Why is Paypal and Ebay allowing customers to use credit card chargebacks to get items for free??

[heatheralec]

I don't understand how it is legal for a customer to keep an item they purchased and then file a credit card dispute and get their money back?  Why is this not covered under seller protection?  I am not a big seller, but I have been selling for 10 years on Ebay.  I had a customer who wished to return an item because it didn't fit with what she wanted.  I told her she could return it, however since there was nothing wrong with it, she would have to pay for the return shipping.  3 weeks later, she files a credit card dispute.  I just got a note from Paypal saying the amount was deducted from my account along with a $20 fee.  So now I am out the $60 item, the shipping I paid, ($25.00) AND the $20 fee, AND the item.  Wonderful to know, that customers can just click one thing on their credit card menu, and "Poof" get their money back and keep item, "YAY"!  Is there anyway for a seller to report a customer for credit card fraud???  This effects ALL sellers, so it would be nice to have some recourse here.

[dtexley3]

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@heatheralec wrote:

I don't understand how it is legal for a customer to keep an item they purchased and then file a credit card dispute and get their money back?  Why is this not covered under seller protection?  I am not a big seller, but I have been selling for 10 years on Ebay.  I had a customer who wished to return an item because it didn't fit with what she wanted.  I told her she could return it, however since there was nothing wrong with it, she would have to pay for the return shipping.  3 weeks later, she files a credit card dispute.  I just got a note from Paypal saying the amount was deducted from my account along with a $20 fee.  So now I am out the $60 item, the shipping I paid, ($25.00) AND the $20 fee, AND the item.  Wonderful to know, that customers can just click one thing on their credit card menu, and "Poof" get their money back and keep item, "YAY"!  Is there anyway for a seller to report a customer for credit card fraud???  This effects ALL sellers, so it would be nice to have some recourse here.

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You didn't follow the process for chargebacks on paypal.  You upload the tracking information that shows you shipped the item and paypal handles the issue directly.  If a chargeback occurs it's covered under paypal's seller protection and you should not be charged.  If you still have the tracking info open an appeal on paypal.

[heatheralec]

There was no option for this.  Paypal only asked me to expain what happend, there was no place for tracking.

[couldabeenworse]

Chargebacks are decided by the credit card company; PayPal and eBay have no say in the outcome.  If they "protect" the seller, it means eBay or PayPal pays the chargeback out of their own pocket.  They are willing to do so only in limited circumstances - when a buyer falsely claims item as not received or that he did not make the purchase.  Trying to protect sellers from Not As Described chargebacks would open a huge can of worms that neither eBay nor PayPal wishes to deal with.

[missjen831]

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@dtexley3 wrote:

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@heatheralec wrote:

I don't understand how it is legal for a customer to keep an item they purchased and then file a credit card dispute and get their money back?  Why is this not covered under seller protection?  I am not a big seller, but I have been selling for 10 years on Ebay.  I had a customer who wished to return an item because it didn't fit with what she wanted.  I told her she could return it, however since there was nothing wrong with it, she would have to pay for the return shipping.  3 weeks later, she files a credit card dispute.  I just got a note from Paypal saying the amount was deducted from my account along with a $20 fee.  So now I am out the $60 item, the shipping I paid, ($25.00) AND the $20 fee, AND the item.  Wonderful to know, that customers can just click one thing on their credit card menu, and "Poof" get their money back and keep item, "YAY"!  Is there anyway for a seller to report a customer for credit card fraud???  This effects ALL sellers, so it would be nice to have some recourse here.

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You didn't follow the process for chargebacks on paypal.  You upload the tracking information that shows you shipped the item and paypal handles the issue directly.  If a chargeback occurs it's covered under paypal's seller protection and you should not be charged.  If you still have the tracking info open an appeal on paypal.

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That’s only for INR and unauthorized use chargebacks. 

For SNADS which is what this was....there is no seller protection. Uploading tracking wouldn’t have helped and there is nothing to appeal.

[dtexley3]

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@heatheralec wrote:

There was no option for this.  Paypal only asked me to expain what happend, there was no place for tracking.

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Read the PayPal seller protection terms regarding chargebacks.  Call and open an appeal and point them to their own terms.  As long as you have proof the item was shipped it's covered.  Chargebacks happen all the time and as long as the required proof of shipment is provided you are supposed to be covered.

[southern*sweet*tea]

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@dtexley3 wrote:

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@heatheralec wrote:

I don't understand how it is legal for a customer to keep an item they purchased and then file a credit card dispute and get their money back?  Why is this not covered under seller protection?  I am not a big seller, but I have been selling for 10 years on Ebay.  I had a customer who wished to return an item because it didn't fit with what she wanted.  I told her she could return it, however since there was nothing wrong with it, she would have to pay for the return shipping.  3 weeks later, she files a credit card dispute.  I just got a note from Paypal saying the amount was deducted from my account along with a $20 fee.  So now I am out the $60 item, the shipping I paid, ($25.00) AND the $20 fee, AND the item.  Wonderful to know, that customers can just click one thing on their credit card menu, and "Poof" get their money back and keep item, "YAY"!  Is there anyway for a seller to report a customer for credit card fraud???  This effects ALL sellers, so it would be nice to have some recourse here.

