eBay

gurlcat · ‎03-03-2024

I've been thinking about this scam a lot, since it seems so bullet-proof (for the scammer), and I just can't accept that any given sale could go that way, with no recourse for the seller. Finally just now an idea occurred to me, but I don't know if I'm forgetting some important factor that would make it not work.

Say you sell a high-dollar item and notice that the "buyer" has a new account and low/no feedback -obviously NOT a guaranteed scammer but definitely a bright red flag. If they ARE a scammer, then they are some person in China or whatever -they definitely don't live at the shipping address, which they have changed so that you'll send the item to the real buyer (who bought it much cheaper from the scammer who used a copy of your listing). And if you ship the item, it will go to that real buyer, but then sometime later the scammer will file a return, still pretending to be "the buyer" but they'll send you a face mask, and you'll be forced to refund them for the actual item you sold.

So, how about this? -Before shipping, you write an email something like this:

Thank you for your purchase. Due to recent cases involving fraudulent shipping addresses, I must ask you to send a photograph of a piece of mail you've received from a utility company or government agency, showing your address on the front. If this isn't too much of an inconvenience, I will ship immediately after receipt. Thanks for your understanding.

In my view, if it's someone who really bought the item, they would have no beef with that, partly because they may think there's a risk of them not receiving the item and losing their money for nothing. But if it's a scammer they'll either not reply or make excuses, then you would just cancel the sale, based on a (LITERAL) 'problem with shipping address.'

yoonix1 · ‎03-05-2024

People regardless what you say most likely will not respond. I wouldn't. You try to make buying and selling too complicated. Simply go to Google Earth and find the location for your own judgement, and keep in mind EBay already verified the Buyer's and Seller's addresses.

gurlcat · ‎03-05-2024

@yoonix1 wrote:
Simply go to Google Earth and find the location for your own judgement, and keep in mind EBay already verified the Buyer's and Seller's addresses.

Another suggestion showing a misunderstanding of how this scam works. The shipping address will be absolutely FINE, a regular house in a suburb probably. Because the person you would ship to really did buy the item, but they bought it cheaper from a dirtbag scammer, having no idea that they are serving as a helper with the scam.

zamo-zuan · ‎03-05-2024

It'd be nice if eBay allowed you to do this, and back when they had the pilot program you had more leeway with things like this.

Problem is if you cancel the sale like that, eBay will say you're abusing the cancellation policy.

Even when we try to confirm addresses that USPS reports issues with, eBay has given us problems. And they have pretty consistently advised that "if the buyer doesn't respond, send it".

eBay isn't on the sellers side in these cases.

gurlcat · ‎03-05-2024

But doesn't the buyer need to report the cancellation to eBay for it to come to their attention? And even if they do, what is the punishment for doing it once?

I want to re-emphasize that I am talking about a very rare stopgap scenario, probably as likely as you will ever have to use a fire extinguisher.

dhbookds · ‎03-05-2024

@gurlcat I don't quite understand how you choose which transaction to "target" with the utility request? high price items? As I remember, Pet Smart got hit back 4-5 years ago with this as a massive scam.....100's, if not 1000's of sales involved.......

For info..........this is how Better Half and I would explain the process.......

3 people involved:

AMZ Seller who is also an Ebay buyer

Ebay Seller

Innocent buyer

Ebay seller lists X at $400

Amazon Seller copies the listing and lists it for $200 on Amz

Innocent buyer buys/pays on Amz

Amz Seller buys item @400 on Ebay, using Innocent Buyer's address for delivery

Innocent Buyer receives item

Amazon Seller (who is the buyer on Ebay) files a NAD claim on ebay, returns a hat, gets a full refund of the $400

sextons-sweet-deals · ‎03-05-2024

I was speaking more in general than an international / freight forwarder issue. I believe it was later in the thread the O.P. identified what looks like a warehouse.

If I do decide to ship to a freight forwarder, I will ship with signature required depending on the price and the buyer's profile. There are some excellent International buyers out there! This will at least show it was delivered and signed for at the freight forwarder.

I have read too many posts about how someone shipped to a freight forwarder and the buyer is watching. As soon as it is shown delivered (say without signature), they try to open a case and claim they did not receive the item.

Now the seller is in a corner panicking on how handle the case correctly. Will eBay bots realize that the buyer is overseas, and the package has only reached the freight forwarder?

Maybe the signature is not needed, but for the cost, it is worth it because a seller will exhaust more time and effort trying to get their money back from eBay and so on.

sugarnspice777 · ‎03-05-2024

Here is how to stop it.

ANY high dollar item I sell I check the buyer out. If the registered address is some foreign country and the mailing address is USA, that brings me a red flag for this is not a drop shipper situation, it is a house. I will call ebay about this. You write to the person and ask them why are they in another country, and shipping to a house in USA. If they answer, they are putting thereself out there to not be able to do a SNAD. Then you just cancel the sale and block.

itsjustasprain · ‎03-05-2024

@sextons-sweet-deals wrote:
If I do decide to ship to a freight forwarder, I will ship with signature required depending on the price and the buyer's profile. There are some excellent International buyers out there! This will at least show it was delivered and signed for at the freight forwarder.

Unless the sale was $750 or higher (when SC is required by Ebay) the signature is irrelevant. Delivery confirmation will give you exactly the same confirmation for free.

