Buyers and ebay are working together

[bargainbasement101]

Well they did it to me for the 14th time since October when the Postmaster General "slowed down the mail".  I sell an item, pack it, ship it  and when it doesn't get to the recipient in the time frame that ebay establishes, the buyer files an "item not received"  claim.  I just got notice from ebay that they settled in the buyers favor. They took money from me and gave it to the buyer.  The reason ebay did that was because " i did not furnish a tracking number proving that item had been DELIVERED.  Will someone tell me how this makes sense. I sent tracking numbers twice to the buyer proving that i sent the item.  NOW ebay wants tracking numbers showing the item was delivered.

I also have had the mis-fortune to have 2 buyers start a return, close it and start a charge back with their credit card.   That has cost me over 120.00 for both. One buyer acknowledged that he ordered the wrong item that cost him 30.00. He got his 30.00 back, gets to keep the item and ebay slaps me with a 20.00 fee. The other guy didn't get his item so he will get his money back, keep the item (which was delivered today and ebay will slap me with another 20.00 fee.

My listings all say no returns but ebay says that if the item is defective or damaged they can send it back at sellers expense.  Of course the buyers will use the excuse that it is defective so they don't have to pay shipping to me. In my case, I eat the original shipping charge(i offer free shipping), the return shipping and, since the item has a factory warranty i have to pay shipping to the factory.

I have been selling on ebay for 17 years and, in all honesty, i won't be on ebay for 18.   All together, i have lost 476.00 this last christmas season.

[farmalljr]

In those 17 years, you should have spent the hour or two, to READ the policies you are bound under. What you have experienced is nothing new. No returns has NEVER meant no returns/refunds. 

Run to another platform, you'll see the same TOS. There is NO such thing as NO returns when you sell on someone else's platform. Period. 

You may NOW want to spend the time to read and understand the TOS you are bound under, before you lose more money. Consider yourself lucky that the last 17 years you have gimped along and not run into more trouble then you have recently experienced. 

[duncanvr]

Tracking numbers means nothing in ebays eyes if buyer complains and it says in transit the buyer is always going to win the money back and keep the item! No returns is a bad idea and buyers will just do charge backs. Your better off with 30 days buyer pays return shipping policy. Don't use USPS they cannot handle the mail volume any more, find a courier that can. If INR case raised in transit and ebay refunds buyer, then contact the courier and get the parcel returned to you before it gets to the buyer. Put your store in time away in the second half of December these claims are not worth the hassle. USPS puts packages on pallets and puts them aside till they can get to them which could be days. ebay needs to extend its estimates in November and December but won't. If you still want to ship right up to Christmas next year choose the slowest possible shipping policy.

[popblox]

It seems like eBay finds in favor of the buyer by default on every chargeback, but both chargebacks and INR's can be appealed if the item was delivered within 30 days of the case being closed:

https://www.ebay.com/help/returns-refunds/returns-refunds-sellers/appealing-decision-seller?id=4369&...

Just make sure to be polite, include as much factual information as you possibly can, and reference eBay policies where sellers are protected, such as the most recent announcement. I always say something like "I previously spoke with an eBay employee and they told me if the item ever got delivered, I should file this appeal to get the case reversed in my favor". 

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Announcements/Seller-Protections-extended-for-shipping-delays-and-Nort...

[pburn]

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@bargainbasement101 wrote:

The reason ebay did that was because " i did not furnish a tracking number proving that item had been DELIVERED.  Will someone tell me how this makes sense. I sent tracking numbers twice to the buyer proving that i sent the item.  NOW ebay wants tracking numbers showing the item was delivered.

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It is the seller's responsibility to get the item delivered to the buyer--not just send it. This has been a long-established policy for eBay sellers.

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@bargainbasement101 wrote:

I also have had the mis-fortune to have 2 buyers start a return, close it and start a charge back with their credit card.

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Why did the buyers have to open a chargeback with their credit card companies if they already had a return request with eBay? Did you perhaps decline their return request? Or not respond to it at all?

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@bargainbasement101 wrote:

My listings all say no returns but ebay says that if the item is defective or damaged they can send it back at sellers expense.

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That has been eBay's policy forever. It should not come as a surprise.

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@bargainbasement101 wrote:

I have been selling on ebay for 17 years and, in all honesty, i won't be on ebay for 18.   All together, i have lost 476.00 this last christmas season.

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That's quite a hit and, I'm sure, hard to take. It really does make one want to reconsider online marketplace selling . . .

[luckythewinner]

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@bargainbasement101 wrote:

NOW ebay wants tracking numbers showing the item was delivered.

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eBay has always required a seller to provide a tracking number showing delivery to win an "Item Not Received" case. 

