Desperate - eBay Trying to Steal From Me!!

[jokass]

I sold a $1500 camera (no returns) and the buyer quickly turned out to be a scammer. First he asked for $400 for faked damages, then just wanted to return the camera. Which, of course, eBay forced me to accept. 

Instead of using the eBay-issued return label, he ordered a $7 camera bag from Adorama, had *that* shipped to me, and provided that tracking number to eBay. The camera weighed 9 pounds, his "return" weighed 0.8. And, of course, the tracking number is on a receipt from Adorama attached to a $7 bag.

Despite the fact that I have documentation of all this painfully obvious scam, eBay sided with the buyer. I appealed and somehow lost that too. I finally reached someone by phone who understood what was going on and they entered a "manual reversal" -- but that was a month ago and every rep I talk to gives me a different story about whether it's still an active appeal or it's dead.

In the meantime, I blocked eBay from taking the $1500 from my bank, because it's their mistake -- not mine. Keep in mind, too, they only payed me around $1270 originally  because of seller fees but are trying to take a full $1500. They're going to send this to collections but it's obviously their mistake and I can't reach anyone there who can make a difference. 

I submitted the case to the FBI internet crimes division. What else can I do here? I've lost the camera and really can't afford to donate $1500 to eBay or have my credit wrecked. 

[traditonalproducts]

I sold a $1500 camera (no returns) and the buyer quickly turned out to be a scammer. First he asked for $400 for faked damages, then just wanted to return the camera. Which, of course, eBay forced me to accept. 

Ebay & Credit Card companies trumps your no return policy. No returns do not mean no refunds.

Instead of using the eBay-issued return label, he ordered a $7 camera bag from Adorama, had *that* shipped to me, and provided that tracking number to eBay. The camera weighed 9 pounds; his "return" weighed 0.8. And, of course, the tracking number is on a receipt from Adorama attached to a $7 bag.

Despite the fact that I have documentation of all this painfully obvious scam, eBay sided with the buyer. I appealed and somehow lost that too. I finally reached someone by phone who understood what was going on and they entered a "manual reversal" -- but that was a month ago and every rep I talk to gives me a different story about whether it's still an active appeal or it's dead.

This is bait & switch by the buyer. Contact Ebay on Facebook and see what they say. When you froze the return payment now it becomes a bigger deal.

In the meantime, I blocked eBay from taking the $1500 from my bank, because it's their mistake -- not mine. Keep in mind, too, they only payed me around $1270 originally because of seller fees but are trying to take a full $1500. They're going to send this to collections but it's obviously their mistake and I can't reach anyone there who can make a difference. 

So, it appears your listings have been removed. Either you removed them, or Ebay did. Is your account suspended or restricted?

I would say this could come down to he said she said. One key note, if the item was shipped from another address that could be a piece in your favor specifically if the weights are not even close. Is the buyer a drop shipper? Lastly, this is another classic example why I do not sell anything on platforms over $300. Your risk is extremely high of losing an item of value. Now you have to spend a boat load of time, money & effort to work this out. The possibility of ending up with nothing is 50/50. Blocking a return payment by freezing your account is not good. There is always small claims court but that's not a guarantee. Lastly, I have no idea if you win whether Ebay will even let you sell again.

[bonjourami]

The buyer is entitled to receive a complete refund..what you made from the sale is unimportant.Just be aware that Ebay will turn you over to collections. Good luck.

[toomuchstuffagain35]

Only if they actually return what they received.

If the seller & buyer are both domestic there's always small claims court, or contacting the buyer's local PD.

[ittybitnot]

@jokass 

It appears you are a victim of the classic "cheap trinket return scam".   It is the seller victim version of a 'fake tracking scam'.  Since you do not mention a payment dispute (aka credit card chargeback) I assume this was an eBay 'not as described claim'.  

Did you originally ship this to a freight forwarder address?  The cheap trinket return scam has been quite popular with some of those out of US buyers that utilize the forwarder services, and there are different seller/buyer protection rules in place.  

eBay knows all about this scam.  Their first line of defense is to deny, deny, deny, and deny some more that you have been made a victim, until you go away.   They may just consider it another 'faulty return' for which there is no seller protection unless a FF is involved which you must point out yourself to someone other than the outsourced foreign customer service reps you get by call back or chat.  I would imagine that since they can't snag back your money, it has made your problem worse (or not). 

Re examine the buyer details. 

[pereirahawk]

What the buyer did was criminal, not entitled.  On top of this, the scammer used USPS, which makes it a federal crime.

It's very obvious the buyer has used this same method on other unsuspecting Ebay sellers- grand larceny with federal fraud.  They knew exactly what to do. 

If Ebay is planning on changing the perception to high brow, they had better put a system in place that allows sellers to vet buyers on high dollar transactions; an authenticity guaranteed for sellers to vet buyers.

I'm so grateful I don't sell in these high scam categories.

[pereirahawk · Accepted solution]

Keep all of your paperwork, and file a complaint with the BBB and USPS.  Also, file a police report with the PD of the buyer's city. 