@sextons-sweet-deals wrote:
I have read too many posts about how someone shipped to a freight forwarder and the buyer is watching. As soon as it is shown delivered (say without signature), they try to open a case and claim they did not receive the item.

So what? You have proof of delivery to the address provided with the payment. Again the signature does not matter unless the sale was for $750 or more.

@sextons-sweet-deals wrote:
Now the seller is in a corner panicking on how handle the case correctly. Will eBay bots realize that the buyer is overseas, and the package has only reached the freight forwarder?

I am wondering if you are confusing an Item Not Received claim with a Not As Described/Money Back Guarantee claim. The latter is supposed to not apply in cases where the package was forwarded.

@sextons-sweet-deals wrote:
Maybe the signature is not needed, but for the cost, it is worth it because a seller will exhaust more time and effort trying to get their money back from eBay and so on.

Again - the use of Signature Confirmation for sales below $750 is not necessary and does not make the package any more Delivered than if you just used the free Delivery Confirmation tracking.

sextons-sweet-deals · ‎03-05-2024

I still disagree, but that is okay. That is what this board is here for. Share ideas and help those who are new sellers and / or less experienced.

I have done research before shipping and if the location looked iffy, I spent that little coin for signature / safe delivery. That cost is nothing compared to a possible headache down the road.

Examples:

1. Home that is very overgrown and not maintained or business that looks empty.

2. buyer just signed up on same day of purchase over $150+

3. New buyer with an apartment address. I don't know what type of mail delivery is done. Does the office accept packages that don't fit in the renter's mail lock box? Do the packages just get dropped at the apartment door for everyone to see and possibly take?

I'm sure others can easily add on to this list.

Here is the odd thing! I have received some packages back and never hear a word from the buyer. I had at least two buyers play the USPS reschedule delivery game. My guess was in hope the carrier would mess up and just drop off without signature.

What is really going on is the big question. Are these scammers using stolen C.C. cards, using stolen gift card numbers, or hoping that they can open a case with eBay or C.C.?

gurlcat · ‎03-05-2024

@sugarnspice777 wrote:
Here is how to stop it.
ANY high dollar item I sell I check the buyer out. If the registered address is some foreign country and the mailing address is USA, that brings me a red flag for this is not a drop shipper situation, it is a house. I will call ebay about this. You write to the person and ask them why are they in another country, and shipping to a house in USA. If they answer, they are putting thereself out there to not be able to do a SNAD. Then you just cancel the sale and block.

Can you say what you mean by "registered address"? Because all I'm aware of is "Location" on a member's profile, which doesn't show a specific address but just a country, and tons of foreign members have 'United States' as their supposed location. How they manage to do that, I have no idea, but it's extremely common.

For example, this recent buyer has a Chinese name and their shipping address is a freight forwarder in Oregon who routinely ships to buyers with 'China' on their member profile. But this member's location is allegedly in the United States. And they're not even a scammer. I know that because they have a nice long history including lots of feedbacks.

But if I'm wrong and you mean something other than member profile location when you say 'registered address,' please do tell!!

gurlcat · ‎03-05-2024

@dhbookds wrote:
@gurlcat I don't quite understand how you choose which transaction to "target" with the utility request? high price items?

As I said in the OP: "Say you sell a high-dollar item and notice that the "buyer" has a new account and low/no feedback -obviously NOT a guaranteed scammer but definitely a bright red flag. "

gurlcat · ‎03-05-2024

This thread is about a very specific scam, not "general" anything. Please don't make it any more confusing for people who are reading along, by talking about INR's, credit card scams, and such.

yuzuha · ‎03-05-2024

@itsjustasprain wrote:
Again - the use of Signature Confirmation for sales below $750 is not necessary and does not make the package any more Delivered than if you just used the free Delivery Confirmation tracking.

Not to mention that it angers buyers who might not be at home to sign for a package when they weren't expecting it. If a seller did that to me, I would never purchase from them again.

yuzuha · ‎03-05-2024

@gurlcat wrote:
As I said in the OP: "Say you sell a high-dollar item and notice that the "buyer" has a new account and low/no feedback -obviously NOT a guaranteed scammer but definitely a bright red flag. "

How on earth is it a "bright red flag"? The first purchase I ever made on eBay was $300+. It was a collectible I had been looking for for years but hadn't been able to find in any local venues. I created my account specifically to purchase this particular thing.

I suspect there are many first-time buyers out there who are exactly like me in that respect.

gurlcat · ‎03-05-2024

@yuzuha wrote:
@gurlcat wrote:
As I said in the OP: "Say you sell a high-dollar item and notice that the "buyer" has a new account and low/no feedback -obviously NOT a guaranteed scammer but definitely a bright red flag. "
How on earth is it a "bright red flag"? The first purchase I ever made on eBay was $300+. It was a collectible I had been looking for for years but hadn't been able to find in any local venues. I created my account specifically to purchase this particular thing.

I suspect there are many first-time buyers out there who are exactly like me in that respect.

I believe my first purchase was around $300 too. But I wouldn't even check a buyer's profile for an item of that price because that's not what I would call high-dollar. There are reasons I'm not stating outright what I would consider high-dollar, but suffice it to say the item price AND profile details would be the 2 main things to consider, in pertinence to this particular scam.