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Continue to Bite the Hands that Feed You

Let me see if I can get all these new changes straight. Just for review, in the last six months or so sellers here have seen:

 

1. Guaranteed delivery take a bite out of our sales because customers cannot (not without a lot of trouble and hassle) purchase multiple items and get combined shipping. We join the program in good faith, and we lose money.

 

2. A 10% decrease in our discount for being a top rated seller plus--without ANY reason, trade-off, or apology given.

 

3. Loss of placement in the search, and our items basically hidden because we won't get on board with the "free" returns nonsense.

 

4. Threats to RAISE our final value fees, if our returns increase over a "certain" percentage--based upon whatever eBay deems as excessive--and we have NO idea what those numbers or standards will be based upon. 

 

5.  Changes to the feedback system, in our listing abilities, and countless other "NEW" and "improved" systems, that in reality--cost us more time, effort, and frustration. Useless and pointless changes--like the new shipping page--why? It is clunky, takes longer, and I have to scroll to do every single shipment--again, why?

 

6.  Randomly being charged final value fees for TALKING to someone in a message, then pulling a listing--with the implied reason being that we took the sale off-eBay, even if we are totally innocent. Even if we have been here 20 years, and have NEVER had an issue.

 

7. Harassing letters from eBay, restrictions, and threats to our account--for a buyer sending US their phone number or contact information, even if we expressly told them that we couldn't accept it--and then facing #6.

 

8.  Increases in postage that are so out of whack with the economy--it should be criminal. Padded flat rates went up over a dollar in only two years? And eBay refuses to negotiate a better deal for sellers here.

 

9. LOSS of transparency--for example, being able to see our views on our listings.

 

10. Increased invasion into our "personal" space, i.e. our stores that we pay fees on. With other sellers listings taking over our space, and even pushing our descriptions down BELOW other seller's listings. 

 

11. Intrusion in our promotions--for example, I offered buy two get one free in my store, and (I was doing this from someone else's account just to see what it looked like) after I agreed to purchase one item, a box popped up with ANOTHER seller's items in it that were recommended--how in the world does this make sense? I was confused and I KNEW what was happening--totally disgraceful. And I don't even understand what the purpose of this was--was it to slow my sales? Was it to coerce the buyer to spend more? Was it just a stupid move by eBay that wasn't very well thought out? 

 

12.  Threats for having "contact" after a sale with a buyer. Does eBay not realize that there are ALL kinds of reasons for a buyer to contact a seller--not necessarily bad ones--in fact, with the "return this item" button staring them in the face--why would they even bother to contact us first? By keeping these parameters vague, eBay retains the right to boot anyone for their so-called violation of this mystical and unknown to anyone BUT eBay, magical number of "too much" contact. Absurd.

 

13. An increasingly hostile environment, where sellers cannot defend themselves against even the most in-your-face, out and out, theft. Where the seller's word is dirt--no matter if they have been spotless for 20 years--a ZERO feedback buyer wins. Only serving to attract the bottom feeders, and completely ignoring the fact that eBay SELLERS ARE BUYERS TOO--and usually GOOD ones. Absolutely horrendous. 

 

14.  Now not allowing sellers to use the promotions tool in the manner that it was SOLD to us when we purchased our stores--now having to wait 14 days to put an item on sale--absolutely disastrous for sellers, and this will only serve to shrink our already slow sales down to a trickle.

 

15. Continued support of foreign sellers over American sellers here--by allowing rule infractions, multiple postings, return scams, and preferential placement in the search.

 

16. A continued lack of respect for the small sellers--the ones who built this company--the ones who have bent over backwards to follow the rules, to treat the buyers with respect, and the ones who made eBay what it is today. To turn a cold shoulder to those sellers is beyond reprehensible, and truly shows what eBay has become. A greedy, corporate machine--with an agenda that benefits no one but whoever the "chosen" ones are--and small sellers, we ain't the ones.  Not anymore--not after they wrenched from us all they could--now they are on to bigger and better. And if they can't steal the last couple of pennies from our hands, then we aren't of any use to them anymore.