I would go to the post office, and have the postmaster write a letter stating the origin of the scammers return and the weight, etc.

Keep all of this paperwork and submit with BBB.

[duffy4444]

   No, eBay did not try to steal from you... the buyer did and was successful. eBay is only the entity in the middle as the billboard. You are the one posting your notice on the billboard, so to speak. It is up to you to be wise enough to know the drawbacks of posting here or anywhere  on the internet, which is the really big overall billboard.

Your errors:

   1.  "No Returns" does not mean "No Refunds". eBay's Money Back Guarantee trumps all of that.

   2.  You should have read eBay's warnings about the types of scams and how to avoid them.

   3.  When you "reach someone by phone" at eBay, chances are that you're not talking to a real eBay employee with the authority or power to actually solve a problem. This the first I have heard of a "manual reversal". It was either a lie, or the phone rep was not authorized to do anything like that. No, they don't really "understand what is going on", or even really care about your dilemma. These phone reps often read off a script, or will tell you anything just to get you off the phone. In support of this is your statement that every rep you talked to gave you a different story. There will probably be no "reversal", because it didn't go anywhere. In the future, if you want to reach a real eBay employee, go to Ebay For Business on Facebook and send a message (do not simply post there).

   4.  You blocked eBay from taking the $1500 from your account. Perhaps you can absorb the consequences of a collection agency trying to get you to pay it, and having a big ding on your credit for many years. That is a value judgment on your part.

   5.  You've been around since 2000. That's long enough to have become familiar with all of the heartbreaking buyer scams going on, that have also been well documented on this forum.

   6. MOST IMPORTANTLY:  NEVER, EVER  sell, and especially ship, any high-value item that you and your business model cannot afford to lose, along with the double insult of losing your payment for it on a forced return or credit card chargeback that is way out of line with reality. Like many other seasoned sellers here, I am constantly stressing this when scammed sellers post their anger and sad experiences here. Higher value items should be sold locally, on consignment, in a garage sale, or on a venue like CraigsList of FaceBook Marketplace, where a buyer has to show up in person at a place agreed upon, sees the item, asks questions about it, and then pays with CASH before shaking hands and then leaving with their treasure. No cc chargebacks, no having to go thru a third party like eBay, no FBI crime filings, police reports, USPS complaint filings, and no having to deal with eBay telephone reps who don't really want to hear your story or take any real authoritative action - because they can't.

   All this said, I am sorry to hear about your loss, but that's what online selling is all about - making money, but including dangers and scammers.

Cheers, Duffy

[ed8108]

---

@jokass wrote:

The camera weighed 9 pounds, his "return" weighed 0.8. And, of course, the tracking number is on a receipt from Adorama attached to a $7 bag.

---

How did ebay explain away the weight disparity between original & return shipping weights ?

Buyer by first asking $400 for camera damages confirms that this buyer received delivery of the camera that was listed.

Wouldn't the manufacturer confirm this camera as weighting more than 0.8 ?

Good luck in your appeal

[lawnmowerpartsstore2]

Keep all of this paperwork and submit with BBB

BBB is a complete waist of time and means absolutely nothing

[cambriachick]

Sorry this happened to you.  If you read the boards at all, you will see sellers are constantly reminded not to select No Returns because it makes it way too easy to be ripped off, exactly as you were.  You might want to consider changing your policy for your remaining listings.

[pereirahawk]

Very good information and advice.  The only contention:  selling locally for cash.  The couterfeit currency has been so dialed in, there's currency that shows up as authentic with money marker.  Its definitely the exception, so probably not much to worry about. 

But, to your point, its probably wise to sell high dollar, high scam items in person.  

[jokass]

Thanks for picking up on that part, TMS! I'm aware of eBay's policies -- the point is that they did not return the item and eBay is trying to make me shoulder the cost because THEY fell for a scam. 

[inhawaii]

---

@ed8108 wrote:

---

@jokass wrote:

The camera weighed 9 pounds, his "return" weighed 0.8. And, of course, the tracking number is on a receipt from Adorama attached to a $7 bag.

---

How did ebay explain away the weight disparity between original & return shipping weights ?

Buyer by first asking $400 for camera damages confirms that this buyer received delivery of the camera that was listed.

Wouldn't the manufacturer confirm this camera as weighting more than 0.8 ?

Good luck in your appeal

---

The weight difference means absolutely nothing as ebay does not investigate any claim.

[jokass]

@ittybitnot  -- thanks for reading the whole post and understanding the situation. I sent it to a domestic (US) address via UPS. The return shipment was UPS solutions -- which utilizes USPS. The buyer operates out of an import/export business at the Miami airport. He used several names throughout the transaction, which was also a red flag that I raised to eBay.

How does one reach someone who isn't an outsourced overseas rep? I got one very smart and capable person on the phone and they basically said that I was probably fighting a losing battle but they would explain it to a supervisor while I was on hold. They  then transferred me to that supervisor who turned out to be completely clueless. 

What do you mean by re-examine the buyer details? I've figured out who the guy is, he lives in Panama but somehow operates this business out of Miami.