Did I miss a new policy / rule / guideline ?

[sharingtheland]

As @scene.of.the.crop stated, eBay's expectations are for delivery before the promised delivery date

Ummm...what is the definition of "expectations" and how does it impact sellers?   Does "expectation" trump "promised?"

Signed,

Maybe I Didn't Read Every Word In That Thread ?

[ted_200]

We were told by Trinton and/or other blues that sellers can call and get INR cases placed on hold if the tracking shows the item is clearly enroute. Is that no longer the case?

Maybe that's where the "significantly later" part comes in???  I have no clue. 

The whole thing is just ridiculous, it's about like trying to parse out the tax code.   At least tax code only changes once per year...

[rainbowcolorz]

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@Anonymous wrote:

---

@rainbowcolorz wrote:

@Anonymous you said: A seller is expected to ensure an item is delivered before the latest estimated delivery date has passed. If this does not happen, the buyer can open an item not received request. 

How can any seller ensure an item is delivered when the seller is not the one who delivers the item?

And what will happen in my situation???  I have kept my buyer apprised of the situation via eBay message that THE POST OFFICE (not me) has delayed her package's arrival.  

My situation is:  I have a 1-day handling time on all my listings.  My buyer paid for her item on Sunday 1/7/18.  I printed the label right then and went to the P.O. Monday, 1/8 and it was scanned immediately.

I went to their USPS Informed Delivery website  the other day and see the item is DELAYED and the message says it will not be delivered in the expected time.   I requested emails for ALL movement/updates.    So far nothing.  

It appears the package went from Hollywood, FL to Dearborn, MI and then to OpaLocka, FL and back to Dearborn, MI where it hasn't moved an inch since 1/13.  

Carrier:  USPS

Status:

ACCEPTED   IN TRANSIT                   DELIVERED

---

Hi @rainbowcolorz, since the seller selects the shipping couriers they are contracting with, they would be solely responsible for the actions of those couriers. Delays will happen from time to time and eBay has protection options for when these are related to natural disasters or weather events that prevent shipping on time. If a seller ships within his stated handling time as promised, then he generally has nothing to worry about in regards to shipping concerns, however, if the courier is regularly delivering items late then the seller would be empowered to explore alternative shipping options to improve their buyer's experience and ensure a higher level of service.

For your specific situation, we would wait to see if the item is successfully delivered and when this occurs before being able to speak definitively on what protections you are eligible for. I can confirm that since you shipped within your stated handling time, you would be in compliance with our on time shipping metrics and you would not be expected to take a return on this item if it were delivered late unless you are a part of our Guaranteed Delivery program. I recommend you keep an eye on the tracking information and stay in communication with the buyer to create the best experience for them and contact Customer Service if you have any transaction specific concerns.

---

Hi @Anonymous, 

Thanks for replying but I still cannot understand how eBay could hold ME responsible for the LATE or even NON delivery of an item that is shipped through any COURIER.   Even if, as you suggested, I use another Courier (UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc.) - the actual DELIVERY of the item, once it is in THEIR HANDS means it is now OUT OF MY CONTROL.    

The ONLY delivery I feel I should be/could be held accountable/responsible for is a delivery that I make MYSELF (ex: hand-delivery - from Seller to Buyer - which of course is not an option either).  

I am not a part of eBay's Guaranteed Delivery because from what I have read about that here, it seems there are more problems using that than regular USPS.   Even eBay cannot guarantee my customers an ON TIME shipment.  

BTW, I just now checked and the USPS has moved this item in shipment, thank goodness.  But it will definitely be late.

Since I have now contacted my buyer regarding USPS' late delivery, eBay has given her the option to RATE ME on "communication"  - whereas before, as I understand it, she would not have had that option.   

[Anonymous]

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@rainbowcolorz wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@rainbowcolorz wrote:

@Anonymous you said: A seller is expected to ensure an item is delivered before the latest estimated delivery date has passed. If this does not happen, the buyer can open an item not received request. 

How can any seller ensure an item is delivered when the seller is not the one who delivers the item?

