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Return when buyer admits she modified the item

So this buyer bought a formal dress from us that comes with a home security tag attached....the manufacturer puts these on the dresses.  It's nice because, if it's removed, we know that the buyer could have worn the dress.  This buyer messaged me and told me she removed the security tag but still wants to return the dress since it is too small.  I have free returns on my items.  In this case, when the item comes back, I intend to give her a partial refund since the item's condition has been modified.  She swears she did not wear the dress but I have had this situation before.  My question is, if I refund say 20 percent off, will I receive ALL my fees back from the original transaction?  I tried this recently before and it looked like I wasn't going to get ANY of my fees back....anyone know?  Thanks!

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Re: Return when buyer admits she modified the item


@mynewfindstore wrote:

Yeah I am just having a bad day.  I've been dealing with a lot of pain the past 4 years since my latest knee replacement.  Doc says there's nothing wrong with it but it bothers me most of the time, from stiffness to really bad aching.  I don't have a lot of tolerance for negativity lately!  At least I am getting an answer here that I can believe rather than try to call eBay customer service and deal with a heavily accented representative that probably doesn't know the answer!


The way pain affects character is one of the worst things about it to me.  Particularly in the period after the last dose of pain medication is gradually wearing off and you don't consciously notice the discomfort coming back until after you've shown your hiney. It's like you're almost "used to" it, but if some strapping 20 year old could be in your body for just 10 seconds they would call it agony.  I also have severe misophonia with an endless list of triggers (not just 'eating' and 'mouth' sounds like most miso sufferers).  And pain has a way of exacerbating it enormously of course, as well as being hot, hungry, itchy, you name it.   In fact it's usually one of those other discomforts (or after I've shown my hiney) that makes me realize I'm hurting again, time to redose the ibu and aceta (yeah I'm murdering my liver but I'm far more afraid of opiates, and this work doesn't go well with 'groggy').  

Message 31 of 67
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Re: Return when buyer admits she modified the item


@mynewfindstore wrote:

Yeah I am just having a bad day.  I've been dealing with a lot of pain the past 4 years since my latest knee replacement.  Doc says there's nothing wrong with it but it bothers me most of the time, from stiffness to really bad aching.  I don't have a lot of tolerance for negativity lately!  At least I am getting an answer here that I can believe rather than try to call eBay customer service and deal with a heavily accented representative that probably doesn't know the answer!


I wanted to share with you something earlier, but one challenge at a time prevented that...

 

However, I wanted to share that modifying an item invalidates the MBG!

You seem to have years of experience so it shouldn't be a mystery what that means, the fact that your buyer admitted they've modified the item is worth gold and you should be able to get this whole thing closed in your favor without a refund.

You may have to contact Ebay to do so, I do not recommend the heavily accented channels.

Message 32 of 67
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Re: Return when buyer admits she modified the item

Oh wow....I know that used to be true and I have had returns closed based on that but I haven't attempted that in years.  I didn't think eBay would do that any longer.  I will try though since she has not shipped the item back yet.   Thanks!

Message 33 of 67
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Re: Return when buyer admits she modified the item

@mynewfindstore  When you follow up the altered item lead - they do stipulate that the removed tag has to be the actual store tag, not our seller tag (i.e., I tag all of my items with my own tag, as well which would not qualify). The reason they gave was a little silly (i.e., that we can put our own tag on anything...which doesn't obviate the fact that a tag is a tag) but this is what I heard discuss on one of their podcasts a while ago.

 

I just wanted to add that - you said "home security tag" so I wasn't sure. But if it's the store "do not remove" tag it's something I'd definitely follow up and is a good idea.


“The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don’t have any.”
— Alice Walker

#freedomtoread
#readbannedbooks
Message 34 of 67
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Re: Return when buyer admits she modified the item

If all they did was remove a security tag, which doesn't affect the item any, I'd give a full refund.

Have a great day
Message 35 of 67
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Re: Return when buyer admits she modified the item

Yes, it's a tag the store puts on these dresses.  I did call eBay and they will not close the return for any reason now.  The rep said, the only way a return can be closed without a refund is if the buyer does not send the item back.  I did get a rep without an accent as well!  Also, he confirmed that if I issue a partial refund, my fees are not returned.  Geez, this is not fair.  It's probably this way to discourage sellers from issuing partial refunds.  

