Buyer says Boyfriend is going to destroy contents of package when it arrives and wants refund

[vintagecraze50]

THIS has got to be the most insane message after a sale and with an item not yet delivered. Buyers messages “ I need to get a refund. My boyfriend said he is not going to give me the item when it is delivered and said he is going to destroy it or put it in a dumpster when it arrives”. I am homeless and he will get them package”. 

So, I assuming this is some kind of REALLY REALLY DUMB SCAM OR SOME REALLY desperate lady who just got kicked out of her boyfriend house. SO WHO PAYED FOR THIS? IT’S IN I ASSUME BOYFRIENDS NAME. A male buyer. This is about a 300 buck ring. I tell her. NO RETURN, no refund. And that I will be happy to do a package intercept to prevent boyfriend from getting his hands on this. They reply, no thanks. I will keep it. WTH is this. I am still trying to recall this package.

[mam98031]

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@albertabrightalberta wrote:

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@jklfindings wrote:

Just had to do an intercept.  Buyer got frustrated with how long USPS was taking to deliver and filed an INR case.  We both thought it was lost.  I filed an intercept just in case it started moving again.  Of course the day after it starts moving again... Cost $17.50 and doesn't get triggered until it hits the last destination post office.  Worked just fine though, and the package is headed back now.  Pretty easy honestly.

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In this case, before filing for the intercept, what I would have filed a "find missing mail" case. I've found that it usually shakes items loose from wherever it got stuck. 

If within a couple of days of the missing mail search it didn't show movement, only then would I have tried to intercept it. 

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I typically advise a seller to file a Trace first and sign up for email updates on tracking entries.  This usually will shake a package loose.  However if that doesn't work after a couple of days, then file the Missing Mail report.

I have had mixed results when filing for Missing Mail.  I actually get more success from filing a Trace.  So I file the Trace first.  Just my method.

[albertabrightalberta]

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@mam98031 wrote:

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@albertabrightalberta wrote:

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@jklfindings wrote:

Just had to do an intercept.  Buyer got frustrated with how long USPS was taking to deliver and filed an INR case.  We both thought it was lost.  I filed an intercept just in case it started moving again.  Of course the day after it starts moving again... Cost $17.50 and doesn't get triggered until it hits the last destination post office.  Worked just fine though, and the package is headed back now.  Pretty easy honestly.

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In this case, before filing for the intercept, what I would have filed a "find missing mail" case. I've found that it usually shakes items loose from wherever it got stuck. 

If within a couple of days of the missing mail search it didn't show movement, only then would I have tried to intercept it. 

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I typically advise a seller to file a Trace first and sign up for email updates on tracking entries.  This usually will shake a package loose.  However if that doesn't work after a couple of days, then file the Missing Mail report.

I have had mixed results when filing for Missing Mail.  I actually get more success from filing a Trace.  So I file the Trace first.  Just my method.

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And I've had better luck with finding missing mail! I guess it depends on who and where the request was handled and where the last location was. 

My point was that the last thing I'd do would be an interception.

[gurlcat]

Congratulations!

So now you've had two close calls with opal rings.  -I just had one with an opal necklace, talked a buyer into cancelling her return  (that wasn't actually my goal, just to plea my honesty against her reason for returning it, and apparently convinced her completely -she even gave me a glowing positive feedback!).  

LOL so maybe opals aren't so much a curse as a test.  Ooo!!  Have you seen 'Uncut Gems'?  It's Adam Sandler but nothing at all like his typical movies, in fact not a comedy at all.  Honestly it's hard to categorize, but SO good.  A huge black opal plays a major role in that, and it definitely tests him, but I won't give any spoilers.  

[mr_lincoln]

@vintagecraze50 

This has been quite the thread spanning about 3 days ... just curious about the $ 300 item.  What was your cost on that item?

[a_c_green]

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@mam98031 wrote:
I typically advise a seller to file a Trace first and sign up for email updates on tracking entries.  This usually will shake a package loose.  However if that doesn't work after a couple of days, then file the Missing Mail report.

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That's true, but to be clear, it's the Trace request that triggers a manual intervention to possibly find the package, not the email updates; the two are not at all equal.

Email updates are helpful for getting you notifications of a new tracking event as soon as it occurs, but they have absolutely no effect on the package movement (or lack of same); they're just a database notification option. While extremely helpful, because they come to you and you don't have to do the tracking lookups yourself, all they're doing behind the scenes is simply speeding up your notification of an event that was going to happen anyway.

[mam98031]

I understand that sometimes we can have different experiences when dealing with USPS.

