Buyer returned a completely different laptop than was sent - eBay wants me to refund anyway.

[cell-com]

The laptop I shipped to the buyer was in pristine conditon. Not a single blemish - like new.

I fully tested and inspected the laptop before shipping it.

Next, the buyer requested a return, stating the laptop arrived damaged - a single crack by one of the air vents. I accepted the return assuming this was shipping damage, and I sent the item fully insured. However, when I received the buyer's return, it was not the same laptop. 

The laptop the buyer returned was in severly used and damaged condition - literally full of scuffs, scratches and food residue all over the inside and screen. Completely dead, no power.

This was very odd, since the buyer claimed he received it DOA and it did not power up.

Next, I flipped the laptop over, and noticed the serial number sticker (on the bottom panel) was peeling off. It was clearly removed and replaced, the color was different and it was curling up ...  the buyer peeled off the serial sticker from my laptop, and placed my serial number sticker on his broken laptop and returned this junk to me. There are air bubbles and dirt under the clear serial sticker from removing and replacing it.

Additionally, a 2nd serial number sticker (with a completely different serial number) was present, curled up and stuck to the bottom panel. I assume this may the original serial number sticker of the junk laptop the buyer returned and it somehow was also stuck back to this incorrect laptop.

Additionally, the model of the laptop I sent to the buyer had a Windows 8.1 PRO sticker attached to the bottom panel. However, the returned laptop had a Windows 8.1 STANDARD sticker attached to the bottom panel.

The buyer already did a sloppy job trying to cover up this switcheroo by making it obvious the serial sticker from my laptop was removed and placed on this broken laptop, he also forgot to make the Windows sticker consistent and returned a laptop with an incorrect Windows sticker (Pro vs Standard). And on top of that he included his original serial number sticker?!

After realizing the buyer had switched the laptop by placing the serial number sticker from my laptop on this damaged laptop, I decided to carefully inspect the correspondence the buyer had sent through eBay messaging. What particularly stands out is a message sent by the buyer on 11/22/2015 on the eBay return center "I don't have the expertise to open it up" and later "I haven't screwed with the laptop past seeing its non-functional, I haven't messed with the insides".

This is very strange he would make these unsolicited statements, since the buyer appears to also sell laptop parts on eBay - particularly laptops, motherboards and laptop CPU's, which would certainly mean that the buyer does have the expertise to switch these parts (he actually sells these laptop parts on eBay per his eBay feedback for his account).

In addition, the buyer somehow felt the need to state he didn't "mess with the insides" although he didn't even sent his return at that time, so there really was no reason for him to state this - unless in fact he did do the Switcheroo and he was defending himself prematurely before even sending the Switcheroo item.

Altogether it is very obvious that the buyer swapped the serial number stickers and returned his broken laptop instead of the pristine laptop I sent him, especially since he also accidentally included both serial number stickers.

So obviously I did not refund the buyer, and escalated the return to a case by clicking the  "ask us to step in and help", and explaining that the buyer returned the incorrect item,

that I have edidence, plenty of photos etc. 

Here is what eBay replied:

I wanted to send you a quick note to remind you that you still have time to issue the refund to your buyer now that the item has been returned to you to. I understand the buyer opened the case stating the item arrived defective. I can imagine how upsetting it would be to have a case opened against you.

I know that these types of transactions can be difficult to handle.

We kindly ask that you return to the eBay Resolution Center by 12/12/2015 and issue your buyer the $1,059.70 refund so we may close the case and credit you your eBay and PayPal fees.

Please note this case will be reviewed again within 2 business days of the last day for you to refund the buyer, which will be 12/15/2015. If we do not see that the refund has been initiated through the resolution center, we will close the case in your buyer’s favor and issue the refund on your behalf and seek reimbursement from you. If eBay has to refund the buyer, it can affect your search placement, selling limits, and other factors.  As we want to see you receive your fees back, we appreciate your promptness in issuing the refund.

Thank you again for choosing eBay. We appreciate your cooperation and I wish you all the best with your future transactions.

Sincerely,

Jordan A.

eBay Customer Service

So eBay wants the scammer to get a full refund, although I have plenty of evidence? The scammer returned a laptop with two pealed of serial number stickers?!

I process a lot of returns without any issues. Sure, no seller likes returns, but it is parts of doing business and I take back items in used conditon all the time, even if it was the buyer's error.

Several hours after I escalated the case to eBay, the buyer changed his eBay User ID.

But this is not acceptable and eBay should not let the buyer get away with this. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.

[gopetersen]

cell wrote: "Next, I flipped the laptop over, and noticed the serial number sticker (on the bottom panel) was peeling off. It was clearly removed and replaced, the color was different and it was curling up ...  the buyer peeled off the serial sticker from my laptop, and placed my serial number sticker on his broken laptop and returned this junk to me. There are air bubbles and dirt under the clear serial sticker from removing and replacing it."