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You didn't follow the process for chargebacks on paypal.  You upload the tracking information that shows you shipped the item and paypal handles the issue directly.  If a chargeback occurs it's covered under paypal's seller protection and you should not be charged.  If you still have the tracking info open an appeal on paypal.

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That would be for an unauthorized transaction. Those are pretty much the only chargebacks that a seller can win.

@heatheralec

Paypal has no choice (and Ebay is out of the picture)  in the matter when a credit card chargeback is filed. They have zero say. All they can do is submit information that the credit card company asks for and that you give them. Chargebacks are entirely in the credit card company's hands.

[missjen831]

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@heatheralec wrote:

There was no option for this.  Paypal only asked me to expain what happend, there was no place for tracking.

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That’s because it was an SNAD chargeback which is excluded from seller protection. The only time the process requires tracking or proof of shipment is when the chargeback is for an item not received or unauthorized use. So it’s not that you didn’t follow the chargeback procedure, it’s that you weren’t covered by seller protection. It is possible for sellers to win these chargebacks but usually they lose. 

There is nothing for you to appeal. The PayPal user agreement states that this type of chargeback is not covered by seller protection. It would have been a different story if the buyer claimed they didn’t receive the item or that their PayPal account or credit card was used without their permission. Your tracking number is not relevant to this SNAD chargeback. 

[missjen831]

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@dtexley3 wrote:

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@heatheralec wrote:

There was no option for this.  Paypal only asked me to expain what happend, there was no place for tracking.

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Read the PayPal seller protection terms regarding chargebacks.  Call and open an appeal and point them to their own terms.  As long as you have proof the item was shipped it's covered.  Chargebacks happen all the time and as long as the required proof of shipment is provided you are supposed to be covered.

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@dtexley3 there are different types of chargebacks. Have you read the PP seller protection policy yourself? (Not asking that to be rude). The OP is not covered by seller protection. This was not an INR or UA chargeback. 

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@dtexley3 wrote:

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@heatheralec wrote:

I don't understand how it is legal for a customer to keep an item they purchased and then file a credit card dispute and get their money back?  Why is this not covered under seller protection?  I am not a big seller, but I have been selling for 10 years on Ebay.  I had a customer who wished to return an item because it didn't fit with what she wanted.  I told her she could return it, however since there was nothing wrong with it, she would have to pay for the return shipping.  3 weeks later, she files a credit card dispute.  I just got a note from Paypal saying the amount was deducted from my account along with a $20 fee.  So now I am out the $60 item, the shipping I paid, ($25.00) AND the $20 fee, AND the item.  Wonderful to know, that customers can just click one thing on their credit card menu, and "Poof" get their money back and keep item, "YAY"!  Is there anyway for a seller to report a customer for credit card fraud???  This effects ALL sellers, so it would be nice to have some recourse here.

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You didn't follow the process for chargebacks on paypal.  You upload the tracking information that shows you shipped the item and paypal handles the issue directly.  If a chargeback occurs it's covered under paypal's seller protection and you should not be charged.  If you still have the tracking info open an appeal on paypal.

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Your information isn't accurate for all chargebacks.  

With unauthorized chargeback the seller only needs proof of shipment to the address on file 

INR chargeback needs delivery to address on file signature over 750

SNAD chargeback has no protection 

[dtexley3]

disregard my post, jen is correct I haven't finished my coffee yet.

[ed8108]

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@missjen831 wrote:

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@heatheralec wrote:

There was no option for this.  Paypal only asked me to expain what happend, there was no place for tracking.

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That’s because it was an SNAD chargeback which is excluded from seller protection. The only time the process requires tracking or proof of shipment is when the chargeback is for an item not received or unauthorized use. So it’s not that you didn’t follow the chargeback procedure, it’s that you weren’t covered by seller protection. It is possible for sellers to win these chargebacks but usually they lose. 

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[ed8108]

Wouldn't the credit card company require a buyer to return the item to the seller for the chargeback to be successful ?

[missjen831]

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@ed8108 wrote:

Wouldn't the credit card company require a buyer to return the item to the seller for the chargeback to be successful ?

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Nope. Its on the seller to try to get the item back as soon as they are notified of the chargeback. For the most part, the CC company just wants to see that the buyer attempted to return the item. 

[luckythewinner]

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I don't understand how it is legal for a customer to keep an item they purchased and then file a credit card dispute and get their money back

It is not legal. But eBay and PayPal are not law enforcement.

Why is this not covered under seller protection?

Probably for the same reason that credit card processors do not offer blanket chargeback protection to retailers.

Is there anyway for a seller to report a customer for credit card fraud

eBay does not process payments, so you will not get help there.

On PayPal, you follow the instructions here:

https://www.paypal.com/us/smarthelp/topic/PROBLEMS