 

I am sure I am forgetting some things--it truly has become a nightmare around here. I would have never believed you if you had told me that this is what eBay would become. I used to get on these boards and BLAST anyone who dared to disrespect this site--anyone who had a complaint. I would tell them that they were absurd--oh yes, I was a cheerleader for sure--and if anyone mentioned treating a buyer badly, God help you when I got through with you. I was so grateful to have eBay--because it truly changed my life. And throughout all the changes I have seen, up until now--I have still maintained that eBay was the best thing going. All the unique and awesome items--and all the great sellers with their personalities and chatty little messages. I know that I am not alone--I know that the personal service eBay used to provide to customers meant a lot to some of them. Sure, there are people that have no time for that--but that's what AZ was for--unpersonalized buying. Here--it was just a bonus for some--nice to have the option, at least. 

 

Sellers--they have taken everything we have to give, and to keep us living in fear, on this hamster wheel of stress that they have created is beyond horrendous--it is shameful. And eBay, you really ought to be ashamed. You grew on the backs of every small seller here, what you are today you could have never accomplished without the small US sellers. And I know it is the "new" way right now to disrespect, use, abuse, and cheat your employees--I see this all over America right now--and that is partly the reason why the economy is in such a state, and also partly the reason why America is failing. eBay do you really want to add to the problem?

 

You have an opportunity to set an example--you have an opportunity to bring about some change. Instead of rolling with the pack of wolves that are devouring the middle class, instead of taking advantage, instead of promoting overseas business ahead of American interests--you could rise above this and come out like a hero. If you changed your plan to decimate your small American sellers, and instead embraced your roots and promoted your struggle--YOUR struggle eBay--the struggle you have faced dealing with other companies who have overrun you (but maybe only temporarily--can't you SEE that), and if you cornered your niche--and were HAPPY about having that niche--you could still win. If you promoted your US sellers and THEIR struggles, if you put yourself behind us and let the public know that you have some kind of morals and loyalty--regardless of what your THINK TANK thinks--people DO still care about stuff like that--can't you see how powerful an advertising campaign based around that could be?

 

But in any case, you won't win this way. What you are doing right now is the wrong way--and I don't care how many savvy millennials or millionaire executives you have telling you differently--they are wrong. You will not win here, not this way. You see, the difference between you and the others is that your company was built with a LOT of help. By sellers who have stuck with you through all the hard times, and who have stayed loyal. Not only is it morally reprehensible to turn out those sellers, but it also, in the long run--makes you look even LESS reliable and aimless. Honestly, your company looks like a clueless follower--like you don't have any idea of where you are going or what you are doing. Just looking for the latest trend, and hopping on board whatever looks attractive in the now. Where is the forward thinking? Does no one up at HQ give a thought to what this treatment of your long time sellers is doing to your reputation? Do you honestly think that you can just scrap the old and begin anew? Without thought or care to the many, many Americans (many disabled, veterans, single moms, college students, side-hustle middle class) that you are harming? How about an ad campaign based upon those types of sellers? Can you say tear-jerker? You are going to lose millions of buyers. Has anyone really thought that through?

 

What you are counting on is that the American public will continue to turn a blind eye--that they continue to allow politicians, businesses, and the government to take advantage of their good nature. That they will simply be distracted and not notice the unfairness and inequality that surrounds them every day. That they will continue to allow themselves to be thrown under the bus for the 1%, for corporate interests, and that getting a little shiny thing for cheap will continue to appeal. But we are not the proverbial frog in the pot--and a revolution is on the horizon. How long do you think people will watch as their children go jobless--paying off inflated student loans, with no hope of a bright future? How long do you think people will continue to become poorer and poorer, with no reliable health insurance, no raises, and no money in savings? While the rich just continue to take and get richer.  A change is coming--you can bet on it. And you could be at the cutting edge of that change, instead of trying to ride the "**bleep** America" bus all the way to golden parachute land. Think about it eBay--please think about it. You have a lot of people's lives in your hands. And before you make these sweeping decisions and changes all the time--can't you even contemplate for one second, how to use your power for good? For America, and for the small sellers that have had your back all these years? Can't you find it in your heart to at least give us a fair chance? If you can't, then I say to you--best of luck, because you are going to need it.  Already the on-line buzz is that eBay is making terrible choices--and NO one wants to support a company that appears to be ignorant and that has NO identity--no matter how cheap the trinkets (and that cheap trinket bus is losing its appeal for buyers--please someone up there LOOK at the data). Just because you allow millions more sellers of garbage on here, doesn't mean that garbage is becoming more popular. Social media will be filled with stories of how sellers are being scammed here, and when their losses become too large, then the last of the hangers-on won't be here anymore either--at least, not the small American ones.

