Living & Selling Abroad from a USA registered account. Local buyers are charged VAT. Help!

[lappytoppy]

I spent weeks discussing this with eBay support, and finally gave up after one night involving 4 hours and 12 transfers to "specialized departments" (yes, that was just one night of the several weeks). I am a citizen of the USA, and my eBay account was registered in the USA. I can not sell from any eBay account that was not registered in the USA (that took 10 days with support to learn). 

So now I live in the EU, my products are purchased and located with me in the EU with Euros, and I sell/ship to buyers in the EU paying with Euros. But because my eBay account was registered originally in the USA, my buyers are automatically being charged VAT. eBay tells me that there is no solution to this, my buyers will always be charged VAT even though it should not apply to them. Furthermore, they say there is no way for me to pay the VAT on behalf of my customers. The result is that nobody will buy from me, I've had a couple of people mistakenly buy from me only to cancel the order with messages like "Why am I being charged VAT if you're in the EU?"

Is anybody familiar with this, is there any solution?

[lappytoppy]

I'm finished with the citizenship attorney, and I'm a full Greek citizen, just waiting on my tax documents. There is nothing to risk.

Yall are kinda suspicious around here.. But I seriously know nothing about drop shipping, I really just stuffed a bunch of laptops, SSDs, and RAM (all of which I used or refurbished personally, as a certified reseller in the US) and my only listings with stock photos are the LG headset, which is in a sealed box and in Texas, and the Xiaomi phone, which is in a sealed box and I purchased while here in Europe. The SSDs I think I took all the photos myself… and the beautiful laptop photos are taken by a professional photographer that I paid for, not stock photos.

That's all the boring truth, but if you guys are more entertained by an undocumented immigrant drop shipper who is selling across borders illegally, um idk I guess that is more interesting, enjoy?

[lacemaker3]

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@lappytoppy wrote:

Thank you for responding!

The problem with that is that I am a US citizen, so I do not have any foreign bank accounts or foreign documents. So when creating an EU account, I am not able to verify the seller profile to my knowledge. After a lot of trial and error, it seems that I'm just not eligible to sell from an EU registered account.

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You should be able to open a bank account in the country where you are living, as long as you are living there legally.

You will have to tell them you are a USA citizen, and give them your SSN, because of USA law. The USA requires foreign banks to report to the USA when a USA citizen/permanent resident opens a foreign bank account, if the balance is over a certain amount. You as a USA citizen will also be required to report your foreign bank accounts (FBAR - Foreign Bank Account Report) if the total balances are over a certain amount ($10,000 at the moment) at any time.

As long as you have a bank account in the country where you are living, you can register an account in that country to sell. It looks like you are in Greece, which is part of the EU, so you should be able to sell there, as long as you get your paperwork in Greece straightened out, and open a bank account there, as a USA citizen.

[lappytoppy]

Matter of fact, I tried relisting on the .ie website using my .com account and it worked just fine. I'm not sure if it will make a difference with the VAT, but it seems to be less complicated than what I was doing before and the listings are coming up in euro instead of $.

Thanks for the advice!

[lacemaker3]

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@lappytoppy wrote:

Wow, that's quite a key piece of information.. Makes it sound like this whole saga with eBay support was senseless to begin with.

But it was all started due to my first few EU customers complaining, like this message I received "i cannot buy this ssd cause VAT is 11 usd,i'm from Croatia EU..." and the other customer I mentioned getting charged $12 VAT.

I assumed this meant there was something abnormal happening with VAT charges…

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I looked at your current and ended listings. They were all posted on eBay USA, and are being sold in US$. That is probably what is causing the confusion with VAT.

For other responders who are not that familiar with VAT, it is like sales tax, but with one major difference. When someone in Europe buys something that is sold in Europe, the VAT is *always* included in the price on the label. VAT is *never* added on at the cash register, or at checkout. When a buyer in Europe buys something from a European eBay site, the price they are shown has the VAT amount for the buyer's location added in automatically (the purchase price is increased by the VTA percentage), so they do have to pay for it, but it's transparent. They don't see it (and probably don't think about it much).

But when items are listed on eBay USA www.ebay.com, the VAT is not included in the price. If a buyer in Europe views a listing on eBay USA, the VAT is treated like sales tax and added on at checkout. If they view and buy the same listing on an eBay site in Europe, the VAT is supposedly/reportedly added to the listing price automatically, like it normally is in Europe.

@lappytoppy, because you were listing your items on eBay USA, and if your buyers were viewing them and buying them on eBay USA, then the VAT is added on at checkout and it's visible. Most likely, if they had viewed and purchased the items on an eBay site in Europe, the price would have been increased by the amount of the VAT (usually 20-25%) instead of being a separate line item added on at checkout.

