Possible buyer fraud in progress (Switch-a-roo)

[hiiragi_tsukasa]

Recently sold a brand new and rare game that was sealed and brand new, and a bonus 2nd game that was new and open box with some box damage with pictures clearly showing the damage, the buyer is now contesting the auction was not as described and wants to return, now here is the thing - after checking the buyers feedback and even contacting a few people who sold to him, they all have said the exact same thing - that this buyer is doing the old switch-a-roo scam, one person who sold a like new open box game, with pics of the game disc and the buyer returned with a broken box and a damaged disc that clearly was not the same - the buyer is seems to be doing it very infrequently enough to try to stay under the radar - and like me, has been an Ebay member for along time and thus here is the dilemma, the longer you've been a member you know all the tricks, what you can get away with and what you cannot.

This is when I do NOT TRUST Ebay's seller protections, and everyone who's been on Ebay for a significantly long time knows this, if this person does indeed to commit any type of fraud then one thing is for certain, I cannot rely on Ebay here for any protection.

Has anyone actually managed to get Ebay to actually side with the seller even when clear fraud is evident? I'm not so worried about the bonus game if this person tries to switch out my brand new shiny game disc for a scratched and worthless one, because that game isn't worth much at all, more worried about the sealed rare game. The other issue is that many Ebayers always contest the "Brand new" label, Brand New doesn't have to mean its factory sealed either, Brand new and unused, Brand New - Open box etc and once again, Ebay does not side with the seller nearly as much as it should even when its an open and shut case and even in some cases will feed you a standard script.

I've personally sold a lot of games and purchased too, sure - sometimes as a buyer myself that the seller has neglected to mention some minor damage or over-stated the game's condition but most of the time its been acceptable, but occasionally you do get predatory scammers who try to look for any cracks in your items description to exploit, and it isn't always possible to write a 50 page document accurately describing your item to prevent this type of abuse.

I feel like submitting a police report and a mail fraud incident to the post office doesn't have any impact for the seller after all, if you've been ripped off and ebay will not step in on your behalf most of the time and I'm not sure how actually impactful this is for the fraudulent buyers especially if they skirt under the radar by only doing this type of fraud infrequently.

[hartungcards]

It actually is possible to write a 50 page document accurately describing your item.  Just use the AI-generated decriptions, although you may want to edit the not-so-accurate parts.

[stainlessenginecovers]

There's a nothing that can be done. Ebay implemented the "down to 50%" refund (for Top Rated Sellers) which you can do when item is returned- and that's it (besides 'reporting' the buyer, which does NOTHING for you, but may for everyone else if 'enough' report that buyer). 

[hiiragi_tsukasa]

Those just describe the item itself,  and not necessarily the condition of the item and if you list a lot then the AI doesn't,  the moral of the story is don't always rely on AI,  make sure your description and condition of all products in your lot is ironclad, pictures pictures pictures of everything always assume, that someone is going to try and scam you - that is unfortunately the ebay story. 

For games, AI will just usually display general information about the game, who created it, year etc - and that is fine is your auction is a single listing of one game.   I guess, I'll just stop the practice of offering bonus games to sweeten the deal, or I'll just donate them to goodwill at the end of the day.

[bamorris · Accepted solution]

Here's my experience.

If a buyer initiates a return fraud scenario on you. There are a number of variations of them.... eBay will generally side with the buyer in any and all instances.

Then you have an opportunity to "APPEAL". You can appeal eBay's decision. And generally I've had good luck winning on appeal and being made whole again on my loss.

This has been my and others who I discuss eBay with in private settings experience.

The appeal will take into consideration your history here... I don't have specifics into the process. But I got the feeling that my 24 year old eBay account with excellent history helped with my appeals.

Hope it works for you and the return fraud is few and far between.

[hiiragi_tsukasa]

Same, I don't sell that often only particular things but I've been a member for 23 years myself with 100% positive feedback because if I sell something that was my personal property that I took care of and enjoy it, I want the next person to take care of it and enjoy it as well.

Unfortunately,  scammers exist and this isn't the first time I've had return fraud happen that is why I had a bad gut feeling right from the first time this person sent me an offer,  what I should have done is checked the prior feedback this person received and low and behold - one of the feedback this buyer received less than 6 months ago was  "Beware this buyer will switch out disks and case and ship back damaged goods claiming item is "dirty" " not as described."

If I had read that feedback, I would have not accepted the offer - I used to be a lot more careful after the first case of return fraud that happened several years ago,   it looks like having to go back to being exceptionally careful again.  