 

So in closing I say to you, sellers--the time is NOW to make yourselves heard--before eBay completely destroys this site that WE have built. For them to be so incredibly arrogant, and so delusional--to think that they don't owe their sellers here any more than this--how dare they? How dare they threaten, coerce, steal, undermine, harass, and devalue us? Write, call, post, use Social Media--anything you can do to make them HEAR us--because they obviously think that we have no voice, and that we will simply accept any garbage that they ask us to swallow.  But we will NOT.  At least, I will not. And if I have to surrender my account to say so--then so be it--change requires sacrifice.

 

And to you, eBay execs--I implore you to think things through here--because this really is the end--for so many of us. You have pushed the sellers here to the point where the stress, disrespect, and constant fleecing of us, has reached the critical stage. You have stripped us of our pride--both in our work, and in YOU. You have taken any kind of independence and control of our businesses away from us, and you have restricted our abilities to sell, by binding them to your ever evolving, and increasingly harmful agenda. Forcing us to bend, over and over again to your will, and forever setting the bar higher and adding hoop after hoop for us to jump through. For many of us--to continue down this path of degradation with you, and to continue to allow ourselves to be debased, and treated like simpletons that require a firm hand and a leash--is an exercise in self abuse that we cannot tolerate anymore--and we simply cannot, in good conscious, continue to support a company that obviously does not have our best interests at heart--nor even in mind.

 

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178 REPLIES 178

Re: Continue to Bite the Hands that Feed You

I hate to put it to you this way... the reason none of these platforms is successful is even when they build a base, they cannot compete in google search against the industry giants.

It was not always this way. It used to be you could build a website and outrank Best Buy for targeted product in natural search. Google fixed that problem for us.
Message 61 of 179
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Re: Continue to Bite the Hands that Feed You

It's hard to improve on what you have said. Most recently on your list of horribles, I pulled a listing on an item when I realized that the original was wrong , and the system wouldn't let me get in a revision, thanks to a propective bidder. I cancelled bids then immediately corrected and relisted it but was charged a "final listing fee." It seems as though some recent hire from UC-Santa Barbara knows more about our business than we who have been selling on eBay for a decade.
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Re: Continue to Bite the Hands that Feed You

"So knowing that, I don't do anything ebay wants or reccomends - because I know it will benefit ebay first and maybe me later. I don't use the new tools that ebay offers because there are always hidden strings attached to the OR they just don't work well. I do what is good for me within the ever shifting policies ebay sets out." Ha, welcome fellow anarchist. I totally agree. I will NEVER do the 14 day returns because I sell a lot of books and am disinclined to serve as the eBay branch of the buyers' local library. Have I written about this? Yes. Has it even made a dent? No. Have I ever gotten the courtesy of a response? Hahahahahahaha.
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Re: Continue to Bite the Hands that Feed You

I strongly believe that much of what ebay has rolled out this year is designed specifically to force as many sellers as possible into the extra 4% FVF's.

 

I have absolutely no motivation to list lately. I am starting to list things again, but not on ebay.

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Re: Continue to Bite the Hands that Feed You

An anecdote as to the unwisdom of doing away with searches into buyer activity....Years ago, I sold a rare VHS. I had watched it first. I sent it off to the buyer, who had furnished me with a postpaid envelope on her employers' nickel (hmmmmm, that should have been a major clue). She got back to me about three days after she received it, said it was "an obvious copy" and wanted to return it for a full refund. So when I looked at her recent purchases, I saw that she had bought a VHS copying machine that promised copies as good as the original. So I wrote her back and told her I saw she had made this recent purchase, and suggested that she had perhaps mixed up the one I sent her with a copy she made. Guess what- I never heard another word and no negative feedback! Would be impossible to detect that kind of fraud today.
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Re: Continue to Bite the Hands that Feed You

Don't know if this has been addressed, but I must comment on the math:

2. A 10% decrease in our discount for being a top rated seller plus--without ANY reason, trade-off, or apology given.

It's a 50% decrease in the discount. The discount was cut in half. On the same topic, anyone getting a 4% fee increase for too many returns is getting a 40% increase in final value fees. Going from $10 in fees to $14 = 40 percent. We need to stop thinking in terms of what items sell for and start thinking in terms of how much more eBay is keeping.
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Re: Continue to Bite the Hands that Feed You

I dont spend a lot of time on these boards. 