[lacemaker3]

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@lappytoppy wrote:

I'm definitely not an expert on EU taxes, but my understanding is that at least between Shengen Area countries, there is no VAT. In any case, with my last buyer being charged about $12 VAT on a $40 purchase, eBay confirmed they were being charged for an international transaction by their home country.

But without getting into my life story, yes I've been in Greece for a year now only semi-documented and with no visa. I came here with a US passport due to an illness in the family, and wound up pursuing citizenship. I now technically have dual USA-Greek citizenship, with a Greek national ID, but am still waiting to get my Greek tax number which is required for a bank account.

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Congratulations on getting your Greek citizenship.

As I said before, you should be able to get a ban account there as a USA citizen, by providing your SSN. If you want to wait until you get your Greek tax ID number, that's your choice, but you won't be able to sell (or legally work, as far I understand it) until you get your Greek tax ID number.

SOME THINGS YOU REALLY NEED TO KNOW, RIGHT NOW:

1. The USA taxes it's citizens on their world income, whether they live or work in the USA or not. You will owe income tax to the IRS on your entire income, and you will need to file tax returns to the IRS every year. Depending on the terms of the tax treaty between the USA and Greece, you will probably be able to get credit for the income tax that you pay to Greece to reduce your USA tax liability. Or vice versa, if you pay tax to the USA you may be able to get a tax credit for that in Greece. You need to find a good accountant, advisor, or tax lawyer who is familiar with the USA-Greece tax treaty to advise you on this.
2. When you get your bank account there, if the balances are ever more than $10,000, you will need to also file the FBAR (Foreign Bank Account Report)every year, which is separate from your tax return.
3. This will be true as long as you are a USA citizen, no matter where you live. The only way to avoid paying taxes to the USA is to formally give up your USA citizenship. There are some very major consequences to doing that, and it can cost a huge amount of money in some cases. You have to have a tax advisor that is familiar with the requirements and your situation to advise you how to do this without a huge tax liability, if you want to do this.

[lacemaker3]

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@pjcdn2005 wrote:
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@lacemaker3  Are you familiar with how this would work for the op?

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Yes ... I've done my best and I hope it helps ...

[maxine*j]

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@lappytoppy wrote:

I'm finished with the citizenship attorney, and I'm a full Greek citizen, just waiting on my tax documents. There is nothing to risk... Yall are kinda suspicious around here.......  entertained by an undocumented immigrant drop shipper who is selling across borders illegally, um idk I guess that is more interesting, enjoy?

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@lappytoppy 

Had you simply said from the get-go that you have Greek citizenship and waiting for some tax documents needed in order to change your account to one based in Greece, and where not sure how to proceed in the meantime, I would have had nothing at all to say to you. 

I worked in immigration matters for a long time and I saw many people cause themselves no end of harm, nearly always unintentionally and innocently, by not understanding their status.

I was trying to offer you my best, and friendly advice.  Sorry to have wasted your time and my own.

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[lacemaker3]

@maxine*j, you have nothing to apologize for.

Based on the available information, the indications are that the OP has some major misunderstandings about their current immigration and taxation situation, both in their new country Greece and their natal country USA, which could cost them dearly if they do not correct their misinformation and take appropriate steps very quickly.

You and I have both tried to help here ... our backgrounds and experiences are different but complimentary, I believe ... hopefully @lappytoppy will pay attention and listen, because we have both sincerely tried to help and shared information that is sorely needed, based on what they have shared.

[stainlessenginecovers]

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@lappytoppy wrote:

Wow, that's quite a key piece of information.. Makes it sound like this whole saga with eBay support was senseless to begin with.

But it was all started due to my first few EU customers complaining, like this message I received "i cannot buy this ssd cause VAT is 11 usd,i'm from Croatia EU..." and the other customer I mentioned getting charged $12 VAT.

I assumed this meant there was something abnormal happening with VAT charges…

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@lappytoppy just ask those 'complainers' "What would you pay if you were to buy that part down the street from your house? Does your country/state require a "Value Added Tax (VAT), Sales Tax, Transaction Tax...whatever it costs). 

[maxine*j]

@lacemaker3 

Thanks.  The feeling is growing on me, though, that on these boards the candle is not worth the game.

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[syrosdeals]

Ebay doesny Care, I lived in Greece over 10yesrs, always been an eBay user... 6 months ago I moved to the states, had to create new account because for some reason eBay doesn't allow you to change your info... Result? I got permanently suspended because I guess having two accounts posed a risk to the ebay community... Now I am looked out, and have a 3000 dollar watch already shipped.... 

[ebooksdiva]

@syrosdeals 

You're a bit late replying to this old thread from May 2023.

[syrosdeals]

The truth tho

[kh-phdan]

Hello Everyone,

Due to the age of the thread, it has been closed to further replies. Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue discussing this topic.

Thanks for understanding!