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What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: Is there anything you can do?

What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Return: Is there anything you can do? After the 2018 Spring Seller Update!

 

Yesterday, I received a return request.  The buyer said the item was not as described and proceed to write:  she wanted the shoes to be more brown.   I went back and reviewed my listing:   

 

I took 11 out of 12 pictures, described the shoes as brown...............So, I then ask myself what more could I have done to prevent this return........my answer : Nothing.   I therefore called eBay customer service and asked so , what more could I have done to prevent this return.   The eBay rep declared it was a remorse return, but I will have to wait (6) more days..............they said, they will instruct the buyer they will have to pay for the return shipping.    My question: Why should me, my family, my business lose money when someone was expecting someting other than what was advertised/promoted/described?    

 

What I use to and currently do to minimize returns.  Take clear pictures, take a lot of pictures from different angles, use clear lighting,  and carefully describe all flaws.    

 

 So I ask all of you:  

What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: (Is there anything you can do?)  After the 2018 Spring Seller Update!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 1 of 35
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34 REPLIES 34

Re: What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: Is there anything you can do?

I have said before that if we are required to take "free returns" for perks of having listings seen, we should be empowered to not have to accept sales from chronic returners.

If they are collecting the data, it should be fairly easy to code for.

 

Decline offers, bids, etc. from buyers with X  numbers of returns per calendar year. Just as most of us won't allow a sale from someone who has too many unpaid item strikes.

Message 16 of 35
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Re: What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: Is there anything you can do?

I sold a yard of corduroy that came from L.L. Bean for their hunting safety jackets.

My listing says Bright Neon Safety Orange Corduroy.    I am getting a SNAD for not as described because she wanted a more carrot color orange.     
On another site,  most of my returns are sent the wrong product.    I  know the difference between Disney Mickey Mouse fabric and Mario Brothers and in the 2 years that I have been there,  I have had more returns for sending the wrong fabric  than I ever have had in 10 years on Ebay.     But this is how they get free return shipping.

 

I cover my returns by raising prices on a few fabrics that sell well.

 

Not much you can do when customers know the game.

Message 17 of 35
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Re: What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: Is there anything you can do?


@junkintrunkvintagewrote:

I have said before that if we are required to take "free returns" for perks of having listings seen, we should be empowered to not have to accept sales from chronic returners.

If they are collecting the data, it should be fairly easy to code for.

 

Decline offers, bids, etc. from buyers with X  numbers of returns per calendar year. Just as most of us won't allow a sale from someone who has too many unpaid item strikes.

 

_____________________________________________________

 

Will only work if everyone is on board - ebay, paypal,  and the credit card company.

 

I


Message 18 of 35
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Re: What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: Is there anything you can do?

I can see where you are coming from regarding having your items seen since you are selling clothing which is a hard sell anyway.  I don't worry about whether my items are seen or not~~I sell things that don't have that much competition.  There may be a few pages of some items I sell but most have very little competition.  I listed a pan handle just the other day and there wasn't even a single other handle from that same model pan in current, sold or completed listings.  The less competition in what you sell the better.  Also, the less listings for the items you sell the better the chance the buyer is going to keep it knowing he may have to look harder to find another.

Message 19 of 35
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Re: What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: Is there anything you can do?


@orangehoundwrote:

@getitright1234wrote:
  I therefore called eBay customer service and asked so , what more could I have done to prevent this return.   The eBay rep declared it was a remorse return, but I will have to wait (6) more days..............they said, they will instruct the buyer they will have to pay for the return shipping. 

 


Just want to add a warning about "doing nothing" in this situation.  There are other sellers who have reported that when they did nothing, two things happened:  (1) the buyer was required to pay return shipping and (2) the seller got a defect for not resolving a customer issue.   This has never happened to me, but I've seen others report this.

 

What has happened to me?  Despite being told by the eBay rep exactly what you wrote, I did not approve the SNAD as guided by eBay CS ... CS then closed the return and opened a case where I was told not to do anything about it ... "do not worry" was the words from CS.  The case closed and (1) the buyer got a full refund and was told to keep the item, (2) I lost all eBay and PayPal fees, and (3) I got a seller defect.

 

I'm not telling you what to do, but for me:  the risk of all that bad stuff happening is not worth the few dollars that I would have to pay for the false SNAD.