And what will happen in my situation???  I have kept my buyer apprised of the situation via eBay message that THE POST OFFICE (not me) has delayed her package's arrival.  

My situation is:  I have a 1-day handling time on all my listings.  My buyer paid for her item on Sunday 1/7/18.  I printed the label right then and went to the P.O. Monday, 1/8 and it was scanned immediately.

I went to their USPS Informed Delivery website  the other day and see the item is DELAYED and the message says it will not be delivered in the expected time.   I requested emails for ALL movement/updates.    So far nothing.  

It appears the package went from Hollywood, FL to Dearborn, MI and then to OpaLocka, FL and back to Dearborn, MI where it hasn't moved an inch since 1/13.  

Carrier:  USPS

Status:

ACCEPTED   IN TRANSIT                   DELIVERED

---

Hi @rainbowcolorz, since the seller selects the shipping couriers they are contracting with, they would be solely responsible for the actions of those couriers. Delays will happen from time to time and eBay has protection options for when these are related to natural disasters or weather events that prevent shipping on time. If a seller ships within his stated handling time as promised, then he generally has nothing to worry about in regards to shipping concerns, however, if the courier is regularly delivering items late then the seller would be empowered to explore alternative shipping options to improve their buyer's experience and ensure a higher level of service.

For your specific situation, we would wait to see if the item is successfully delivered and when this occurs before being able to speak definitively on what protections you are eligible for. I can confirm that since you shipped within your stated handling time, you would be in compliance with our on time shipping metrics and you would not be expected to take a return on this item if it were delivered late unless you are a part of our Guaranteed Delivery program. I recommend you keep an eye on the tracking information and stay in communication with the buyer to create the best experience for them and contact Customer Service if you have any transaction specific concerns.

---

Hi @Anonymous,

Thanks for replying but I still cannot understand how eBay could hold ME responsible for the LATE or even NON delivery of an item that is shipped through any COURIER.   Even if, as you suggested, I use another Courier (UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc.) - the actual DELIVERY of the item, once it is in THEIR HANDS means it is now OUT OF MY CONTROL.    

The ONLY delivery I feel I should be/could be held accountable/responsible for is a delivery that I make MYSELF (ex: hand-delivery - from Seller to Buyer - which of course is not an option either).  

I am not a part of eBay's Guaranteed Delivery because from what I have read about that here, it seems there are more problems using that than regular USPS.   Even eBay cannot guarantee my customers an ON TIME shipment.  

BTW, I just now checked and the USPS has moved this item in shipment, thank goodness.  But it will definitely be late.

Since I have now contacted my buyer regarding USPS' late delivery, eBay has given her the option to RATE ME on "communication"  - whereas before, as I understand it, she would not have had that option.   

---

 Hi @rainbowcolorz, happy to elaborate on this topic. Since you are the business who is selling an item to a customer in this scenario, the party in which you entrust your item to uphold the promise you have made in your listing regarding delivery timeframe and item condition falls under your responsibility. You employ this third party to deliver the item safely and in a timely manner.

Neither eBay nor the buyer are responsible for a delay in shipping, as they do not purchase the shipping label themselves. Since a seller purchases the label, they are responsible for anything that happens to the item in transit to the buyer. This includes any loss, damages or delays. While I understand you may not agree with this expectation, I hope that this clears up a sellers responsibility within the transaction. If your chosen courier is not fulfilling the contract they have with you to safely deliver the item in the timeframe they have agreed to, then I recommend you express your concerns to them so they can work to improve their service.

[sharingtheland]

 If your chosen courier is not fulfilling the contract they have with you to safely deliver the item in the timeframe they have agreed to, then I recommend you express your concerns to them so they can work to improve their service.

[Anonymous]

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@missjen831 wrote:

General response—

color me confused here. We were told by Trinton and/or other blues that sellers can call and get INR cases placed on hold if the tracking shows the item is clearly enroute. Is that no longer the case? Because here we are being told the seller is expected to get the item to the buyer before the latest delivery estimate and that the buyer can file SNAD if it arrives late......

