Liability, refunds?

[cordial_lemon]

I'm not entirely sure how to put this.

Hi. I'm a seller and I've only started to realize what an amateur I really am at this. I sold someone a Motorola Moto Prepaid phone with the SIM card removed so they could reactivate it with a new card, but I'm in a complicated spot.

They want to use this phone internationally and did not previously inform me about this beforehand. As such, they are trying to refund the phone as Verizon is apparently retiring the Moto as they are switching to 5G services. Something along those lines.

Normally I would be happy to give them a refund and let things be, but I feel conflicted about this situation. I just barely have enough money in my Paypal to cover my current eBay fees, and I am very, very broke in my actual bank account as well. I will be spending what's left of my money on an upcoming power bill that if not paid will leave me in an even more precarious situation than this.

I ask you, how liable am I for refunding the full amount if the buyer wanted to use the phone internationally when I sold the phone from within the United States?

Please give me a brutally honest answer, I want to know if I'm overthinking this and I should just go through with trying to process the refund as normal.

[goodluckselling]

I am sorry for the tough position you are in.  So here is how it works.

If the buyer opens a not as described return request.  You will have to issue a return shipping label at your expense and issue a full refund once you get the item delivered back to you.

Since you have a no returns policy on this item the buyer will not be able to return for remorse reasons.

Here the problem.  Since the item will not work as intended the buyer will more than likely just say it will not work which turns into a not as described request.

Good Luck Selling!

[myboardid · Accepted solution]

Insist they return the phone before you give them a refund (eBay will force you to refund, so that isn't even a consideration).  Pay for the return shipping, you will have no choice.  You MUST find a way to pay for this, as eBay will send you to collections if you don't and will ruin your credit. 

[ohnojoey]

"Normally I would be happy to give them a refund and let things be"

Please give me a brutally honest answer

Get back to normal because being broke isn't a reason.

I have been there done that, couldn't even afford food at one low point many years ago. You have bigger problems than this phone deal. Figure that out.

A certain amount of funds in paypal should be considered untouchable as you sell. for reasons like this.

Even if the buyer was wrong, as said above, a not as described case will result in ebay refunding your money, so yes, you will be liable, wrong or right, if that is what the buyer does.

You sold the same phone in a week?... March 2, March 9, same pictures, same listing?

[myjunqueyourtreasure]

I do have one question. What do you mean by the buyer wants to use this phone internationally? Are they overseas and want to use it there? Was the shipping address in USA ?

Have they opened an ebay case or was this just in messages?

Whatever you do - do NOT refund until you get the phone back.

[juststuffisell]

Tough spot my friend. I think the average person has been in your shoes at some point.

I'll give you some advise, hope you take it as it can change your long term situation; Get Dave Ramseys Financial Peace & total money makeover books. When money allows, find a financial peace class in your area. They are normally held by church organizations. It is a life changing thing.

Relative to the phone, unfortunately the buyer, if they choose to, can return it. Don't just refund, tell them they need to file for return through eBay. The return process will buy you a little time.

I don't know what assets you have to liquidate that have value, but right now you should be liquidating whatever you can. My oldest son delivered Pizza for Dominoes to make extra money during his internship at UNCW. You could do that and probably make an extra 300 dollars a week part time - that would probably go a long way to helping out.

Good luck!

[gew6463]

@juststuffisell  Excellent advice on the Dave Ramsay recommendation! He has helped so many countless people. Our church holds the classes (open to public) every couple years. It can be life-changing!

OP, I'm sorry for your difficult & stressful situation right now. When we had 3 kids under 5, my husband worked 40+ hours a week at one job, then delivered Pizzas in the evening (weekends you make great tip money that's instant $$cash in your pocket).

Unfortunately, none of that is the buyer's problem (I don't mean that harshly, just the facts). I have a ton of medical bills right now to pay, but I always keep a certain amount of money that is 'untouchable' in my Paypal account, because you have to be prepared for the 'what ifs' like this as a seller. Ebay waits for no one when it comes to refunding a customer. I know it's hard when things are tight to do that (not touch the reserves), but it is just a necessary part of being a seller here.  