The buyer said she wanted shows that were a different shade of brown or that she expected the shoes to be a different shade.   I know that what I did was right as a seller as to how I listed and described the shoes.  Why should me, my business, my family lose money because a buyer was expecting/or wanting something different.  Why should I be punished by eBay for a buyer who was trying to defraud me by declaring an item not as described.    Should I be punished for fighting a fraudulent claim, that violates my consumer protection rights.   

 

"consumer protection law - Legal Definition. n. A state or federal law designed toprotect consumers against improperly described, damaged, faulty, and dangerous goods and services as well as from unfair trade and credit practices."

 

Additional law information worth reading about returns/refunds:

Return Policies and Refunds 83  81.7K

 

Nearly every consumer has returned a purchased item for a refund, exchange, or store credit at least once. The experience usually is quite uneventful, although sometimes returns don't go the way we would like them to. But while merchants are not required to accept returns (unless there is a defect, in which case it may be covered by an implied warranty), certain laws govern the disclosure of refund and return policies.

The following information covers the basics of refunds and return policies in general. See "Product Warranties and Returns" for related articles.

Returns and Refunds: State Law

Many states have laws addressing consumer refunds, although not all of them offer guidance on how the laws apply to their residents who purchase goods from out-of-state merchants over the Internet. Below are some examples of state laws governing refunds:

  • California: Merchants are required to clearly post their refund policy unless they offer full cash refund, exchange, or store credit within seven days of the purchase date. Failing this requirement, customers may return goods for a full refund within 30 days of the purchase.
  • Florida: Merchants that do not offer refunds must post this fact where customers can see. Failing this requirement, customers may return goods for a full refund within 20 days of the purchase.
  • Illinois: Illinois citizens may cancel consumer transactions (and get a full refund) within three business days for door-to-door sales, campground memberships, and gym memberships.

In most cases, regardless of how a merchant drafts its return policy, the conditions of such a policy must be prominently displayed at the place of purchase (including Web sites) for it to be considered valid.

Merchants may charge a restocking fee for returned merchandise, which covers the cost of replacing the packaging in order to sell it as new. However, state laws dictate whether or not customers must be notified about these fees prior to purchase. In New York, for example, retailers are required to prominently display their restocking fee policies prior to the point of purchase. New Hampshire, on the other hand, does not require such a notification.  

Returns and Refunds: Federal Law

While state laws primarily govern the issue of returned merchandise, there's no federal law that requires a merchant to refund money. Per most state laws, refunds are subject to the established store refund policy at the time of purchase, unless the product purchased is found to be unfit for the purpose of which it was intended. A customer changing his or her mind after making a purchase, such as deciding they want a bigger television screen, is not the fault of the merchant and the merchant cannot be held responsible.

Generally speaking, most stores do offer refunds. It is usually pursuant to a store policy which explicitly that returns are extended, in order to create and keep good will in the community; but again, this is a store policy and not a federal law.

Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Deceptive Claims

Federal law does provide some, limited protections to consumers through the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). The FTC enforces federal consumer protection laws meant to prevent fraudulent, deceptive, or unfair business practices such as false advertising.

The agency will sue companies that make deceptive claims about their products or services. When the FTC settles a case it tries to obtain refunds for consumers who lost money, if that's possible, but these refunds are based on deceptive or unfair business practice regulations, not state-refunds laws. Simply put, refunds tend to be a state law contract issue.

FTC and the Cooling-Off Period Rule

The FTC also enforces a "Cooling-Off Rule," that pertains strictly to door-to-door sales. It gives a consumer three (3) days to cancel purchases of $25 or more made at a person's home, workplace or dormitory, or at facilities rented by the seller on a temporary short-term basis, such as hotel or motel rooms, convention centers, fairgrounds and restaurants. Many exceptions exist, however; it does not cover purchases made entirely by phone, mail, or online.

Return Fraud

There are numerous ways customers can defraud a merchant through the return process, but not all return fraud is distinguishable from legitimate returns. For example, someone who has a hard time deciding on what clothes to buy and makes frequent returns is not trying to game the system. But someone who buys a formal dress, wears it once, and then returns it the next day is in fact defrauding the merchant.

U.S. retailers lose between $9.6 billion and $14.8 billion annually from return fraud, according to research by the National Retail Federation (NRF) and the Loss Prevention Research Council. Returned merchandise is either marked down or thrown away, and often incurs hidden costs associated with being restocked.

