Screwed by ebay appeal process.

[bernie301]

I sold a product to a customer. It was the 5th product for this particular car.  All the other customers were happy. This customer goes on and on about how the product is totaly wrong and how it could not possibly work.  I appealed to ebay. I was hopping the customer would realize the product was good and was a good value.  ebay rulled againts me and told me I had 7 days to send a return.

they also had a link to appeal again.  It did not say I would loose my right to demand a return. Yes it probably does say this in somewhere in the contract.  It is amost impossible to cntact ebay to get advice over the phone.

 ebay rulled against me again but this time just gave the buy the money back and unless I can get the buyer to return the item I am out over four thousand dollars as they will not hold up the refund till the buy returns the good

they did not warn me that appealing their first decision would jeopardize my right to return.

Suggestions? class action suit?  Anyone other seller had a similar experience?

[kensgiftshop]

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@asset_liquidators wrote:

You can report it as a stolen item as long as you have the serial number.

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How was the item stolen?

Buyer tried to return it but the seller refused.

[kensgiftshop]

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@dbfolks166mt wrote:

File a police report with their local police department?  Seriously?  On what grounds?  I didn't understand the INAD process, so help me go strong arm this guy?

     Theft. It is analogous to CC chargebacks and friendly fraud. 

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There was no theft.

Seller refused to accept the return and had Ebay step in.

[dbfolks166mt]

@dbfolks166mt wrote:

File a police report with their local police department?  Seriously?  On what grounds?  I didn't understand the INAD process, so help me go strong arm this guy?

     Theft. It is analogous to CC chargebacks and friendly fraud. 

There was no theft.

Seller refused to accept the return and had Ebay step in.

     It's a double edged sword. If seller refused to accept the return eBay should never have just refunded the buyer but unfortunately there are simply too many loopholes for a buyer to commit theft or fraud. This is theft no matter how you look at it the buyer got something for nothing. While the buyer may not have much legal recourse for that amount of money there are other ways to handle this situation that cross into some gray/black areas that I cannot list on this forum. 

     Buyer has their money back and the item and has no incentive to respond to the seller unless they are persuaded by some means to do so. 

[mr_lincoln]

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@asset_liquidators wrote:

and then got their money back and kept the item (not saying it's the right thing to do but it can be done). It is a problem created by ebay since they did not disclose at the time of the appeal that it could result in a refund without return. Ebay simply needs to have a pop-up warning there. Most sellers (the smart ones anyway) would wind up selecting "return for refund" and issuing a return label.

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@asset_liquidators 

While I agree that pop-up warnings would be helpful then they should START when a Seller uses the No returns accepted setting on their listings, like, "WARNING: eBay will side with the Buyer if you decline a return request when using the No returns accepted setting.  They can be Refunded in Full and allowed to keep the item.  eBay may also decline any and all appeals regardless of the Buyer's reason for the return request."

That about sums it up ... 

[coastaltechsolution]

Something like this to capture the attention

[bernie301]

My customer returned the good even though ebay informed him he could keep them. 

It is like ebay wants to drive vendors away and wipe them out.  INSANE

[mam98031]

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@asset_liquidators wrote:

and then got their money back and kept the item (not saying it's the right thing to do but it can be done). It is a problem created by ebay since they did not disclose at the time of the appeal that it could result in a refund without return. Ebay simply needs to have a pop-up warning there. Most sellers (the smart ones anyway) would wind up selecting "return for refund" and issuing a return label.

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I understand this point of view, but lets try a different one.

Sellers have the responsibility to know the rules.  It is not Ebay's fault that the OP did not.  Ebay followed the stated return policy of the seller, so Ebay took the seller at their word.  No Returns.

No Returns does not mean No Refunds.  The OP found this out the hard way.  

[mam98031]

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@bernie301 wrote:

My customer returned the good even though ebay informed him he could keep them. 

It is like ebay wants to drive vendors away and wipe them out.  INSANE

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This is wonderful.  It should also tell you that you were dealing with a HONEST buyer as they did not have to do that.

I understand why you are upset with Ebay, but you should know that Ebay was just following the return policy you had on the listing, which was No Returns.

You may want to consider moving your return policy to 30 days w/ buyer pays shipping.  It is likely to serve you much better.

****************************************

The return policies options are as follows.

1. No Returns
2. 30 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
3. 60 day returns w/ buyer pays shipping
4. 30 day returns w/ seller pays shipping, AKA Free Returns
5. 60 day returns w/ seller pays shipping. AKA Free Returns
6. 14 Day returns in certain categories

With option number 1, No Returns the seller can completely deny taking a return for a Buyer's Remorse Return Request.  Or if they want to they can accept the return and have the buyer pay the return shipping.  If the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer.