The problem with Ebay is that,  Ebay knows return fraud is a problem - yet does next to nothing to stop it, it allows people who try to skirt under the radar to keep committing this type of fraud because they know, Ebay will protect them, the buyers first and foremost.  And with that knowledge, they get away with it almost all the time.

[kensgiftshop]

If the seller was willing to violate a policy, it doesn't say much about the seller, so how do you know if the feedback is true or not?

[bamorris]

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@hiiragi_tsukasa wrote:

The problem with Ebay is that,  Ebay knows return fraud is a problem - yet does next to nothing to stop it, it allows people who try to skirt under the radar to keep committing this type of fraud because they know, Ebay will protect them, the buyers first and foremost.  And with that knowledge, they get away with it almost all the time.

---

It's not clear to me that you've already been scammed, or if someone opened a return request and you haven't accepted it yet?  Whatever you do, don't deny the return. That's the quickest way to lose.

I've seen cases similar to yours. Someone I converse with sold high end vacuum and the buyer returned an antique fan (worthless), some water bottles, and autotrader magazines.

Sometimes you get the benevolent scammer. They return something similar but in worse condition. Essentially upgrading their own collection on your dime leaving you bag holding.

You'll lose the "Problem with this transaction" but win the "Appeal".

That's just the game. eBay knows it's a problem. I think they're just absorbing it like Amazon does. The difference is you have to do more work to be made whole. But in all cases I've seen, the appeal works and defrauded sellers are refunded in whole. Even my friend who got scammed on a vacuum got refunded.

eBay's eating the fraud. There's no real solution here other than the one that they're following. 

The upside is in my demographic, return fraud is really low. I get my fair share of returns, but 99 percent of them are not fraudulent. Some markets are different (think console games and car audio).

So have you been defrauded yet? Or are you anticipating it?

[mtgraves7984]

Has anyone actually managed to get Ebay to actually side with the seller even when clear fraud is evident?

@hiiragi_tsukasa 

I have read of sellers receiving courtesy refunds after eBay forced a full refund to the buyer. The rub is... if you don't approve the refund (and eBay intervenes), you get a mark to your selling account. But you might get your money back. Conversely, if you issue the refund (when the item is returned to you), you can't appeal. Good luck, however it goes.

[hiiragi_tsukasa]

I already accepted the return,  but considering looking at the buyers history - I am anticipating it though,  ebay only gave 4 options as per usual ~

1) Accept the return you pay shipping

2) Full refund and the buyer keeps everything (LOL) - alot of scammers try to bank on you doing this for obvious reasons

3) Partial refund (If the person in question is, indeed trying to commit return fraud, even if you over this-  they never accept it but why would they?  They can get their money back and keep your items)

4) Contact the seller (Done, and the person in question was quite nasty and conceding - tried to reason with the person courtesy but no, thats why I'm more inclined to believe the person in question is a probably doing some sort of return fraud)

[rugerskick]

Ebay SOMETIMES eats some of the fraud.  Ebay does not always eat the fraud.  I firsthand know that much.

[hiiragi_tsukasa]

This is what feedback is for, to see if the seller or buyer is above board and legitimate.   After all, if you saw an item for sale and it was a good price, you wanted it and decided to check and the seller had a poor rating with a multitude of negative reviews all with clear motive for lying and cheating, you'd think twice right?

Often, the biggest scammers on ebay are the ones that do it over a period of time - staying just below the radar to keep your feedback rosy and clean, then periodically do it again - and as many here know,  it is far easier for buyers to abuse ebays policies than sellers,    sellers usually have one avenue and that is appealing.

[rugerskick]

Contacting the seller is usually a good first move as it shows and puts you on record trying to deal with the problem and working it out before next steps need taking.  Ebay does say they do take notice of you trying to work on the issue in good faith.

[hiiragi_tsukasa]

Yeah, I know and this is another problem in its own right this is why I'm watching very carefully to see how the package, everything is returned - if everything checks out, looks exactly how I sent it then no problem.

But, considering that my gut feeling is telling me this person actively trying to commit some sort of return fraud,  It'll most likely go down to an appeal process but hey,  it could somehow work out and I receive everything to relist with no problems, but we all know when something sounds fishy, it usually is and this whole thing smells of it.

[hiiragi_tsukasa]

This is exactly why I try to avoid selling on ebay these days, Poshmark and Mercari are probably even worse for high ticket items and I guess the moral of the story is, don't sell anything online that you can't afford to lose because chances are, someone may try to scam you out of it.