---

Hi @missjen831, I definitely want to clear this up - the discussion we have been having regarding delivery expectations is in reference to late shipment defects, not item not received cases. As has been discussed on this thread, if a seller ships within their stated handling time, they won't have to worry about late shipment defects.

As for your question about item not received cases, if an item is delayed beyond the estimated delivery date but is still receiving regular tracking updates, we can provide reasonable extensions to provide time for delivery.

@ted_200 - I will begin by clarifying that the delivery timeframe is considered a part of the description in the listing. If a seller does not ship within their stated handling time and the item is delivered more than three days beyond the latest estimated delivery date, we would consider this significantly late and the buyer would be entitled to a return. To reiterate, this would only be if the seller shipped after their stated handling time. If a seller ships within their stated handling time, then they would not need to be concerned about this possibility.

Additionally, as to your query about the shipping estimates, these are calculated by a seller's handling time and the shipping service they have selected. We use information from the shipping contractor and the seller to provide this date range.

[chrysylys]

---

@Anonymous wrote:

Since you are the business who is selling an item to a customer in this scenario, the party in which you entrust your item to uphold the promise you have made in your listing regarding delivery timeframe and item condition falls under your responsibility. You employ this third party to deliver the item safely and in a timely manner.

Neither eBay nor the buyer are responsible for a delay in shipping, as they do not purchase the shipping label themselves. Since a seller purchases the label, they are responsible for anything that happens to the item in transit to the buyer. This includes any loss, damages or delays. While I understand you may not agree with this expectation, I hope that this clears up a sellers responsibility within the transaction. If your chosen courier is not fulfilling the contract they have with you to safely deliver the item in the timeframe they have agreed to, then I recommend you express your concerns to them so they can work to improve their service.

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CORPORATE is the one putting those dates on the listings, not the sellers.

CORPORATE is the one setting those expectations for the buyers, not the sellers.

CORPORATE is marking items as 'Shipped' when only the label has been created, not the sellers.

[d-k_treasures]

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@Anonymous wrote:

---

@missjen831 wrote:

General response—

color me confused here. We were told by Trinton and/or other blues that sellers can call and get INR cases placed on hold if the tracking shows the item is clearly enroute. Is that no longer the case? Because here we are being told the seller is expected to get the item to the buyer before the latest delivery estimate and that the buyer can file SNAD if it arrives late......

---

Hi @missjen831, I definitely want to clear this up - the discussion we have been having regarding delivery expectations is in reference to late shipment defects, not item not received cases. As has been discussed on this thread, if a seller ships within their stated handling time, they won't have to worry about late shipment defects.

As for your question about item not received cases, if an item is delayed beyond the estimated delivery date but is still receiving regular tracking updates, we can provide reasonable extensions to provide time for delivery.

@ted_200 - I will begin by clarifying that the delivery timeframe is considered a part of the description in the listing. If a seller does not ship within their stated handling time and the item is delivered more than three days beyond the latest estimated delivery date, we would consider this significantly late and the buyer would be entitled to a return. To reiterate, this would only be if the seller shipped after their stated handling time. If a seller ships within their stated handling time, then they would not need to be concerned about this possibility.

Additionally, as to your query about the shipping estimates, these are calculated by a seller's handling time and the shipping service they have selected. We use information from the shipping contractor and the seller to provide this date range.

---

How can the delivery timeframe(which EBAY puts in there) be part of the description in the listing, and yet you exclude the actual carrier(selected by the SELLER) as not being part of the description?

What's wrong with this picture? 

[sockmonkeydave]

@Anonymous

Hi Trinton

Here in the midwest we got hit by an ice storm on Friday.

It is now Tuesday, and the roads are still covered with ICE.

The mail is not running, you can't find food at the grocery store.

Todays high will be -7 degrees, with a wind chill of - 23.

I may be having a delay in shipping time.

I am down to my last beer, and my last Lucky.

Stay warm my friend.

[ted_200]

I will begin by clarifying that the delivery timeframe is considered a part of the description in the listing. If a seller does not ship within their stated handling time and the item is delivered more than three days beyond the latest estimated delivery date, we would consider this significantly late and the buyer would be entitled to a return. To reiterate, this would only be if the seller shipped after their stated handling time. If a seller ships within their stated handling time, then they would not need to be concerned about this possibility.

