Discussion about shipping & fees, please.

[cowgalpal]

Howdy.  I'm cowgalpal, a seller of many years, and would like a discussion place to talk about the new %fee for shipping, the odd skews of the Top Seller discount to exactly match what the site's price stated, and the missed opportunity for Sellers to refund Buyers any overage.  

I don't want to rant - I just want to start a discussion about this 'ship gouging' policy that seems to use the same tactic by charging everyone for a few's mis-takes.

Thanks.  Hope to begin a good thing.  If individuals can be calculated by feedback stars, surely there can be a way to discern the 'gougers' too, and not punish everyone.  

[cowgalpal]

Hi, posting master, and thanks for poppin' in.

I love that we can now print a 1st Class label at over the old-standard 13 oz., up to 16 oz., and list the item at 1st Class because of that.  It is NOT available outside a website, such as eBay, paperbackswap.com, etc.; it is not available at a Post Office by taking the item in.  That rate remains at a 13 oz. limit.  But why does a 1st Class listing say a Priority rate on the Seller's Print Label page, only to say oh look! - we discounted it to the stated 1st Class" amount?  And skew the %'age to make it so?  

The listing didn't say 6.45 s/h, it said 3.45.  And that DOES come into the Buyer's decision for we Sellers.  Only the Seller Print Label said "you might have paid" 6.45, but that is a Priority rate, not a 1st class one.  What is the point?  A first class envelope, under 16 oz. even, would never cost $6.45, even from Ohio to California.  

[muttlymob]

The question is -- why does eBay take 10% of monies that are not theirs in the first place?  If it belongs to anyone, it would be the Post Office.  eBay is simply a 'middle man' in linking the post office to their site.

eBay takes a final value fee on the selling price - that's not eBay's money either.  It belongs to the seller, eBay is simply a "middle man" linking the seller to the buyer.

So what makes the FVF on shipping charge any different?

[posting*master]

$6.45 is plugged in as a substitute for First Class postage over 13 ounces in any context where the retail rate would be show,.

Not only in listings, but also in that shipping label section that shows your "eBay discount."  Because  if you took that package to the retail counter (where the weight limit is 13 ounces) you'd be paying for Priority Mail and that's the basis for the "eBay discount."  For First Class packages up to 13 ounces, eBay can compare their own rate to the retail First Class rate; but for weights above 13 ounces there is no retail first class package rate.

[cowgalpal]

Wow, that's some math!  Of course the 10% final value fee does not belong to the Seller; it belongs to eBay, and rightfully so.  Overhead is a matter of course for any business, and it's a good price to pay.  Obviously, with a touted 'over a million sellers worldwide," people use it for that reason. 

The question is what comes of the 10% fee charged on the stated shipping amount, when the eBay site does nothing different in facilitating printing a label?  You can use the PayPal site to print it too, if you choose, and there's no fee for that.  The amount is also rounded up to the next even decimal, i.e., a 1st Class amount of 3.65 would be a .36¢ fee, right?  But it rounds up to the next even decimal,' .40¢.  Hey - who's gonna quibble about .04¢?  But -- if you take that same .04¢, and multiply it by the One Million Sellers worldwide, you come up with $40,000.  Who gets that forty thousand dollars?

[cowgalpal]

Thanks.  And I'll explain that to my Buyers if I have something over .13 oz.  It's pretty nebulous, if you ask me, and not much different than 'figuring in' your cost of gas and mileage to carry a package off.  Tuh.

One might as well just as for Priority over 13 oz, and let it be, for all the calculations that are done in the background to make a Seller feel like they got some deal.

Not to mention that added-up forty thousand dollars calculated in the reply below.

And no one has said yet where that fee goes.  Does the Post Office get it?  That would be the right thing.  Money for nothing, as the old song goes.

Nice work if you can get it.

[muttlymob]

The question is what comes of the 10% fee charged on the stated shipping amount, when the eBay site does nothing different in facilitating printing a label?

That fee goes the same place as any other fee that eBay charges. 

The final value fee on the shipping charge has nothing to do with printing labels through eBay.  It is based on what the seller charges the buyer for S&H, and it is levied no matter how a seller pays for postage.