Below are some common types of return fraud:

  • Wardrobing (or "renting"): Buying clothes or other items for one-time use and then returning them
  • Stolen Goods: Returning goods shoplifted at the same store or stolen elsewhere
  • Fraudulent Receipts: Using a reused, found, stolen, or altered receipt to return goods; or returning goods to a store with a higher price in order to make a profit
  • Employee Fraud: Manipulation or assistance from within the company
  • Price Switching: Affixing a higher-priced tag on an item in hopes of returning it for the higher refund

Consumers who are caught engaging in return fraud may face shoplifting or theft charges, as long as evidence exists that an actual crime took place. For example, wardrobing may be next to impossible to prove, but surveillance video of someone removing price tags could be the smoking gun in such a case.

If you have further questions about refund laws or believe you have a legal claim involving a purchase you've made, it may be in your best interests to consult with a qualified consumer protection attorney.

Message 20 of 35
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Re: What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: Is there anything you can do?

You are talking about "consumer protection".  Your buyer is the consumer~~not you and the law protects your buyer~~not you. 

 

This is ebay and you accept returns for 30 days which means you accept returns for no reason at all~~your buyer has buyer remorse BUT you still have to accept the return with your return policy in place. 

 

Why should you or your family suffer?  How?  The buyer will have to pay the return shipping out of her own pocket and you deduct the original shipping from the buyers original payment.  You have the boots back to relist and sell again.  IF the buyer fails to return the boots by the return date ebay allows the case gets closed in your favor and she owns herself a pair of boots whether she likes the color or not.  You and your family don't  suffer in the least.

Message 21 of 35
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Re: What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: Is there anything you can do?


@getitright1234wrote:

@orangehoundwrote:

@getitright1234wrote:
  I therefore called eBay customer service and asked so , what more could I have done to prevent this return.   The eBay rep declared it was a remorse return, but I will have to wait (6) more days..............they said, they will instruct the buyer they will have to pay for the return shipping. 

 


Just want to add a warning about "doing nothing" in this situation.  There are other sellers who have reported that when they did nothing, two things happened:  (1) the buyer was required to pay return shipping and (2) the seller got a defect for not resolving a customer issue.   This has never happened to me, but I've seen others report this.

 

What has happened to me?  Despite being told by the eBay rep exactly what you wrote, I did not approve the SNAD as guided by eBay CS ... CS then closed the return and opened a case where I was told not to do anything about it ... "do not worry" was the words from CS.  The case closed and (1) the buyer got a full refund and was told to keep the item, (2) I lost all eBay and PayPal fees, and (3) I got a seller defect.

 

I'm not telling you what to do, but for me:  the risk of all that bad stuff happening is not worth the few dollars that I would have to pay for the false SNAD.


The buyer said she wanted shows that were a different shade of brown or that she expected the shoes to be a different shade.   I know that what I did was right as a seller as to how I listed and described the shoes.  Why should me, my business, my family lose money because a buyer was expecting/or wanting something different.  Why should I be punished by eBay for a buyer who was trying to defraud me by declaring an item not as described.    Should I be punished for fighting a fraudulent claim, that violates my consumer protection rights.   

 

"consumer protection law - Legal Definition. n. A state or federal law designed toprotect consumers against improperly described, damaged, faulty, and dangerous goods and services as well as from unfair trade and credit practices."

 

Additional law information worth reading about returns/refunds:

Return Policies and Refunds 83  81.7K

 

Nearly every consumer has returned a purchased item for a refund, exchange, or store credit at least once. The experience usually is quite uneventful, although sometimes returns don't go the way we would like them to. But while merchants are not required to accept returns (unless there is a defect, in which case it may be covered by an implied warranty), certain laws govern the disclosure of refund and return policies.

The following information covers the basics of refunds and return policies in general. See "Product Warranties and Returns" for related articles.

Returns and Refunds: State Law

Many states have laws addressing consumer refunds, although not all of them offer guidance on how the laws apply to their residents who purchase goods from out-of-state merchants over the Internet. Below are some examples of state laws governing refunds:

  • California: Merchants are required to clearly post their refund policy unless they offer full cash refund, exchange, or store credit within seven days of the purchase date. Failing this requirement, customers may return goods for a full refund within 30 days of the purchase.
  • Florida: Merchants that do not offer refunds must post this fact where customers can see. Failing this requirement, customers may return goods for a full refund within 20 days of the purchase.
  • Illinois: Illinois citizens may cancel consumer transactions (and get a full refund) within three business days for door-to-door sales, campground memberships, and gym memberships.

