Free Returns Stat Update - increased 0.5% to 4.6% on Women's Clothing

[orangehound]

I've had free returns on select items over the last 60 days.  It is a limited sample size, but I thought I would post here in case anyone was interested in the stats:

• Return rate of Women's Clothing rose from 0.5% (buyer pays) to 4.6% (free-return shipping)
• Return rate of Kitchen & Dining Goods unchanged from 0% (buyer pays) to 0% (free-return shipping)

I've had one instance of someone buying multiple sizes, trying them on, and then returning the one that fit best.   It hasn't come back to me yet (so I don't know whether I'll have to refund for both items or just one) ... but eBay charged me a return shipping fee for the combined weight rather than the weight of a single item.

[bubbleman2010]

I had 1 out of 12 that changed their mind after they had paid for the item and decided they didn't need it. The other 11 lied blamed it on me so I'd have to pay return shipping...

[bubbleman2010]

Thats why it would be interesting for the OP to look at their dashboard return ratio and see how many free return items are being counted against them....

[bubbleman2010]

I have 12 but they are only counting 10 and shows a 2.76% return ratio both numbers put me in the 14% FVF group in Sept...

[getitright1234]

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@aruyt75 wrote:

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@getitright1234 wrote:

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@aruyt75 wrote:

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@orangehound wrote:

I've had one instance of someone buying multiple sizes, trying them on, and then returning the one that fit best.   It hasn't come back to me yet (so I don't know whether I'll have to refund for both items or just one) ... but eBay charged me a return shipping fee for the combined weight rather than the weight of a single item.

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I do that on Amazon.  They promote free returns, and there is no stipulation that you can't buy multiple sizes with the outright intention of returning one.  I'm not arguing with you BTW, I'm just pointing out that many buyers (including myself) will buy multiple sizes and keep only one.  I'm assuming the sellers understand that's almost certainly going to happen, yet still decide it's worth it to foot the bill on return shipping.

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So, we have a buyer who is admitting they are buying multiples to see which one fits better and returning all others when Free Shipping is offered.   So, those sellers who get the returns will be losing money AND punished for those returns via ebay counting those metrics against them.    My head  is shaking right now!

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Well, I have no idea how sellers are "punished" other than having to foot the bill for return shipping, at least with regards to Amazon.  Again, if a seller promotes free return shipping, especially for NIB items like clothes or shoes, why is it so unreasonable to take advantage of that as a buyer?  It's not like I buy something, wear it for something, then return it.  I place my order, order arrives, I try both on, and return, usually the same day.  I'm not waiting for 29 days then returning a used shirt or shoes as new.  Maybe there are people who do that, but I don't.  I also don't "fake" a defective return to get free return shipping.  If I buy something that does not offer free return shipping, I either keep it, or pay to ship it back, if it's simply a change of mind. 

But if eBay is "punishing" sellers who have free returns somehow, then that is just plain stupid.  I'm not sure why you are so outraged by this, sellers are not forced to offer free returns, and I'm sure a company like Amazon understands that this is going to happen, especially if they are going to be selling "fit" items like shoes and clothes.  

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I am not outraged by your or any buyer who select sellers who offer free returns and use that to their advantage,  I get it.   I do have a question for you: when you do make those multiple returns, what do you choose as your reason for return.    

1.  It did not fit.

2.  I found it cheaper elsewhere.

3.  I changed my mind

4.  Not as described

Since we know online selling platform are monitoring buyer returns, I believe buyers who shop as you do:  buying multiple sizes and returning those that do not fit, depending on the platform will be  labeled  a serial returner in particular for return reasons: 1-3.

 I am incline to believe once buyers become aware they are reaching that unacceptable threshold of returns, they will then start claiming #4 of which they are less likely to be punished by the platform, for those buyers are placing the need for the return on the seller.   

Please do not take any of this personally, it just an observation as to how sellers believe they are being put into a no win situation.  It had been suggested, those buyers who want Free Return Shipping are not likely to use it much; however, the manner in which you use Free Return Shipping leaves one to conclude Free Return Shipping will be on the rise. 

[sharingtheland]

I don't remember all of the details (Freudian) but I got metrics from ebay on 20,000+ clothing sales and I was above the average for returns in my "peer group."  I think ebay was using 1% or 1.5% as the average and I was 1.6% or something like that.

That was for SNAD returns.  

I had no idea I ever sold 20,000 clothing widgets.  That's from the beginning of time, bubbleman, not 18 months.  So, was ebay giving me a BIG ol' heads up as a favor?  

I no longer sell clothing, or very rarely, so it was interesting that the category most likely to have SNADs was the one chosen to make me shape up.

I'll have to try to find/recreate the helpful information I received.   This post will maybe make sense then.

[thallidguy]

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@orangehound wrote:

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Again, it is a small sample size.  I was hoping others with experience might share their stats.