"My point was that the last thing I'd do would be an interception."  The OP's issue was NOT a missing package, therefore a Trace or Missing mail reports wasn't a consideration or necessary in this case.  To protect themselves, the OP did the right thing IMHO in filing for the interception.

[mam98031]

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@mam98031 wrote:
I typically advise a seller to file a Trace first and sign up for email updates on tracking entries.  This usually will shake a package loose.  However if that doesn't work after a couple of days, then file the Missing Mail report.

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That's true, but to be clear, it's the Trace request that triggers a manual intervention to possibly find the package, not the email updates; the two are not at all equal.

Email updates are helpful for getting you notifications of a new tracking event as soon as it occurs, but they have absolutely no effect on the package movement (or lack of same); they're just a database notification option. While extremely helpful, because they come to you and you don't have to do the tracking lookups yourself, all they're doing behind the scenes is simply speeding up your notification of an event that was going to happen anyway.

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I didn't suggest they were.  However there have been countless times [pre Dejoy] that simply filing for email updates did shake a package loose, but not for a few years now.

However signing up for tracking updates can be very important, especially for sellers that end up refunding a buyer because the item was not received.  With the updates, the seller will get notified if that package moves again and/or gets delivered.  That is important info to have.  I just had one of these happen.

When this happens, I give a buyer 24-48 hours to tell me that they got the package after all.  If I don't here from them, I send them an email letting them know that I've been notified the package was delivered on ____ date.  I further let the buyer know that I will update Ebay [not that this is a real thing] and I politely and professionally give the buyer two options.  Return the package to sender or I can send them an invoice through PayPal if they want to keep the item.  In my most recent case the buyer did not contact me, I contacted them and they wanted to keep the item.

So I invoiced them through PP, they paid and all is well.

Each tool that USPS offers when trying to recover or find a package has value.  Usually different kinds of value, but all are useful tools.

[sin-n-dex]

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@gurlcat wrote:

LOL so maybe opals aren't so much a curse as a test.  Ooo!!  Have you seen 'Uncut Gems'?  It's Adam Sandler but nothing at all like his typical movies, in fact not a comedy at all.  Honestly it's hard to categorize, but SO good.  A huge black opal plays a major role in that, and it definitely tests him, but I won't give any spoilers.  

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I've seen that movie! It was pretty good and did not end how I would have expected...

C.

[gurlcat]

Mam isn't the only one I've seen assert that signing up for notifications sometimes appears to induce tracking to get moving again.  I've tried it and not had the same results, so I would say it's probably just coincidental whenever tracking movement does proceed after the signup (unless an "induction believer" can provide even a speculative mechanism of HOW it might work)  .... but that doesn't mean I won't bother trying it every time, LOL.  I figure there's more reason than the "couldn't hurt" logic of carrying a lucky penny or whatever, because when you're desperate for progress it would be nice to receive notice of it when you weren't even checking .... IF that progress does occur. 

So it's worth signing up for that reason alone.  Now, if it meant also signing up for spam or even something like notifications that say "Sorry, no changes yet but we're still working on it!" or whatever, then I wouldn't find it worthwhile at all, and I suspect the believers might not either.  But it's totally silent if nothing happens, so the "couldn't hurt" thing definitely applies.  

[a_c_green]

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@gurlcat wrote:

Mam isn't the only one I've seen assert that signing up for notifications sometimes appears to induce tracking to get moving again.  I've tried it and not had the same results, so I would say it's probably just coincidental whenever tracking movement does proceed after the signup (unless an "induction believer" can provide even a speculative mechanism of HOW it might work) 

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That's correct; it is entirely coincidental. As I've said before, the Latin term for this effect is Post hoc ergo propter hoc, "if this, therefore that" or words to that effect. Signing up for emailed notifications (or text alerts) is a database option, nothing more, speeding up notification to you of an event that was going to happen anyway. It is a good and useful feature, but people need to understand what it can and cannot accomplish. Wikipedia has a nice concise article that goes into a little more detail on this perception:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc 

Signing up for email alerts is not any kind of trace request, and does not result in anything special occurring on the USPS side, beyond a database transaction to set a notification flag on the package record. (Conversely, in past years I routinely signed up for my own tracking notifications of my outbound packages, every single one, but the USPS still managed to delay some and completely lose a couple.) I've written this type of code myself and am quite familiar with it.

What does set off alarm bells is a Trace request or a missing mail claim, which can be submitted if 15 days (for most shipping methods) have elapsed without any sign of activity. That does result in an action request going out to USPS employees at one or more specific locations, to which they're supposed to respond and hopefully turn up your package.