In most cases, regardless of how a merchant drafts its return policy, the conditions of such a policy must be prominently displayed at the place of purchase (including Web sites) for it to be considered valid.

Merchants may charge a restocking fee for returned merchandise, which covers the cost of replacing the packaging in order to sell it as new. However, state laws dictate whether or not customers must be notified about these fees prior to purchase. In New York, for example, retailers are required to prominently display their restocking fee policies prior to the point of purchase. New Hampshire, on the other hand, does not require such a notification.  

Returns and Refunds: Federal Law

While state laws primarily govern the issue of returned merchandise, there's no federal law that requires a merchant to refund money. Per most state laws, refunds are subject to the established store refund policy at the time of purchase, unless the product purchased is found to be unfit for the purpose of which it was intended. A customer changing his or her mind after making a purchase, such as deciding they want a bigger television screen, is not the fault of the merchant and the merchant cannot be held responsible.

Generally speaking, most stores do offer refunds. It is usually pursuant to a store policy which explicitly that returns are extended, in order to create and keep good will in the community; but again, this is a store policy and not a federal law.

Federal Trade Commission (FTC) and Deceptive Claims

Federal law does provide some, limited protections to consumers through the Federal Trade Commission (FTC). The FTC enforces federal consumer protection laws meant to prevent fraudulent, deceptive, or unfair business practices such as false advertising.

The agency will sue companies that make deceptive claims about their products or services. When the FTC settles a case it tries to obtain refunds for consumers who lost money, if that's possible, but these refunds are based on deceptive or unfair business practice regulations, not state-refunds laws. Simply put, refunds tend to be a state law contract issue.

FTC and the Cooling-Off Period Rule

The FTC also enforces a "Cooling-Off Rule," that pertains strictly to door-to-door sales. It gives a consumer three (3) days to cancel purchases of $25 or more made at a person's home, workplace or dormitory, or at facilities rented by the seller on a temporary short-term basis, such as hotel or motel rooms, convention centers, fairgrounds and restaurants. Many exceptions exist, however; it does not cover purchases made entirely by phone, mail, or online.

Return Fraud

There are numerous ways customers can defraud a merchant through the return process, but not all return fraud is distinguishable from legitimate returns. For example, someone who has a hard time deciding on what clothes to buy and makes frequent returns is not trying to game the system. But someone who buys a formal dress, wears it once, and then returns it the next day is in fact defrauding the merchant.

U.S. retailers lose between $9.6 billion and $14.8 billion annually from return fraud, according to research by the National Retail Federation (NRF) and the Loss Prevention Research Council. Returned merchandise is either marked down or thrown away, and often incurs hidden costs associated with being restocked.

Below are some common types of return fraud:

  • Wardrobing (or "renting"): Buying clothes or other items for one-time use and then returning them
  • Stolen Goods: Returning goods shoplifted at the same store or stolen elsewhere
  • Fraudulent Receipts: Using a reused, found, stolen, or altered receipt to return goods; or returning goods to a store with a higher price in order to make a profit
  • Employee Fraud: Manipulation or assistance from within the company
  • Price Switching: Affixing a higher-priced tag on an item in hopes of returning it for the higher refund

Consumers who are caught engaging in return fraud may face shoplifting or theft charges, as long as evidence exists that an actual crime took place. For example, wardrobing may be next to impossible to prove, but surveillance video of someone removing price tags could be the smoking gun in such a case.

If you have further questions about refund laws or believe you have a legal claim involving a purchase you've made, it may be in your best interests to consult with a qualified consumer protection attorney.


Great post!   I have been say this stuff for years when  the old ceo JD ran the the site ! I have pointed out  that majoredy of ebay sellers are second hand 3P dealers  ,That have full right to setup limited retuns  time frame  or  No returns ,No refunds for some items .  Online dealers have same right's as B/M merchants under both the consumer and Merchant rights  state & Federal Statues. 

Message 22 of 35
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Re: What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: Is there anything you can do?

Why would everyone have to be on board - Ebay could just as easily let us put blocks up for buyers with more than 2 returns in a month or so many a year - just like we do for those with UPI's.

 

I would feel a little easier if we had to do free returns if I had the option to block. I'd like an option to block those that open too many requests but as seen with many of our regular seller / buyer posters here - even a great buyer can have problems with items received thru no fault of their own.