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I can't even remember the last time I had a return request, so I have no meaningful comparisons for you.

[orangehound]

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@getitright1234 wrote:

PS: I can see buyers selecting SNAD even with FREE SHIPPING RETURNS and you know why:   buyers  know their returns numbers are being watched,  so they would be less likely to choose, I changed my mine as that reason would more likely count more against them rather than faking a SNAD.

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There is no evidence to suggest that eBay punishes sellers for returns, even when the returns are fraudulent.   Basically, returns cost eBay nothing, so there is no incentive for them to curb returns.

[ymeagainlord]

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@orangehound wrote:

 It hasn't come back to me yet (so I don't know whether I'll have to refund for both items or just one) ... but eBay charged me a return shipping fee for the combined weight rather than the weight of a single item.

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You would think after all these years they could at least get the basics right.

[lovtaco0]

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@bubbleman2010wrote:

Now you just need to review your return ratio to see how many returns are getting tagged as SNAD. I've got 10 so I'm getting all prepared to move up to the 14% FVF group....

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Where are you getting  numbers from (10 SNADs or 1% SNAD rate) that push someone into the higher FVF? I can't find where eBay published the number or percentage rate that will be considered "too high".

The lookback will be 3 months or 12 months depending on your sales.

What transactions does eBay use to calculate my service metrics?

We use your recent transaction volume to determine your service metrics.

• If you have 400 or more transactions during the previous three months on an eBay site, we will use transactions from that 3-month lookback period to calculate your service metrics.
• If you have fewer than 400 transactions during the previous three months, we will use transactions from your 12-month lookback period to calculate your service metrics.

[southern*sweet*tea]

I am a firm believer in an online seller accepting returns, yes, even those that sell pre-owned and vintage.  No returns = no no no, it just looks bad to buyers.   If a seller can  offer "free" returns by covering expenses and still make a profit, that's even better.

That said...

If I sold clothing, no way no how would I even remotely consider doing "free" returns.  Nope, nope, nope, ain't happenin'.   Buyer paid returns, period.

[watchingbands]

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@bubbleman2010 wrote:

Most folks aren't aware of whats coming down the pipe in Sept. with the new return metrics 1% or 10 SNAD and they aren't saying what the timeframe is sellers will be paying the 14% FVF. I suspect the timeframe will be 18 months thats whats being shown on your dashboard as the longest timeframe....

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That doesn't exactly seem fair, considering that ebay already made it hard to correct a wrongfully opened snad, let alone when they straight up STOPPED doing anything about them, even if the buyer literally says they opened it wrong. You think we are going to be dinged, even tho their previous policy would make those numbers completely skewed?

[aruyt75]

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@getitright1234 wrote:

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@aruyt75 wrote:

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@getitright1234 wrote:

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@aruyt75 wrote:

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@orangehound wrote:

I've had one instance of someone buying multiple sizes, trying them on, and then returning the one that fit best.   It hasn't come back to me yet (so I don't know whether I'll have to refund for both items or just one) ... but eBay charged me a return shipping fee for the combined weight rather than the weight of a single item.

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I do that on Amazon.  They promote free returns, and there is no stipulation that you can't buy multiple sizes with the outright intention of returning one.  I'm not arguing with you BTW, I'm just pointing out that many buyers (including myself) will buy multiple sizes and keep only one.  I'm assuming the sellers understand that's almost certainly going to happen, yet still decide it's worth it to foot the bill on return shipping.

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So, we have a buyer who is admitting they are buying multiples to see which one fits better and returning all others when Free Shipping is offered.   So, those sellers who get the returns will be losing money AND punished for those returns via ebay counting those metrics against them.    My head  is shaking right now!

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Well, I have no idea how sellers are "punished" other than having to foot the bill for return shipping, at least with regards to Amazon.  Again, if a seller promotes free return shipping, especially for NIB items like clothes or shoes, why is it so unreasonable to take advantage of that as a buyer?  It's not like I buy something, wear it for something, then return it.  I place my order, order arrives, I try both on, and return, usually the same day.  I'm not waiting for 29 days then returning a used shirt or shoes as new.  Maybe there are people who do that, but I don't.  I also don't "fake" a defective return to get free return shipping.  If I buy something that does not offer free return shipping, I either keep it, or pay to ship it back, if it's simply a change of mind. 

But if eBay is "punishing" sellers who have free returns somehow, then that is just plain stupid.  I'm not sure why you are so outraged by this, sellers are not forced to offer free returns, and I'm sure a company like Amazon understands that this is going to happen, especially if they are going to be selling "fit" items like shoes and clothes.  

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I am not outraged by your or any buyer who select sellers who offer free returns and use that to their advantage,  I get it.   I do have a question for you: when you do make those multiple returns, what do you choose as your reason for return.    