On options 2 & 3 the buyer is responsible for the return shipping on a Buyer's Remorse Return.  Plus if the seller so chooses they can withhold the original shipping if it was separately stated on the listing [not free shipping] when it is time to refund the buyer. As of October 1st 2019, sellers that are TRS have some additional protections as well as they can issue partial refunds if they options 2 or 3 as their return policy.

On options 4 & 5 above, they are also known as Free Returns.  If a seller that has either of those policies they will pay the return shipping even on a buyer's remorse return.  A seller can withhold the original shipping value from the refund if the shipping was separately stated in the listing [not free shipping].  Also Seller’s offering options 4 or 5 have the ability to do partial refunds in certain cases if the item arrives back damaged, missing something or in a condition less than what it was sent to the buyer in, see the policy for more details, the link is below.  In the cases where a deduction in the refund is taken due to damage or other authorized reasons for a partial refund, Ebay will protect the seller from negative or neutral feedback.

ALL OPTIONS [1, 2, 3, 4 and 5] are required to process SNAD claims without exception.  Even if they are improperly filed and should have been a Buyer’s Remorse claim.

All return policies by sellers must meet or exceed what is stated in the Money Back Guarantee Policy!

14 day return policies are allowed in certain categories: Jewelry & Watches, Collectibles & Art, Cameras & Photo and Medical, Mobility & Disability Equipment.

For those with Free Return and/or TRS members with 30 day return policies, there are some added protection benefits, one of which is the ability to do a discounted refund under certain conditions.

[theteamsetguy]

@bernie301 ,

The best way to take care this and minimize your loses is issue a return label for the buyer and refund when you get the item back. Once, you get  item back relist since it sold once it will sell again. 

Next I would go to your seller hub and change all of your items from no returns accepted to Free 30 day returns as I have done. Yes you will get more returns  but I have not had any bogus returns since then. Returns are a cost of doing business online and keeping your customers happy. 

[albany_sellers]

Does nobody else see anything wrong with this whole process? This seller is out $4,000 because eBay couldn't be transparent about what appealing a return means.

Sure, for us who have been at it quite a while it is obvious, but let's not act like there is no way that someone can not be blindsided by something like this and not expect that eBay would simply auto rule against them and give away their $4,000 item if they dared to ask them for help.

Let's also consider how EASY it would be for eBay to at least give a heads up that you will lose your item and your money if you ask them to help you out. A single sentence would have been enough. Ask yourself why eBay does not want to include that in the appeals process.

[mam98031]

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@albany_sellers wrote:

Does nobody else see anything wrong with this whole process? This seller is out $4,000 because eBay couldn't be transparent about what appealing a return means.

Sure, for us who have been at it quite a while it is obvious, but let's not act like there is no way that someone can not be blindsided by something like this and not expect that eBay would simply auto rule against them and give away their $4,000 item if they dared to ask them for help.

Let's also consider how EASY it would be for eBay to at least give a heads up that you will lose your item and your money if you ask them to help you out. A single sentence would have been enough. Ask yourself why eBay does not want to include that in the appeals process.

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The seller was dealing with an honest buyer and even though Ebay told them they did not have to return it, they did.  So the seller is fine on this transaction and now better understands the ramifications behind having a No Return Policy.

The seller should not have been blindsided.  Ebay hold sellers responsible for knowing the rules.  It is so important for sellers to understand what their return policies means.  Ebay requires our return policies to meet or exceed the MBG.  That is not new.

Get help from eBay

We know that our sellers want to provide buyers with a great experience, but sometimes you're not able to reach an agreement. If you and the buyer haven't been able to resolve the issue within 3 business days, we're always ready to step in and help.

If asked to step in to help, we may ask the buyer to return the item to you if any of the following apply:

• We can't determine that the item received by the buyer matches the listing description
• You offer returns and your stated return window applies
• You already offered to accept a return

If we step in at any stage and the item is returned used or damaged, you'll no longer be able to deduct an amount from the buyer's refund to cover the loss in value.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/handle-return-request-seller?id=4115

Since the OP offered a No Return Policy, then per the policy above, Ebay does not tell the buyer to return the item.

This particular transaction was a very expensive one and despite the Ebay rule, the seller was extremely lucky to get the buyer they had since they did return the item.

For the record, I am NOT defending Ebay's policy, just sharing it here so other may better understand Ebay's position and that it is stated in the polices that all sellers should know.