I would have packaged/bubble-wrapped. It may have added some extra weight, but I would be safe at mind knowing that I did what I can to protect it.

And the big thing to know is: You must package the item according to UPS guidelines. In the event, the item was damaged and you followed their shipping guidelines, there is a very good chance you are covered.

So in my verdict, I feel as if there was more that could have been done to prevent this. You will have to take a loss one way or another as @titipeo implies. I do hope you take my advice for the future, as too many returns can be bad.

[fashunu4eeuh · Accepted solution]

It is better to have a return policy to avoid bogus claims being opened to force a return in a No Returns seller. However, in this case, there was damage, so there was no avoiding the claim. Ebay holds sellers responsible for anything that happens in transit, including delayed mail. 

At least it sounds like your buyer cooperated with the process. Ebay does not require them to provide pictures, or proof of damage, or otherwise help with insurance claims. Sorry you were not made whole too by insurance, and that you had to learn the ins and outs in trial by fire.

It is most frustrating that eBay customer service is known to give out bad (and sometimes harmful) advice.

[whattheactualfox]

This is good advice. 

I know that buyers have a 99.99% chance of getting a refund when they select the "Item Not As Described" (aka INAD) as other return reasons fall into a grievance return reason and the seller can decline the return (cue CC chargebacks/bank disputes lol)

Quoting eBay Below:

Sellers who offer free returns and who are not Below Standard are eligible for this protection

• You can deduct up to 50% from the refund to recover the lost value of the item
• We will take care of any issues directly with the buyer for you, including removing any negative and neutral feedback, defects, and open cases in service metrics

So OP is protected if they offer FREE returns (Seller Pays Shipping)

[enumsushi]

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@whattheactualfox wrote:

>UPS denied the damage claim because the case wasn't in packaging which is bonkers because the case itself is the packaging-- you literally don't put them in cardboard boxes, you ship as-is. 

>the case wasn't in packaging

I know UPS has some guidelines for how things need to be packaged, so I can see why they said no. And I hate to be rude, but why did you not package it? Yes, I can understand that it is the casing, but still, packages can be damaged, and I would rather have a broken package with an intact item than a broken item. So I would have packaged/bubble-wrapped.

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Yes, that's how I handle all other items I've ever sold on eBay. This product however had previously been used fully-loaded to ship computer servers globally, these things are beasts and designed to ship as-is so I disagree with the insinuation I had improperly mailed the item. Practically, packaging a 42"x28"x28" 95lb/42kg case in bubble wrap and cardboard wasn't something I was outfitted to do, maybe if I had a leftover oven/refrigerator box but alas I didn't. But in hindsight obviously you're correct in that I should have packaged the case especially given what I now know about UPS's (and presumably FedEx's and USPS's) policy on handling damage claims. And if I had known that I should have packaged it for those reasons I probably wouldn't have mailed it for all the other reasons I now know. 😃

[enumsushi]

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@whattheactualfox wrote:

Sellers who offer free returns and who are not Below Standard are eligible for this protection

• You can deduct up to 50% from the refund to recover the lost value of the item
• We will take care of any issues directly with the buyer for you, including removing any negative and neutral feedback, defects, and open cases in service metrics

So OP is protected if they offer FREE returns (Seller Pays Shipping)

---

Thanks, I wasn't really aware of this. Normally I do allow for returns but haven't yet had to deal with one as I'm just super-low volume and normally deal with niche items. However my other lesson here is to assume everyone is used to the Amazon culture of return anything for any reason so going forward that seems like something I should look more into.

[kensgiftshop]

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@enumsushi wrote:

Long story short the buyer got all their money back, I'm out the shipping cost, eBay fees, and either I pay for return shipping (exceedingly expensive) or the buyer keeps the case.

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You also got a defect on your account when you got Ebay involved in the treturn.

[enumsushi]

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@kensgiftshop wrote:

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@enumsushi wrote:

Long story short the buyer got all their money back, I'm out the shipping cost, eBay fees, and either I pay for return shipping (exceedingly expensive) or the buyer keeps the case.

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You also got a defect on your account when you got Ebay involved in the treturn.

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Is that something I can see on the account or is that an eBay internal defect?

[wastingtime101]

You can see your defect rate on your Seller Dashboard. The defect section updates once a week.

[beautyproducts4muchless]

If you aren't selling enough merch to be able to take several hundred dollar hits and/or several thousand dollar hits, w/out blinking an eye, then it's probably not for you imho. I just had a $1.1k video editing deck arrive completely demolished, even though I packaged it up better than anything I've ever sent. Oh well, have to eat it, from what it looks like. I just focus on doing enough volume with high enough ASP (which in turn means higher profit margins) to where it doesn't phase me like it used to. Sucks, but this type of stuff weeds out the ones that are gonna last and those that aren't. I'm not saying you aren't gonna last, but this is part of the game and has to be taken in stride imho, otherwise the consequences can be hectic.

[kh-vince]

Hi everyone,

Due to the age of this thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

Thank you for understanding.