Possible way to thwart the 'face mask return' scam

[gurlcat]

I've been thinking about this scam a lot, since it seems so bullet-proof (for the scammer), and I just can't accept that any given sale could go that way, with no recourse for the seller.  Finally just now an idea occurred to me, but I don't know if I'm forgetting some important factor that would make it not work. 

Say you sell a high-dollar item and notice that the "buyer" has a new account and low/no feedback -obviously NOT a guaranteed scammer but definitely a bright red flag.  If they ARE a scammer, then they are some person in China or whatever -they definitely don't live at the shipping address, which they have changed so that you'll send the item to the real buyer (who bought it much cheaper from the scammer who used a copy of your listing).  And if you ship the item, it will go to that real buyer, but then sometime later the scammer will file a return, still pretending to be "the buyer" but they'll send you a face mask, and you'll be forced to refund them for the actual item you sold.  

So, how about this?  -Before shipping, you write an email something like this:

Thank you for your purchase.  Due to recent cases involving fraudulent shipping addresses, I must ask you to send a photograph of a piece of mail you've received from a utility company or government agency, showing your address on the front.  If this isn't too much of an inconvenience, I will ship immediately after receipt.  Thanks for your understanding.  

In my view, if it's someone who really bought the item, they would have no beef with that, partly because they may think there's a risk of them not receiving the item and losing their money for nothing.  But if it's a scammer they'll either not reply or make excuses, then you would just cancel the sale, based on a (LITERAL) 'problem with shipping address.'  

[ten_o_nine]

@gurlcat 

I might try that if scammers were 99.9 of buyers, but in 20 years of selling here, Suprise, I had no scammers.

I use eBay for international shipping and track all my US shipments, just don't understand how the scam could happen.

How would this happen in reality?

[epowerbargains]

Since eBay does not require buyers to send verification of their address by providing a utility bill or a mail item from a government agency to sellers when they make a purchase you may run into problems. It's impossible to implement this requirement for your eBay listings without damaging your account. Nothing stops a buyer from purchasing from your store and ignoring "your requirements" - and then if you decline to mail the order you will get a serious account defect. Get 3 or so of these and eBay will shut down your ability to sell. And, if a seller cancels an abnormal number of sales due to "problem with shipping address" I would be concerned that the bots will take a look at the account and there could be negative consequences. Then there is the risk of getting negative feedback and/or reported.  I doubt that eBay will ever make providing potentially sensitive information to a seller a buyer requirement. I predict that many buyers will be suspicious of any seller who has this as a selling requirement. That said, all sellers welcome any and all creative suggestions to stem online fraud both buyer and seller. Care needs to be taken that ideas don't inadvertently harm sellers accounts and/or make honest buyers uncomfortable. 

[gurlcat]

It's a fairly complicated scam, but I'll try to illustrate with an example.  

Okay, so you list a rare antique Flantabulator listed for $500 (totally worth it by the way -have you SEEN the values of flantabulators on Antiques Roadshow?!!). 🤣

A guy named Frank in China copies your photos, maybe even your written description and item specifics, and lists it on a fake website, where it will show up in search results on Google, to anyone who googles 'flantabulator.'  But HE has it priced at only $200.  

A lady named Sarah in Texas sees that listing and can't believe her eyes.  A real antique flantabulator in excellent condition, for only $200?!!  So she buys ... not from YOU, but from Frank, via that fake website.  

Then Frank takes her $200, puts in his own $300, and HE buys the item from you, but first he changes his shipping address to Sarah's.  -He wants Sarah to receive the item, or else she might do a chargeback on the card she used, and that would ruin the whole scam.  

So you send the flantabulator to Sarah in Texas, thinking you are sending it to Frank in Texas. 

A day after tracking shows it delivered, Frank files an INAD return, claiming the flantabulator arrived broken.  You have no choice but to issue him a return shipping label. 

Then he forwards that label to his buddy Roger who lives in the U.S..  Roger puts a face mask (or some other junk item) in a box, puts on the shipping label and it arrives back to you.  

