Dispute w/ buyer: I agreed to a return but haven't received item, buyer just filed a payment dispute

[sugar_witch_vintage]

I sold a $1,500 item in early January and received positive feedback from the buyer at that time. On February 5th they filed a request for a return claiming the item was defective. I don't agree with their assessment - these are diamond earrings and were accompanied by a certified evaluation and description of each stone which was clearly shown in the listing. Nevertheless I agreed to accept the return with the understanding that the items would be returned to me at which point I would submit a full refund. The buyer then closed the return and has subsequently filed a payment dispute. I'll gladly issue a refund if I receive the item back but I suspect the buyer is trying to have it both ways - keep the item *and* receive a full refund. I reported the issue to eBay but am concerned I will not receive the item back. Any suggestions on how to handle? Thanks.

[froggyjump]

Sorry this happened. One idea; If you receive it at the post office, have your postman present as you open it. Video tape you opening it and focus very closely on the item to ensure it is what you sent.  I live in a small town so this is never an issue, in fact, our postman is also the postal mail inspector for our small county.

[chapeau-noir]

eBay does not accept videos as proof of anything - they are too easy to fake.  

@sugar_witch_vintage  eBay's policy on payment disputes here.  Hopefully you can get some help with this!

[espresso_warehouse]

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@chapeau-noir wrote:

eBay does not accept videos as proof of anything - they are too easy to fake.  

@sugar_witch_vintage  eBay's policy on payment disputes here.  Hopefully you can get some help with this!

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They did take photos and videos as evidence during escalations I had in both 2020 and 2021. I presented both via email to their escalation team accompanied with an affidavit and won my appeals in both cases.

Has something changed?

[espresso_warehouse]

I had someone do this. They demanded I give them a partial refund and when I requested they return the item for a full refund they began to retaliate one step at a time, culminating in a box of rocks and a credit card dispute. The irony was they filed the CC dispute just as I was on the last step of refunding them through the eBay dispute. It was a $30 item and I just didn't want to bother with it that day, but wow they were impatient to get their 'money back' 🤣

There was some opportunity to submit evidence once the CC dispute was opened, both in writing and by uploading other evidence. Just wasn't worth it in my case.

Considering your buyer didn't even bother to send back a box of rocks I suspect you have a decent chance of winning it. It's also very likely they have done this before and are already on a few lists.

[siamdao]

Have a similar situation.  Buyer refused to send back the item after filing a 'just didn't like it' return.  he closed this and opened a financial institution case with claims that the item now didn't match the description.  This has been ongoing for several months now with no end in sight.   A couple of points.   Previously these types of returns could be handled by the seller with PayPal--we've had a couple of these before and we were able to sort them out directly with PayPal.  Now, there is no seller access to the payment platform as we are paid by eBay into Payoneer.  All eBay would do in the way of support for us as a seller was to allow us to upload a single photo.   No means to provide additional information was made available to us.  We are out of the loop.   It's just too easy for buyers to play this game.  They have the product, and are most likely getting use out of it.  We have no idea when or if we will get it back and presume that the buyer has no intention of returning it.

[dede394]

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@espresso_warehouse wrote:

I presented both via email to their escalation team accompanied with an affidavit and won my appeals in both cases.

Has something changed?

---

No, still the same: In an appeal

- eBay just paid you out of pocket, and

- the buyer kept their previously-awarded refund.

You got: A courtesy refund

Your buyer got: Away

[espresso_warehouse]

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@dede394 wrote:

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@espresso_warehouse wrote:

I presented both via email to their escalation team accompanied with an affidavit and won my appeals in both cases.

Has something changed?

---

No, still the same: In an appeal

- eBay just paid you out of pocket, and

- the buyer kept their previously-awarded refund.

You got: A courtesy refund

Your buyer got: Away

---

That buyer was suspended and their account, along with their messages to me and their feedback vanished. Within days of the appeal going in my favor.

You claimed "eBay does not accept videos as proof of anything" but that is false, unless something has very recently changed.

I don't want to fight, but I see many falsehoods here and I don't understand what the purpose of that is.

[laststopgeneralstore]

I would have to agree that video's and photos didn't work for me when I got scammed. Everyone's situation may be different I guess. I sold a brand new sealed KitchenAid mixer last year and as soon as the buyer got it, they opened a return and shipped it the same day. I thought this was kind of odd but whatever. Mind you, I sent this out in an 18x16x12 box. Few days go by and for whatever reason I had to sign for the return(this was only a $275 item and I've never had to sign for a return even for ones I've had that were higher), so I head over the post office and begin recording before walking in and I go up ask them for my package and he comes out with a "ready post" 12x10x8 box that the person bought and then taped shut with nothing in it and send it back. So now I have all the video and photos proof that I need and I go send it in to eBay. Well even with all of that they STILL refunded the buyer and put a defect on my account. In order for me to get SOME of my money back and the defect removed, eBay made me jump thru hoops and get a police report and then send it in. I remember the customer service rep even said that it doesn't matter if I had any video's or photos and that the only way for me to get any money back would be to get a police report. so I end up getting on and submitting it but still was out $100 between the original shipping, return shipping, and all of the fee's. eBay only refunded me what the item sold for. This person's account is still active to this day and they have scammed another person out of I think almost $200. So yea, maybe everyone else's situation is different but video and photo proof didn't do squat for me. This was the main reason why I moved away from selling electronics and now into clothing. Wayyy less returns & wayyyy less fraud.