 

I just deleted my watch list and am done buying here. I need to hold onto capital for the inevitable transtion. One year I spent over 100k on ebay.  Collectables many times end up being sold on ebay several times, making one items fees several times.

 

If they would have just raised fees, we wouldnt like it but, it would have much easier than all of the ways to generate revenue by taking things away, 10% fvf discount for this, 10% fvf discount for this, we pay for returns, yet get enough returns to pay 4% more or at least live in fear of it. Zero control over our own stores.

 

My partner has been saying how abusive it is and putting work into other things. We have been on target to hit over 500k in sales this year and saying lets hold out but, it just keeps coming. We put the store on "vacation" to try and forget about how miserable it makes us for few days.  Here I am looking for a hint of light. I dont think there are any left. Not sure how much longer we can hold on but, weve been preparing for this for years. The stores on vacation and people cant wait for us to open to buy stuff from the messages were getting. We compete with almost noone yet keep being forced to. Its very strange and out of control.

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Re: Continue to Bite the Hands that Feed You

BRAVO!!!!

My sentiments exactly.

Message 68 of 179
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Re: Continue to Bite the Hands that Feed You

Bravo!!! Perfectly describes the truth and most of our sentiments. Thank you for posting.

Message 69 of 179
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Re: Continue to Bite the Hands that Feed You

I guess I will go to a longer handling time.  I mean what is the point if they aren't going to give the discount and they took away the TRS badge.  Might as well have less stress on having to earn the TRS badge, because it doesn't exist anymore.  I am not going to do GD or free returns.  

 

Thoughts?

Change the channel!
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Re: Continue to Bite the Hands that Feed You


@mczombies wrote:

"I do believe ebay hears us.

They're just not listening..."

 

Not yet, they aren't. But if enough sellers make enough noise--there are other places to post our opinions on--and if sellers start searching out some other venues, and slow down on listing here for awhile--perhaps they will be forced to listen. 

 


I couldn't agree more!

 

I pulled all of my listings already, and while I realize that ebay doesn't care for 1-1,000 sellers reaction, I am on your side with expressing my disappoinment and refusal to comply with the incessant and unecessary abuse of ebay's users on the whole.

 

I think that if we are disciplined enough to put up with all of the games they play from the past, then we certainly have the ability to stand up for ourselves.

 

I also want to thank you along with all of the others who have, for your posts,  and the well contructed points in your arguments against the constant disrespect of those even more loyal to the company than I was.

 

Keep up the encouragement!

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Re: Continue to Bite the Hands that Feed You


@chrispycritter007 wrote:
Don't know if this has been addressed, but I must comment on the math:

2. A 10% decrease in our discount for being a top rated seller plus--without ANY reason, trade-off, or apology given.

It's a 50% decrease in the discount. The discount was cut in half. On the same topic, anyone getting a 4% fee increase for too many returns is getting a 40% increase in final value fees. Going from $10 in fees to $14 = 40 percent. We need to stop thinking in terms of what items sell for and start thinking in terms of how much more eBay is keeping.

I remember the first round of defects and how ebay held everything against a seller, returns, messages after the buyer bought, and on and on and sellers got booted because of it.

 

With the announcement of the 4% punishment fee - I doubt that ebay will ever boot any seller for defects and returns again, and believe that eventually ALL sellers will end up paying 14%.  This is nothing more than a fee increase because the PO's rate increases aren't bringing in enough extra money to ebay because of the ship gouge.

(*Bleep*)
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Re: Continue to Bite the Hands that Feed You

@retrose1


@retrose1 wrote:

@chrispycritter007 wrote:
Don't know if this has been addressed, but I must comment on the math:

2. A 10% decrease in our discount for being a top rated seller plus--without ANY reason, trade-off, or apology given.

It's a 50% decrease in the discount. The discount was cut in half. On the same topic, anyone getting a 4% fee increase for too many returns is getting a 40% increase in final value fees. Going from $10 in fees to $14 = 40 percent. We need to stop thinking in terms of what items sell for and start thinking in terms of how much more eBay is keeping.