Ebay's tracking shows "the flantabulator" as delivered back to you, so you have 4 days to give Frank the $500, and if you don't, eBay will take it from you and give it to him.  They do not care about your phone calls or buyer reports showing your photographs of the face mask.  You have no way to prove that's what you got instead of the flantabulator.  

Frank gets his $300 investment money back, and the $200 as his profit.  



  

[epowerbargains]

On variety of this scam: a new buyer w/ a new eBay account buys an expensive item, pays. Upon receipt of the item opens a "Item not as described" case and the seller sends a return label. The buyer sends a tracked return with an empty envelope (or sometimes a face mask) - eBay bots see that the buyer sent the return and tracking shows delivered. Seller is out the item and the money. Sometimes in another variation the tracking goes to the city/state the seller lives in - not even the exact address. Same outcome seller loses item and money. 

[gurlcat]

All true points, but I guess I should have clarified: this would be for a seller who has mostly lower-priced items, so a higher-priced one would be a relatively rare situation, and having it fall prey to a scammer is also a low likelihood.  In other words, I would not recommend anyone do this as a routine precaution, only rarely (chances are you may only need to do it once).  

As for it violating policy, the only way it would come to eBay's attention would be if the buyer reported it, and if the buyer is actually a scammer, it's pretty unlikely they would want to risk sharing any of that attention.  It'd be like someone calling the police because someone stole their meth.  😂

[gurlcat]

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@epowerbargains wrote:

On variety of this scam: a new buyer w/ a new eBay account buys an expensive item, pays. Upon receipt of the item opens a "Item not as described" case and the seller sends a return label. The buyer sends a tracked return with an empty envelope (or sometimes a face mask) - eBay bots see that the buyer sent the return and tracking shows delivered. Seller is out the item and the money. Sometimes in another variation the tracking goes to the city/state the seller lives in - not even the exact address. Same outcome seller loses item and money. 

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Yes but in that case all the scammer gets as a "profit" is the item, unless they also used a stolen credit card.  

[ten_o_nine]

I understand that, but it's not common.

[richard1rst]

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@gurlcat wrote:

Okay, so you list a rare antique Flantabulator listed for $500 (totally worth it by the way -have you SEEN the values of flantabulators on Antiques Roadshow?!!). 🤣

I have my own way of avoiding the "face mask return" scam. I don't list "rare antique Flantabulator"

I also do not list electronics, clothes, car parts, or any other item that is the preferred target of scammers.

I am here to keep busy and earn a living. There is no one thing that I absolutely have to sell so long as I sell something. So I sell routine mundane not prone to scams products. I haven't had any of the problems you envision. See how easy that is?

[epowerbargains]

True - still not good!

[epowerbargains]

Yes....however there are folks out there who are hypersensitive to being asked for information. 

[epowerbargains]

Not sure about that I am hearing about this type of scam more and more often.....

[epowerbargains]

I think that gurlcat is trying to find a way for sellers to feel safe listing higher value items. Sellers should not feel so afraid to list items that are scammer targets - but they are - and everyone but the scammers lose. 

[reallynicestamps]

there are folks out there who are hypersensitive to being asked

True.

I have mentioned that in moments of boredom I have googled the addresses of the odd customer.

And posters went LibrarianPoo!

I mean, I don't do anything with it. I'm just nosy.

I troll real estate websites and mentally criticize decorating choices too.

Best one was a house squeezed beside a corner coffee shop at the side of a canal in Amsterdam. It was also painted yellow.

I am easily amused.

[richard1rst]

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@epowerbargains wrote:

I think that gurlcat is trying to find a way for sellers to feel safe listing higher value items. Sellers should not feel so afraid to list items that are scammer targets - but they are - and everyone but the scammers lose. 

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Well, I hope you will forgive me for once again resurrecting an old joke.

Guy walks into a doctor's office, raises his arm over his head, and says "Doc, it hurts when I do this"

So the doctor says "Then don't do that"

If higher valued items are risky, and you are concerned about the risks "Then don't do that"