Message 36 of 67
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Re: Return when buyer admits she modified the item


@mynewfindstore wrote:

I had PT on and off for a year.  The knee took forever to bend and still doesn't bend as well as my other one.  After the first round of PT, I started ramping up my activities then I got tendonitis and had to start all over with the bending and PT.  It got better but I tried going back to walking again and the pain always came back.  With my other knee I had done in 2010, I had little pain and was able to walk fast for an hour, bike and do anything else I wanted except for running....running is a no-no for knee replacements!  I was a runner before my knees went bad, did aerobics, step classes....all kinds of things.  So this is very difficult for me now.  I feel crippled.  


 

I know how you feel.

I haven't had knee replacement yet, but both knees are pretty much shot.

I've had to learn to do things a lot different then I used to do and it's hard to make myself realize I can't do things like I used to.

 

 

 

 

Have a great day
Message 37 of 67
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Re: Return when buyer admits she modified the item


@mynewfindstore wrote:

Yes, it's a tag the store puts on these dresses.  I did call eBay and they will not close the return for any reason now.  The rep said, the only way a return can be closed without a refund is if the buyer does not send the item back.  I did get a rep without an accent as well!  Also, he confirmed that if I issue a partial refund, my fees are not returned.  Geez, this is not fair.  It's probably this way to discourage sellers from issuing partial refunds.  


Dang! But it still qualifies for reduction in refund.

 

@kensgiftshop  In this particular market, the removal of the security tag *does* affect value. There's a reason the tag is on there to begin with and that is to prevent clothes renting - too often the manufacturer tags can be hidden and the item worn. It's peculiar to the formal/prom market which has its own challenges.


“The most common way people give up their power is by thinking they don’t have any.”
— Alice Walker

#freedomtoread
#readbannedbooks
Message 38 of 67
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Re: Return when buyer admits she modified the item


There's a reason the tag is on there to begin with and that is to prevent clothes renting 

Even the word "renting" doesn't capture the true scvmbag nature of it, because actual renting involves a mutual agreement and payment.  What these fashion scammers do is more like "temporarily steal and devalue" clothes.  

@mynewfindstore  Here's a couple questions I don't think anyone has asked (forgive me if they did and I missed it). 
What was needed to remove this security tag, like could it have easily popped off while trying the dress on, or would it take intentional effort?  Did she actually say she removed it? 
How much time passed between when it was delivered to the buyer's address and when she filed the return?  


Message 39 of 67
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Re: Return when buyer admits she modified the item

The tag is kind of tricky to remove...she actually messaged me before she did it.  I told her to read the instructions on the tag.  The instructions to remove the tag are imprinted right on it.  When she messaged me over two weeks later wanting to return the item, I asked her if she removed the tag.  She said she cut it off.  If she cut it off, there's no way it can be reattached.  I don't believe there would be a way to reattach it anyway.  So, yes, she had the dress for a couple of weeks.  I am worried about the condition of the dress.  If I find that she damaged the dress in any way, I will definitely do the 50% off refund.  

Message 40 of 67
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Re: Return when buyer admits she modified the item

Okay, the reason I asked those questions was because I have pretty strong ethical concerns about this subject of partial refunds.  As someone mentioned, it's one of the few protections that eBay gives sellers.  In my view it's to "level out" two extreme truths that sellers face: That we have to issue a refund for every INAD return even if the buyer's reason is an obvious lie ... and .... issuing a refund may be catastrophic if it's a "large" amount of money (depends on your circumstance of course; for some sellers $100 is nothing; for others it would mean getting a utility cut off or whatever).  So having an avenue for issuing less than 100% can be a real blessing.  

SO FAR eBay gives sellers a pretty simple way to do it, with no evidence needed besides a photograph (which in most cases human eyes won't even see).  And SO FAR what happens if the buyer appeals is that eBay will issue them the rest of the refund out of THEIR (eBay's) revenues.  So in a sense eBay gives the seller that money!  But it's out of sheer trust that we won't abuse it.  