I remember the first round of defects and how ebay held everything against a seller, returns, messages after the buyer bought, and on and on and sellers got booted because of it.

 

With the announcement of the 4% punishment fee - I doubt that ebay will ever boot any seller for defects and returns again, and believe that eventually ALL sellers will end up paying 14%.  This is nothing more than a fee increase because the PO's rate increases aren't bringing in enough extra money to ebay because of the ship gouge.


Can you put a time frame to the first part of your reply?  Are you talking about years ago or more recently?  As to the 4% increase in in FVFs I thought that was for Sellers who dropped to below Standard and would also lose visibility of their items.

My issue with the Item not as described defect rate is that Buyers will say anything to avoid paying return shipping on a non-Free Return item ... so choosing that is their easy way out whether its true or not ... Seller in the end loses on that score.

Regards,
Mr. Lincoln - Community Mentor
Message 73 of 179
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Re: Continue to Bite the Hands that Feed You


@mr_lincoln wrote:

@retrose1


@retrose1 wrote:

@chrispycritter007 wrote:
Don't know if this has been addressed, but I must comment on the math:

2. A 10% decrease in our discount for being a top rated seller plus--without ANY reason, trade-off, or apology given.

It's a 50% decrease in the discount. The discount was cut in half. On the same topic, anyone getting a 4% fee increase for too many returns is getting a 40% increase in final value fees. Going from $10 in fees to $14 = 40 percent. We need to stop thinking in terms of what items sell for and start thinking in terms of how much more eBay is keeping.

I remember the first round of defects and how ebay held everything against a seller, returns, messages after the buyer bought, and on and on and sellers got booted because of it.

 

With the announcement of the 4% punishment fee - I doubt that ebay will ever boot any seller for defects and returns again, and believe that eventually ALL sellers will end up paying 14%.  This is nothing more than a fee increase because the PO's rate increases aren't bringing in enough extra money to ebay because of the ship gouge.


Can you put a time frame to the first part of your reply?  Are you talking about years ago or more recently?  As to the 4% increase in in FVFs I thought that was for Sellers who dropped to below Standard and would also lose visibility of their items.

My issue with the Item not as described defect rate is that Buyers will say anything to avoid paying return shipping on a non-Free Return item ... so choosing that is their easy way out whether its true or not ... Seller in the end loses on that score.


I can't remember the date when defects first appeared might have been 5 years ago.  I sat on the cusp of getting booted for a return and a couple of buyers emailing to thank me.  Both were considered defects and drove sellers to below standard.  If you had 3 returns back then, you were gone.

 

I believe that ebay has reworked the system and there are hints of it in place now.  If a buyer files a return request or case, it is held against you at the filing - even if they do not send anything back or the seller 'wins' the case.  I have a couple of defects now that were caused by things that were not defects a year ago.

 

The swiftness and ease that sellers will be dropped into the 14% 'punishment' will be surprising for some.  But dropping sellers into below standard for minor infractions means that ebay gets to keep the 10% trs discounts and 4% extra fees.  I believe that ebay would like that to happen.  Then ebay won't have to listen to sellers complaining about no views/sales, ebay can point to the dashboard and say, it's because you are below standard.

 

In some of my above posts, I state that there is no fighting some things once ebay has decided something, and I believe this is one of them.  It is why I stopped offering solutions on how to get your ducks in a row to win a case from a buyer that was obviously scamming some time last year - once the comments about 'hidden plicies' were mentioned by an ebay employee, it was all over for sellers winning cases.

 

Right now, I do not list anything that an impulse buyer would want, I don't list anything trendy or high dollar, in fact I do very little to get a boost in search results because I want as few problems with ebay transactions after the fact as possible.

(*Bleep*)
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Re: Continue to Bite the Hands that Feed You

 

 

OK--first of all, I have to know what the VHS movie was--I love some of those wacky old VHS rarities. But you are right--and I forgot all about that "awesome" new change--we can't go back and see what any buyers or sellers have purchased  like we used to be able to do.  Another "privilege" gone.

 

I only did that once or twice--but one time, in the not so distant past, when eBay actually cared about treating us with a little respect--the woman who claimed SNAD had actually purchased another sweater identical to mine, only in a different size. She was still able to return it--but on her dime, as was only fair. I am quite sure that eBay wanted to make SURE that we have NO recourse when similar situations pop up.

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