@Anonymous

First, I should admit I don't keep up to speed on UA updates and announced/unannounced policy changes like I once did... it's just too much / too often to deal with.  That said, is the part in red covered by some policy / recommended practices / UA somewhere?  If so I would like to read it, I do not recall ever seeing this before.

"... entitled to a return".   Is that a Return return, or a MBG dispute return? 

Sorry for the somewhat ignorant sounding questions, but I should probably get back up to speed on these sorts of issues... I don't even think I've looked at my Seller Dashboard in a couple of months.

How can the delivery timeframe(which EBAY puts in there) be part of the description in the listing, and yet you exclude the actual carrier(selected by the SELLER) as not being part of the description?

What's wrong with this picture?

It adds a sad dose of reality to that old saw about your TOS being irrelevant, because eBay writes your TOS for you, doesn't it? 

[portieradesigns]

I wish that eBay would get the customer service people in these threads together with the tech team responsible for the estimated delivery date range algorithm.  It seems that they are assuming that we can control the estimates with our "promise" of handling time.  We all know that is not true, and we have been arguing about this for years.  There have been many chats and official threads where this misinformation was conveyed over and over by Griff and many others.  The delivery date estimates virtually ignore handling time in favor of using the seller's past actual performance. 

Thus, sellers are penalized for their good track record, and have no way to leave a safety margin to cover anomolies.  Late shipment rates look at promised handling times.  Estimated delivery dates don't .  The staff seem to all believe that we can control the calculated dates by simply adjusting handling, when they are not a function of the handling time at all.  They should be, it's the only thing that makes sense, but it is not programmed to work that way at all.  Changes to handling time could take weeks or even months to influence the estimated dates as the seller changes their actual shipping speed in accordance with the new plan.  But every time a seller over performs, they will lose a little bit of their leeway.  No good deed goes unpunished.

[rainbowcolorz]

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@Anonymous wrote:

---

@rainbowcolorz wrote:

---

@Anonymous wrote:

---

@rainbowcolorz wrote:

@Anonymous you said: A seller is expected to ensure an item is delivered before the latest estimated delivery date has passed. If this does not happen, the buyer can open an item not received request. 

How can any seller ensure an item is delivered when the seller is not the one who delivers the item?

And what will happen in my situation???  I have kept my buyer apprised of the situation via eBay message that THE POST OFFICE (not me) has delayed her package's arrival.  

My situation is:  I have a 1-day handling time on all my listings.  My buyer paid for her item on Sunday 1/7/18.  I printed the label right then and went to the P.O. Monday, 1/8 and it was scanned immediately.

I went to their USPS Informed Delivery website  the other day and see the item is DELAYED and the message says it will not be delivered in the expected time.   I requested emails for ALL movement/updates.    So far nothing.  

It appears the package went from Hollywood, FL to Dearborn, MI and then to OpaLocka, FL and back to Dearborn, MI where it hasn't moved an inch since 1/13.  

Carrier:  USPS

Status:

ACCEPTED   IN TRANSIT                   DELIVERED

---

Hi @rainbowcolorz, since the seller selects the shipping couriers they are contracting with, they would be solely responsible for the actions of those couriers. Delays will happen from time to time and eBay has protection options for when these are related to natural disasters or weather events that prevent shipping on time. If a seller ships within his stated handling time as promised, then he generally has nothing to worry about in regards to shipping concerns, however, if the courier is regularly delivering items late then the seller would be empowered to explore alternative shipping options to improve their buyer's experience and ensure a higher level of service.

For your specific situation, we would wait to see if the item is successfully delivered and when this occurs before being able to speak definitively on what protections you are eligible for. I can confirm that since you shipped within your stated handling time, you would be in compliance with our on time shipping metrics and you would not be expected to take a return on this item if it were delivered late unless you are a part of our Guaranteed Delivery program. I recommend you keep an eye on the tracking information and stay in communication with the buyer to create the best experience for them and contact Customer Service if you have any transaction specific concerns.