[fern*wood]

Well, my guess that the fvf on shipping goes to the same place that all other fees goes---to ebay to run this site and give them a profit.

4

That fee is charged on the shipping cost whether you print on ebay, paypal, or take it the post office.

If you wish to leave your settings to charge retail rates to your customers, as I do, there is an easy solution for your listings over 13oz and below 16oz.  I merely don't offer calculated on those (since retail rates do not support 1st class in this range) and input a flat rate for the appropriate cost. 

[bfpierce9]

Why would anyone want to discuss fees with a very active seller who's paid a shipping FVF for five years without noticing? And then corrects people who tell her it isn't new, even giving links?

[cowgalpal]

Yes, of course.  It's a fee, charged.  No matter if you print the label or carry the package in.  That's still not the point.  Why is there an additional fee is the question, when nothing is done for it, and where exactly does it go?  And "it goes to the same place" as the FV fee relies on the same illogic as the invisible explanation for  a lot of calculations that mean nothing, only to end up with what you charged in the first place.  Why bother with all the Wow! dancing around what you Might Have Paid!~!?  But for this amazing discount we have granted?!   Pfff.  Right. 

It's just ridiculous, and a very roundabout way of doing absolutely nothing but charging a fee for not doing anything. 

But if no one asks, why change??!!  Or even notice, for that matter.

I (w)rest my case.

[cowgalpal]

Thanks, Ferns* -- I'll try that.  At least it would eliminate a lotta fol-de-roll.

Which was kinda my question in the first place!

I'll do some tweakin' - tx again.

[phcd1]

---

@cowgalpal wrote:

Howdy, Fern* ..

The 10% of the shipping amount stated is not a couple years old; it's new.  Since about Spring of this year or so.

If there is a way to 'build' fees into your items, I guess I'd like to know how to do that, while still making the endeavor profitable for both parties.  

---

Uh. you add 10% of the shipping charge to the price of the item. I can't believe this has 24 responses. 

[usmc*usnmom]

Member since: Nov-30-99

::sigh::

[phcd1]

---

@cowgalpal wrote:

...  Why is there an additional fee is the question, when nothing is done for it, and where exactly does it go?  ...

---

Ebay charges fee's for a lot of things and does nothing for it. Many sellers gets charged fee's and never sell a thing.

BECAUSE THEY CAN and it goes to EBAY.

[quiltgeek]

You are ranting. You have consistently refused to consider what the responders are telling you.

The "new"  FVF on shipping is not new. eBay has charged sellers 10% of the buyer's payment since the FVF change was announced in 2011. That's 5 years ago. Do you read eBay's Spring and Fall announcements?

Sellers charge a cost for shipping and handling in their listings. Shipping/handling is NOT required to be only the amount the shipping costs. There is no overage to refund since by bidding/BINing/making an offer, the potential buyer is accepting the costs in the listing.

DSRs no linger define a seller's status with eBay. DSRs, along with feedback evaluation, are no longer used by ebay to judge sellers. Did you miss that announcement too?

If by 'gougers' you mean the unethical sellers that rolled their sales price into the shipping to avoid paying ebay's FVF, ebay decided many years ago to solve that Fee Avoidance problem by simply charging the FVF on the buyer's payment, not the winning price. At the same time, eBay redefined how Insertion fees are defined. For most sellers, these two sets of changes meant there was little change to their selling costs.

Practical sellers figure out what items to sell and how to price them to make a profit. You can too. However, if you would rather brood about a policy that's been in place for 5 years, go ahead. 

[muttlymob]

 And "it goes to the same place" as the FV fee relies on the same illogic as the invisible explanation for  a lot of calculations that mean nothing, only to end up with what you charged in the first place.

Illogic?

Those calculations mean nothing only to someone who lacks basic knowledge of both math and the USPS rate structures.

eBay charges a fee.  eBay keeps that fee.  Where else would it go but into eBay's accounts?

Which is more illogical, trying to justify your faulty arguments, or your inability to understand the explanations that your arguments are faulty?