Since it takes a little bit of time for the shipping back, perhaps lower some prices on already listed items for fast cash, or list some popular items as below-the-going price to get quick sales. Sometimes as much as I hate to do that (especially on a popular item) if I need the money bad enough, it can make all the difference. As mentioned above, we have all been in your shoes at one time or the other. Take a little time to worry/stress, then make a plan of action. Wishing you many sales in the next week to hopefully make a difference. 

[femmefan1946]

Absolutely.

Tell the buyer to return the phone for a full refund.

Do not, at this point, send return postage. Save that for an eBay Not As Described dispute.

Leave return shipping in your buyer's hands.

ALSO.

Since it seems possible that the buyer is now overseas, you only have to pay return shipping from the address you shipped to.

If, as mentioned, at all.

When you get the phone back, refund the original payment. Not the return shipping cost.

Attach a credit card to your Paypal account.

This will allow you to pay the refund, and the pay off the card as you have the money.

[kensgiftshop]

If you didn't mention in the listing that the phone would not work internationally and they file an INAD, you would have to provide return shipping and refund once you get the phone back.

Did you ship the phone directly to the buyer or did you use the GSP?

[tools*]

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@myboardid wrote:

Insist they return the phone before you give them a refund (eBay will force you to refund, so that isn't even a consideration).  Pay for the return shipping, you will have no choice.  You MUST find a way to pay for this, as eBay will send you to collections if you don't and will ruin your credit. 

---

A business can't report anything to a credit bureau without your social security number.

[treasure.hunter.d]

I looked at both of your listings for phones. They both specify "No Returns" They also both use the ebay catalogue info for that phone. The specifications in the info show clearly what bands the phone will work on and do not mention using it specifically in any International locations.

Contrary to what some people are telling you, you do not just have to cave and refund. You do need to find out where it is the person wants to use the phone and if it is outside of the operating bands that are specified, and the phone is indeed unlocked (you know this for certain) then you are 100% under no obligation to refund.

A buyer cannot make assumptions about things you have not specified and/or promised and expect to hold you to those assumptions. they open a case with ebay you fight it and have all of your info ready in the regard I mentioned.

Best of luck.

[fashunu4eeuh]

Hi, i see you are a newer seller who likely is listing with restrictions and PayPal holds. You have 10 items up. Is that your limit? If you are able, i would list items for higher dollar amounts if possible. And one item is listed for free? Why is that? What is your dollar limit? Can you raise your prices a bit?

Since some of your items are listed for under $10, i would remove Best Offer. Once you are dealing with single digits,   BO won’t make much of a difference as a marketing tool. Plus, you need every dollar now. Also, at these price points, you are eligible for PayPal’s Micro-payments program, which can save you a bit on PP fees. Here’s a link with more info on that.

https://www.paypal.com/uk/webapps/mpp/micropayments

Good luck to you moving forward. 

[berserkerplanet]

>>as Verizon is apparently retiring the Moto as they are switching to 5G services. Something along those lines

There isn't a single 5G phone on the market, and there won't be for a long time. They haven't even figured out how to make them realistically work well as 5G frequencies don't penetrate/propagate well, there are no integrated SOCs with 5G modems yet, so phones will be big and expensive initially.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/12/dont-buy-a-5g-smartphone-at-least-not-for-a-while/

AT&T is lying and saying they have 5G with their 5GE re-badged 4G LTE. US 5G is highly unlikely to ever be found internationally.

For all intents and purposes - there is no 5G now and won't be for a while, and even when there is it won't replace 4G LTE for many years, so doubt that Verizon is retiring 4G phones.

The 5G thing in the context of this sale/case is a red herring.


But that may not matter. If the buyer insists on returning the phone, and opens a not as described (SNAD) case you really have no choice. If buyer opens a remorse case you can deny the return as that listing was a no returns listing. If buyer does open a SNAD case, and is overseas and used a reshipper, you may prevail - assuming you sent it to the buyer here in the US, you would only have to issue a return label for the domestic return. Would be the buyer's problem getting it back to the US to the reshipper in the timeframes, and likely not worth the cost to them for a $50 phone.

[ohnojoey]

Apparently, if I'm not mistaken, this phone was sold then returned once already, then relisted and bought and now another return soon?

Maybe the phone is jinxed. Third times a charm?

[myjunqueyourtreasure]

@cordial_lemon 

Breadcrumb for the OP