"In order to be protected, tracking must be from one the shipping carriers integrated with eBay and must include the date you shipped the item, the date it was delivered, and the address it was delivered to."

https://www.ebay.ca/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/helping-buyers-items-not-received?id=4116

[pametopia]

Yes, this season has been horrible between packages going on the "slow boat"  and Ebay defaulting to the bidders' in every situation.  Usually about week before Christmas, I go on "vacation" from selling because buyers go into a panic and this year was WAY WORSE. They file claims literally the day after the Ebay ETA.  They DEMAND  you take best offers when you don't offer it on your auction (It's a 5 day auction and it's day 3 and you have no bids, you have to sell it to me for what I say). They inundate you with questions and rude remarks disquised as a question and freak if you don't respond in ten minutes.  Tracking info has been a joke on the USPS website and it is literally no help in these situations.

  I usually start back up again Jan 1st. However, this year, I'm extending it until mid January. May even until late January and see if package delivery gets any better through the USPS. It's not my full time job so I don't NEED this to survive. I realize it's unprecedented times, however it's not just sellers that need to adapt.

[ra_201044]

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@luckythewinner wrote:

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@bargainbasement101 wrote:

NOW ebay wants tracking numbers showing the item was delivered.

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eBay has always required a seller to provide a tracking number showing delivery to win an "Item Not Received" case. 

"In order to be protected, tracking must be from one the shipping carriers integrated with eBay and must include the date you shipped the item, the date it was delivered, and the address it was delivered to."

https://www.ebay.ca/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/helping-buyers-items-not-received?id=4116

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@luckythewinner 

You forgot the first part, which I think applies more to the OP, as they implied that they never entered the tracking # into the system, and never gave it in the case - just to the buyer.

Add tracking details – You'll need to provide tracking within 3 business days of the request being opened, if you haven't done so already. 

[brwil85]

I will explain eBay customer support to you.

Imagine if you were selling harpoons and kayaks to Inuit seal hunters in Greenland.

Obviously you would hire Brazilian samba dancers to handle the tech support calls.

When I call BMW for support I like to talk to someone who has never driven a car before. It gives me a better customer service experience. 

I wonder what people in India would think if they called their Hindu temple for advice or a prayer and the person who answered was from Arkansas "howdy y'all"

[bimm_corp]

@brwil85 

>When I call BMW for support

Good luck with your Barvarian Manure Wagon.

[3d_discounts]

Brilliant answer, I understand so much clearer now!

[powell-memorabilia]

eBay has been clear that you need to submit tracking numbers.  Upload them - don’t just message the buyer.  You should be kicking yourself.

[smabrouk]

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@bargainbasement101 wrote:

Well they did it to me for the 14th time since October when the Postmaster General "slowed down the mail".  I sell an item, pack it, ship it  and when it doesn't get to the recipient in the time frame that ebay establishes, the buyer files an "item not received"  claim.  I just got notice from ebay that they settled in the buyers favor. They took money from me and gave it to the buyer.  The reason ebay did that was because " i did not furnish a tracking number proving that item had been DELIVERED.  Will someone tell me how this makes sense. I sent tracking numbers twice to the buyer proving that i sent the item.  NOW ebay wants tracking numbers showing the item was delivered.

I also have had the mis-fortune to have 2 buyers start a return, close it and start a charge back with their credit card.   That has cost me over 120.00 for both. One buyer acknowledged that he ordered the wrong item that cost him 30.00. He got his 30.00 back, gets to keep the item and ebay slaps me with a 20.00 fee. The other guy didn't get his item so he will get his money back, keep the item (which was delivered today and ebay will slap me with another 20.00 fee.

My listings all say no returns but ebay says that if the item is defective or damaged they can send it back at sellers expense.  Of course the buyers will use the excuse that it is defective so they don't have to pay shipping to me. In my case, I eat the original shipping charge(i offer free shipping), the return shipping and, since the item has a factory warranty i have to pay shipping to the factory.

I have been selling on ebay for 17 years and, in all honesty, i won't be on ebay for 18.   All together, i have lost 476.00 this last christmas season.

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You should have posted the tracking numbers on eBay rather than sending the tracking numbers (via messages) to the buyers.  Sending the tracking number to the buyer is not the same as posting the tracking number on eBay.  The former may be ignored by the buyer.  The latter is helpful to the buyer and provides protection (in some ways such as evidence of shipping, location information, and delivery information to eBay customer service) to the seller while providing eBay customer service with access to tracking information for all items.  By not posting the tracking numbers on eBay when you shipped the items, you hurt yourself.

Both of your buyers are dishonest; you should block them so that they cannot buy from you in the future.  The one with buyer’s remorse committed fraud via her/his chargeback as buyer’s remorse is not a valid reason for a chargeback.  The second buyer knew (via the tracking information) that (s)he was going to receive the item.  The eBay customer service representative probably told this buyer to wait for the item to arrive but, being dishonest, this buyer proceeded to file a fraudulent chargeback, thereby stealing both the item and the money from you.  This should not be allowed.

Did this second buyer contact you regarding returning the item that (s)he received after her/his fraudulent chargeback?  While (s)he most likely did not do so, it would be refreshing (provide a glimmer of hope) if (s)he did.  Her/His not doing so provides additional evidence of her/his dishonesty.

Do you have a way in which to appeal these chargebacks?  

Does eBay or PayPal (if the payments were made via PayPal) ever contest chargebacks?