[hawkwind5454]

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@espresso_warehouse wrote:

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@chapeau-noir wrote:

eBay does not accept videos as proof of anything - they are too easy to fake.  

@sugar_witch_vintage  eBay's policy on payment disputes here.  Hopefully you can get some help with this!

---

They did take photos and videos as evidence during escalations I had in both 2020 and 2021. I presented both via email to their escalation team accompanied with an affidavit and won my appeals in both cases.

Has something changed?

---

This is purely my own opinion, but from what I have seen here on the boards, and heard other people speak of, you would be the exception, and not the rule. 

[scentworthy]

I just went through this very same thing and no matter my evidence including a copy of the buyers message confirming the post office had accidentally returned it package to her and marked it delivered to my zip.  eBay said the buyer made an attempt and gave her a full refund and the item.  This isn't the first time eBay has done this.  They make all their income from buyer, no buyers, no eBay.

[dbfolks166mt]

     First dangerous item to list on eBay in the first place but that being said since there was an eBay case that was opened and closed you may want to read through the seller protections regarding chargebacks. You are 100% correct the buyer is trying to scam you out of the item. A lot of the seller protection for chargebacks is dependent on how you respond to the chargeback. 

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/selling-policies/payment-dispute-seller-protections?id=5293 

[espresso_warehouse]

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@hawkwind5454 wrote:

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@espresso_warehouse wrote:

---

@chapeau-noir wrote:

eBay does not accept videos as proof of anything - they are too easy to fake.  

@sugar_witch_vintage  eBay's policy on payment disputes here.  Hopefully you can get some help with this!

---

They did take photos and videos as evidence during escalations I had in both 2020 and 2021. I presented both via email to their escalation team accompanied with an affidavit and won my appeals in both cases.

Has something changed?

---

This is purely my own opinion, but from what I have seen here on the boards, and heard other people speak of, you would be the exception, and not the rule. 

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They take photos and video, as well as affidavits. I doubt the frequency with which this occurs is available information but to claim they don't take as evidence is false.

This shouldn't be about ego...we should endeavor to give out solid information to other sellers.

[espresso_warehouse]

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@laststopgeneralstore wrote:

I would have to agree that video's and photos didn't work for me when I got scammed. Everyone's situation may be different I guess. I sold a brand new sealed KitchenAid mixer last year and as soon as the buyer got it, they opened a return and shipped it the same day. I thought this was kind of odd but whatever. Mind you, I sent this out in an 18x16x12 box. Few days go by and for whatever reason I had to sign for the return(this was only a $275 item and I've never had to sign for a return even for ones I've had that were higher), so I head over the post office and begin recording before walking in and I go up ask them for my package and he comes out with a "ready post" 12x10x8 box that the person bought and then taped shut with nothing in it and send it back. So now I have all the video and photos proof that I need and I go send it in to eBay. Well even with all of that they STILL refunded the buyer and put a defect on my account. In order for me to get SOME of my money back and the defect removed, eBay made me jump thru hoops and get a police report and then send it in. I remember the customer service rep even said that it doesn't matter if I had any video's or photos and that the only way for me to get any money back would be to get a police report. so I end up getting on and submitting it but still was out $100 between the original shipping, return shipping, and all of the fee's. eBay only refunded me what the item sold for. This person's account is still active to this day and they have scammed another person out of I think almost $200. So yea, maybe everyone else's situation is different but video and photo proof didn't do squat for me. This was the main reason why I moved away from selling electronics and now into clothing. Wayyy less returns & wayyyy less fraud.

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I'm sorry to hear that. Fraud is rampant, and they don't do a lot to protect sellers. It does seem to be getting worse. However, in some circumstances they take a variety of evidence, including video. This was the case with me as recently as about a year ago. How they make their determination is not something anyone here can say for sure. Maybe the video didn't make any difference but they do take it and I did win the appeal in that case.

Most scammers will do the same scam over and over until they get caught so from my standpoint, even if I lose...maybe the next seller won't.

[downunder-61]

You are most lkely both posting at cross purposes.

In MBG cases eBay will not accept video or photo proof, too easily doctored as explained up thread, also in appeals media alone will not suffice - I have no doubt it was the accompanying affidavit [sworn statement] that was the over ruling factor in espresso's situation.

As dede stated, neither seller nor buyer won the case - eBay just paid out of pocket, and the buyer kept their previously awarded refund.