1.  It did not fit.

2.  I found it cheaper elsewhere.

3.  I changed my mind

4.  Not as described

Since we know online selling platform are monitoring buyer returns, I believe buyers who shop as you do:  buying multiple sizes and returning those that do not fit, depending on the platform will be  labeled  a serial returner in particular for return reasons: 1-3.

 I am incline to believe once buyers become aware they are reaching that unacceptable threshold of returns, they will then start claiming #4 of which they are less likely to be punished by the platform, for those buyers are placing the need for the return on the seller.   

Please do not take any of this personally, it just an observation as to how sellers believe they are being put into a no win situation.  It had been suggested, those buyers who want Free Return Shipping are not likely to use it much; however, the manner in which you use Free Return Shipping leaves one to conclude Free Return Shipping will be on the rise. 

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Sorry, I mis-interpreted your reply, I apologize for the tone.  For your question, I choose "too small/large".  Obviously, based on me purchasing multiple sizes, the returned item will be because of sizing.  I don't know if these types of returns would start to label me as a "serial returner", or as being unacceptable.  I think if people are constantly returning items that are not labeled as free returns, and are not "fit" items like clothes, then I think that becomes a problem, and the website/venue may flag that buyer's account.  

I have nothing to base this on, but my guess, on fit items, is that Amazon and the like realize that it's smarter business-wise to have a buyer make ONE purchase of multiple sizes, then do ONE return.  Again, there has to be some basic understanding on these fit items, that there will be returns, it's just the cost of doing business in that arena.  If the fit item does not offer free returns, but a buyer still tries to return them under the guise of "defective", not only is that wrong, it SHOULD be a flag on their account, especially if it becomes serial.  Another example is Zappos, which offers free returns on EVERY purchase, because again, they are a shoe seller.  They have built free returns into the cost of their merch.  I'm sure Amazon works the exact same way with their clothing/shoes which have free returns.  There are clear abusers of returns, who will return something not in the condition purchased, but NIB "fit" items are destined to be returned at a higher rate.  It's a separate debate if free returns should be offered at all, but I would suspect that would hurt online sales of these kinds of items.

One last point, the problem with this when it comes to eBay is, once again, eBay does not sell anything.  They don't stock anything, all they do is provide a venue for sellers, some of which are huge big box, name sellers, and some of which are like you and me, smaller sellers.  Free returns doesn't work for me, and maybe not many small sellers, because we don't sell as many items, and don't have additional postage discounts.  If offering free returns creates an uneven playing field, whereby the sellers who simply offer free returns gets you more visibility in search, I don't think that's fair.  

[lexismah]

Watch the video "Selling Metrics & Shipping" on the May 23 weekly chat. It was so much info I had to take notes! Be prepared. 

If you're a small seller, less than 10 SNADs in any category will not be counted.

@orangehound  If you have too many SNADs, your fvf increases by 4%. 

[getitright1234]

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@bubbleman2010 wrote:

I had 1 out of 12 that changed their mind after they had paid for the item and decided they didn't need it. The other 11 lied blamed it on me so I'd have to pay return shipping...

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An unconscionable contract is one that is so one-sided that it is unfair to one party and therefore unenforceable under law. It is a type of contract that leaves one party with no real, meaningful choice, usually due to major differences in bargaining power between the parties.

[mczombies]

"Considering how saturated the clothing market here has been for a long time now, I have to wonder if shaking some sellers out of it would be a bad thing on the whole. For those who can stick it out, the tone of the market would probably improve, the seller-to-buyer ratio would improve for them."

That is a terrible thing to say--selfish, superior, and rude--also extremely short sighted. Yep--let's all hope that some sellers get cut so others can make it--like we aren't all in this together. I understand that we aren't sitting around the campfire singing songs, but seriously--in this time of great stress and worry for most of the sellers here--you actually are proposing that it is a GOOD thing that (most likely) eBay will lose tons of small sellers? How insensitive can you be? 

eBay would do much better to lose the overseas garbage sellers--the ones that sell cheap junk, yet feel free to list it as "Vintage."  NOT the little sellers that built this platform. For now it is clothing, but soon it will be EVERYTHING--if people don't wise up. Look at what has happened already just in the past year--million listing book sellers, comic sellers, sports cards, and a brand new HUGE vintrage eBay sponsored (or corporate sponsored--IDK, just know that they got huge very quickly) store that is selling TONS of collectibles. Are you enjoying all the people that went under due to those mega-stores coming in?

Do you not realize what happens when you allow corporations to have a monopoly? When they have the market cornered, then GONE are all the low prices, gone is the necessity for compassionate business that doesn't violate human rights--gone are your CHOICES. And yet, here you are--more than willing to just hand it all over--as long as it isn't directly affecting YOU, right? Well, guess what buddy--they are coming for you next. I'll be sure to dance on your grave too.