[gurlcat]

Yes.  Another term for it is "confirmation bias."  

And yes filing a missing package search definitely can get the ball rolling.  If nothing else, having a search in progress lines you up for making the insurance claim, if the ball doesn't get rolling.  -I haven't lost one yet, apart from the one that didn't get any kind of scan, which is understandable.  I think a porch pirate actually stole that one before my mailman arrived.  

However (and this shocked some other members here who had said it couldn't be done) -I did win the insurance claims (2 separate instances) that I filed with only "Item received, acceptance pending" scans, where I had a scheduled pickup with a scan form.  To be honest it surprised me too, because it could be abused/scammed fairly easily.  The carrier is unlikely to compare the tracking numbers included in the scan form to the ones on the packages .... or even the NUMBER of packages apparently, because a few times I have not included one of the packages in my mailbox (like I was still packing it when the mailman came, LOL), yet he always just scans the form regardless of whether the count matches or not.  

[vintagecraze50]

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@gurlcat wrote:

Congratulations!

So now you've had two close calls with opal rings.  -I just had one with an opal necklace, talked a buyer into cancelling her return  (that wasn't actually my goal, just to plea my honesty against her reason for returning it, and apparently convinced her completely -she even gave me a glowing positive feedback!).  

LOL so maybe opals aren't so much a curse as a test.  Ooo!!  Have you seen 'Uncut Gems'?  It's Adam Sandler but nothing at all like his typical movies, in fact not a comedy at all.  Honestly it's hard to categorize, but SO good.  A huge black opal plays a major role in that, and it definitely tests him, but I won't give any spoilers.  

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We live very near Franklin, NC. The gem capitol of the world I am told. Rubies and sapphires all over these beautiful mountains. I have had the inclination to mine them and cut them myself.

[vintagecraze50]

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@mr_lincoln wrote:

@vintagecraze50 

This has been quite the thread spanning about 3 days ... just curious about the $ 300 item.  What was your cost on that item?

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About $120.00 as cost. Retail they sell it all over the web for over 450.00. It is a popular style done by this company we deal with.

[mam98031]

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@gurlcat wrote:

Mam isn't the only one I've seen assert that signing up for notifications sometimes appears to induce tracking to get moving again.  I've tried it and not had the same results, so I would say it's probably just coincidental whenever tracking movement does proceed after the signup (unless an "induction believer" can provide even a speculative mechanism of HOW it might work) 

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That's correct; it is entirely coincidental. As I've said before, the Latin term for this effect is Post hoc ergo propter hoc, "if this, therefore that" or words to that effect. Signing up for emailed notifications (or text alerts) is a database option, nothing more, speeding up notification to you of an event that was going to happen anyway. It is a good and useful feature, but people need to understand what it can and cannot accomplish. Wikipedia has a nice concise article that goes into a little more detail on this perception:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc 

Signing up for email alerts is not any kind of trace request, and does not result in anything special occurring on the USPS side, beyond a database transaction to set a notification flag on the package record. (Conversely, in past years I routinely signed up for my own tracking notifications of my outbound packages, every single one, but the USPS still managed to delay some and completely lose a couple.) I've written this type of code myself and am quite familiar with it.

What does set off alarm bells is a Trace request or a missing mail claim, which can be submitted if 15 days (for most shipping methods) have elapsed without any sign of activity. That does result in an action request going out to USPS employees at one or more specific locations, to which they're supposed to respond and hopefully turn up your package.

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Don't try to make my post something it wasn't.  I never said signing up for tracking updates is as good as filing a Trace.  That you won't find in any post I've ever made on the subject.  But signing up for tracking updates keep the seller informed and can be very helpful to the seller.

It appears to me that you are trying to make my post seem like something not said or intended.

My initial statement was:  I typically advise a seller to file a Trace first and sign up for email updates on tracking entries.  This usually will shake a package loose.  However if that doesn't work after a couple of days, then file the Missing Mail report.

[a_c_green]

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@mam98031 wrote:
But signing up for tracking updates keep the seller informed and can be very helpful to the seller.

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Yes, absolutely; I have always said that myself.

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@mam98031 wrote:
It appears to me that you are trying to make my post seem like something not said or intended.

My initial statement was:  I typically advise a seller to file a Trace first and sign up for email updates on tracking entries.  This usually will shake a package loose.  However if that doesn't work after a couple of days, then file the Missing Mail report.

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My point was to clarify that "file a trace first" can indeed possibly shake a package loose, but signing up for email updates will not, so combining both into one sentence can give the mistaken impression that either strategy will work. Only the former may work; the latter is just a tracking option.