---

Hi @Anonymous,

Thanks for replying but I still cannot understand how eBay could hold ME responsible for the LATE or even NON delivery of an item that is shipped through any COURIER.   Even if, as you suggested, I use another Courier (UPS, FedEx, DHL, etc.) - the actual DELIVERY of the item, once it is in THEIR HANDS means it is now OUT OF MY CONTROL.    

The ONLY delivery I feel I should be/could be held accountable/responsible for is a delivery that I make MYSELF (ex: hand-delivery - from Seller to Buyer - which of course is not an option either).  

I am not a part of eBay's Guaranteed Delivery because from what I have read about that here, it seems there are more problems using that than regular USPS.   Even eBay cannot guarantee my customers an ON TIME shipment.  

BTW, I just now checked and the USPS has moved this item in shipment, thank goodness.  But it will definitely be late.

Since I have now contacted my buyer regarding USPS' late delivery, eBay has given her the option to RATE ME on "communication"  - whereas before, as I understand it, she would not have had that option.   

---

 Hi @rainbowcolorz, happy to elaborate on this topic. Since you are the business who is selling an item to a customer in this scenario, the party in which you entrust your item to uphold the promise you have made in your listing regarding delivery timeframe and item condition falls under your responsibility. You employ this third party to deliver the item safely and in a timely manner.

Neither eBay nor the buyer are responsible for a delay in shipping, as they do not purchase the shipping label themselves. Since a seller purchases the label, they are responsible for anything that happens to the item in transit to the buyer. This includes any loss, damages or delays. While I understand you may not agree with this expectation, I hope that this clears up a sellers responsibility within the transaction. If your chosen courier is not fulfilling the contract they have with you to safely deliver the item in the timeframe they have agreed to, then I recommend you express your concerns to them so they can work to improve their service.

---

Ahh, I see.  So because eBay does not allow anyone but the Seller to purchase a label, eBay forces the Seller to take the hit when the Courier service holds up the shipment through no fault of the Sellers.  Got it.   Thanks.

PS -- Please see your PMs.  

[chrysylys]

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@d-k_treasures wrote:

How can the delivery timeframe(which EBAY puts in there) be part of the description in the listing, and yet you exclude the actual carrier(selected by the SELLER) as not being part of the description?

What's wrong with this picture? 

---

With all the conditions and policies coupled with the 'negotiated' rates, making commercial rates available, printing labels trough the site, etc., isn't Corporate really the one contracting with the carriers?  Aren't they really doing all the contracting level work and simply passing the ability to print labels at sometimes reduced rates to Sellers?

It seems like they want to set and enforce policies without accepting any of the responsiblities.

[d-k_treasures]

---

@chrysylys wrote:

---

@d-k_treasures wrote:

How can the delivery timeframe(which EBAY puts in there) be part of the description in the listing, and yet you exclude the actual carrier(selected by the SELLER) as not being part of the description?

What's wrong with this picture? 

---

With all the conditions and policies coupled with the 'negotiated' rates, making commercial rates available, printing labels trough the site, etc., isn't Corporate really the one contracting with the carriers?  Aren't they really doing all the contracting level work and simply passing the ability to print labels at sometimes reduced rates to Sellers?

It seems like they want to set and enforce policies without accepting any of the responsiblities.

---

Technically, yes, since it's their account(s). But the seller chooses them. So the argument can be made for both.

[chrysylys]

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@d-k_treasures wrote:

Technically, yes, since it's their account(s). But the seller chooses them. So the argument can be made for both.

---

When I go to the grocery store and choose chocolate, vanilla or Key Lime Pie, am I 'contracting with either the store or the ice cream maker?

Or am I simply making a selection from what the store and the maker have contracted to offer?

[threshold.sales.group]

That's a good point, imo. 

I also wonder why a carrier choice would be offered to sellers that the site isn't prepared to stand behind? Seems to me if the folks in shipping can't vouch for the reliability of the companies service it shouldn't be offered. 

There are also co-branded shipping supplies and copy about special rates because of a carrier & site partnership.  Seems strange that you'd do those things with a carrier(s) whose performance you can't endorse.