And by the way, not only is eBay willing to pony up money they don't "have" to give (which is almost unheard of in the corporate world) .... they surely realize that this feature runs the risk of losing buyers, whether or not they get the remaining money from appealing, and whether or not they really deserved the deduction from the seller.  Keeping buyers is obviously important to eBay, so to be honest I'm kinda shocked this feature exists at all.  And what I fear is sellers ABUSING it, which if it got too rampant, surely eBay would take it away.  

But then on the other hand, I also have very strong feelings about clothing "renters" as I said above^.  And by the way, when they do it to Macy's or Dillards or whatever it's one thing; when they do it to some single mom or retiree trying to scrape bill money, it's disgusting.  

SO!  -In this case I think you absolutely should retain 50% of this refund, here's why: The buyer purposely removed the security tag and possessed the dress for 2 weeks, far more than the time needed to try it on for size, and long enough to wear it to whatever event she bought it for.  And this is a crucial factor: you said it's a FORMAL dress.  Many stores don't even give refunds for formals -why?  Because they KNOW that formal attire is something people will likely wear only once, not add to their regular wardrobe.   And (this I can't begin to understand) -for some reason people, women in particular, tend to seek a NEW garment to wear to a formal occasion, rather than find something at a thrift store or Marketplace or whatever, even though they know they'll wear it only once.   And the reason I bring that up is, you will definitely have a harder time selling that dress again without the security tag that proved it had never been worn!  

If you want to deduct 'some' but consider 50% too much, that's up to you.  But definitely keep in mind the fact that you won't get any seller fees back, whereas if you issued a 100% refund, you would.  I don't know what % you paid for promotion, but add that to the 15% Final Value Fee, and that's the amount eBay would give you if you issued the full refund.    But I also think this buyer deserves to learn a lesson from this.  

If you do decide to issue a partial refund but don't know how, come back and ask for help.  Also, you started this thread 4 days ago so I'm curious -do you see tracking yet?  Like is the dress on the way back to you yet? 

Message 41 of 67
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Re: Return when buyer admits she modified the item

Be aware that there are guidelines to the allowed partial refunds & that eBay monitors the usage supposedly.  I know that eBay does not consider a tag cut off to be worthy of 50% kept from the deduction.   Here's the info. 

 

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/handle-return-request-seller?id=4115#refu...

 

Personally, this seems to be a lot of energy expended over a relatively low cost item.  You have free returns, so you have to honor that, I would wait until you get it back & then see what condition it's in, rather than stressing about things that haven't happened yet.  When you get it back, depending on the condition, I would refer to the guidelines & make a determination.   But I just wanted to point out that eBay has expectations of what you will return.  Honestly, if she's not happy, she'll call eBay & they'll refund her the rest anyway out of their pocket, so I wouldn't spend a ton of time on this. 

This one goes to Eleven - Nigel Tufnel

Simply-the-best-for-you Volunteer Community Mentor
eBay Seller since 1996

Message 42 of 67
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Re: Return when buyer admits she modified the item

I don't see tracking as yet.  I have done the partial refund before.  I believe eBay used to give the fees back or if they didn't, I just didn't notice or care because at the time we were selling WAY more than we are now!  I now have to sell on three platforms and still don't make as much as a few years ago.  Still, it's better than going out and working which I am not going to do at 67!  My daughter and I run this business and started it so she could have some income since due to health issues, she cannot work full time.  She now also has to do other things to supplement.   We adjust and move forward!

Message 43 of 67
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Re: Return when buyer admits she modified the item

It sure would be awesome if this buyer is one of those who doesn't get around to sending the item back by the deadline.  It's been a while since I was a 'primarily clothes' seller here, but I remember a good 1/4 (maybe even 1/3) of my garment returns ended that way -even with me having FREE returns!  I guess some people just forget and procrastinate.  

Message 44 of 67
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Re: Return when buyer admits she modified the item

I sure wish but I haven't had that happen in a couple of years.  It seems like eBay gives them more and more time to send the item back!  I tend to procrastinate but even that window of time is enough for me! lol  I hardly ever have returned anything....

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