Message 23 of 35
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Re: What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: Is there anything you can do?

The consumer protection act protect merchants as well.   You can contact your consumer fraud division in your city and they will tell you just that:  the consumer protection action (also)  protects merchants.  No merchant should be forced or punished for not caving in on a false/misrespresented return.   

 

I just want a fair playing field for both seller and buyers.  For those buyers of whom a seller can show/prove  misrepresented the true nature of their reason for a return, eBay should not punish that seller with reduced visibility, or force the seller into pay for return shipping.  Please read the consumer protection act,  as a merchant, "you" are protected as well.   

Message 24 of 35
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Re: What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: Is there anything you can do?

I have said before that if we are required to take "free returns" for perks of having listings seen, we should be empowered to not have to accept sales from chronic returners.

If they are collecting the data, it should be fairly easy to code for.

 

Decline offers, bids, etc. from buyers with X  numbers of returns per calendar year.

 

As long as we're writing up a wish list of things that will never happen... can I get a block for excessive bid retractions to go with that? 

The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves.
Message 25 of 35
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Re: What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: Is there anything you can do?

Brown can be dark brown,chocolate brown or just plain brown?

people have different monitors to view your pictures,so it could be more brown than they expect.

 

I've never put much credence in this "monitors vary" thing... I've used a lot of monitors, unless you really got it all out of whack yourself by fiddling with things, they don't seem all that variable.  However, I do think there's a lot more of an issue with people buying from a tiny phone screen with a greasy fingerprinted screen protector over it.

The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves.
Message 26 of 35
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Re: What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: Is there anything you can do?

You, the seller, are protected.  YOU don't have to pay return shipping and you deduct the original shipping cost from the refund you return to the buyer.  You already said ebay saw it as a buyer remorse return and were requiring the buyer to pay return shipping out of her own pocket.

 

If I buy something retail at Walmart and need to return it because it doesn't work or quit working or I just decide I don't like it they accept the return and give me a full refund of my purchase price because they do have a return policy.  YOU have a return policy and should count yourself lucky you don't have to pay original or return shipping~~refund the buyer upon return the original purchase price MINUS original shipping and be happy you got off so easy.

 

Fight it and you will end up with a unresolved case on your record and the buyer will end up with a FULL refund AND they get to keep the boots.  With a return policy you will lose the case AND the boots.

Message 27 of 35
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Re: What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: Is there anything you can do?


@lintbrush*wrote:

IIRC the blues here said that a snad return can be changed into a remorse return as long as there is some record of disagreement by the seller and the buyer's request is clearly remorse.  I thought it would be through member to member messages wherein they seller tells the buyer that they are as described - brown - with 11 pictures provided - and follows it up with a phone call to CS.

 

After the 3 business days, the seller is supposed to be able to ask eBay to step in where they close the SNAD in the seller's favor and let the buyer return it on their own dime

 

@orangehound

How long ago did that happen?  I know there were some changes made last year which weren't actually published but still policy changes.  I don't feel like thread hunting.

 


Maybe my situation was a glitch, but this happened late December 2017.   It was a slam-dunk remorse return that got changed by eBay CS from remorse to SNAD after the buyer complained that they didn't want to pay return shipping.  When I saw the change to SNAD, I objected and noted eBay messages and the original return reason that show clear remorse.  The eBay CS reps told me that they can no longer close cases that are obvious remorse ... that they no longer have that power.  But "do not worry".

 

After everything was closed and decided in the buyer's favor, I was told that there was no appeal and that the matter is closed.  I waited a couple of weeks and formally appealed anyway.  Fortunately, I was able to get an American CS representative ... they seemed to know what they were doing and gave me a "courtesy" refund.  The buyer still kept the $120 product as a lovely parting gift.

Message 28 of 35
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Re: What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: Is there anything you can do?

Listing should be shown regardless what a seller's personal return policy is, we are paying fees to have our listings shown.   Is it legal not to show a sellers listings when sellers are paying their fees for that service, if not, just what are we paying for. 

Message 29 of 35
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Re: What Are You Going To Do To Minimize Your Returns: Is there anything you can do?

Is it legal not to show a sellers listings when sellers are paying their fees for that service...

 

eBay's UA says they're not obligated to show your listing to users, in order to provide the best possible "buyer experience", which you have agreed to via your acceptance of the UA by listing items for sale on with eBay. 

The Floggings Will Continue Until Morale Improves.
Message 30 of 35
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