Wow, they are getting bolder and bolder.

Well, a buyer who does this can't claim they sent back the wrong laptop by mistake. Serial numbers don't swap themselves.

DO NOT contact eBay yet. The following is for clear cases of fraud (not suspected fraud). Yours appears to be pretty clear. If you are certain the buyer commited fraud, do this...

1. Go to USPS and file for mail fraud:  https://postalinspectors.uspis.gov/contactus/filecomplaint.aspx

2. Go to ic3/FBI and report Internet fraud: https://www.ic3.gov/complaint/default.aspx  The ic3/FBI will give you email confirmation with a report number. Keep that number.

3. Contact the BUYER'S local police department and report mail fraud/theft. Ask if you can get a report number (they sometimes will give you one and sometimes won't and whether they'll even take a report depends how busy they are).

If there's a place in the reports to add the comment that the buyer tried to swap serial numbers (but damaged the stickers in the process) it will help document that this was intentional, not a case of the buyer making a returns mistake.

Now...

When you have all this information in hand, you contact eBay and report the buyer for fraudulent returns. Tell them step-by-step what you did and give them the report numbers. If eBay has taken a refund out of your PayPal account, they should return it. If they haven't, then keep an eye on the account and make sure there is no refund given in the next few days. Say as little as possible to the buyer.

[stonevintage]

This isn't the first or probably not the 10,000 time this type of fraud has happened. Don't sell these types of items here. Just don't sell these types of items HERE.

[gopetersen]

I don't know how many of these scammers are in their teens or 20s, but they're in for a big surprise next time they look for a job.

Some police information is in the public domain. Suspected crime is not (unless somebody brags about scamming a laptop on Facebook), but prosecuted crime is and once it's on the Net, it's forever.

About 80% of businesses now do background checks before hiring. They don't do it themselves, they go through third-party agencies so that the applicants can't charge them with discrimination, but those private companies can look up anything they want and some companies have amassed huge databases from public records AND the Internet (including social networking pictures and comments) and they pass it on to employers.

Some are dumb enough to brag about scamming on forums specifically devoted to those topics and think they are protected by using handles, but they aren't. Law enforcement can subpoena the IP numbers, private profile information and real names, and it's not that hard to track them down.

[rmd_pc]

I sell a lot of laptops on eBay and am a top rated plus seller, love eBay, and what I do. I agree with one of the answers that you should report it to Law enforcment but don't fight it with eBay. You will lose it, they will put a defect on your seller's dashboard. It has happened to me before and I had to give refund to buyer. 

If you plan on selling on eBay in future then just process the refund and move on but do file the police report. I know how it feels, but trust me, you don't want eBay to close the case in buyer's favor.  

[threshold.sales.group]

Also, use the "report buyer" link and report the buyer for return fraud. Include the case # that you've gotten from doing the other reports. 

Plus consider condensing your story a bit and posting it to the eBay for Business Facebook page.  if you have a twitter account create a link to the story and get the word out - tweet to eBay and your followers. If you lose the case, complain to the San Jose BBB and California Attorney General. Be sure to post your story at the weekly sellers chat on Wednesday afternoon and ask the moderator how you should proceed? The goal is to raise a ruckus.  Buyer return fraud is a dirty secret that mostly operates in the shadows in this business - shine some light on it and I bet you'll get resolution quickly. 

[gopetersen]

rmd wrote: "I agree with one of the answers that you should report it to Law enforcment but don't fight it with eBay. You will lose it, they will put a defect on your seller's dashboard."

You have nothing to lose by fighting eBay, it will be a defect if you don't and might NOT be a defect if you do.

The odds of winning an appeal if the seller has filed the reports and provides eBay with the numbers is much higher and quite a number of sellers have reported success in doing it this way.

Ebay has to pay attention if you file police/FBI/USPS reports. If you are absolutely certain you've been scammed and have reported it to the authorities and eBay continues to side with the buyer, eBay can be accused of aiding and abetting crime and they don't want that.

[toooldtorock]

"The laptop the buyer returned was in severly used and damaged condition"

I would put the serial number in the listing. I would also apply a sticker on the bottom of the

unit that says sold by "X Company". Use a label that is difficult to remove or better yet, self destructs

if removed. Make sure the sticker is in a photo.

This warns scammers you are watching.

[sin-n-dex]

---

@gopetersen wrote:

I don't know how many of these scammers are in their teens or 20s, but they're in for a big surprise next time they look for a job.

Some police information is in the public domain. Suspected crime is not (unless somebody brags about scamming a laptop on Facebook), but prosecuted crime is and once it's on the Net, it's forever.

About 80% of businesses now do background checks before hiring. They don't do it themselves, they go through third-party agencies so that the applicants can't charge them with discrimination, but those private companies can look up anything they want and some companies have amassed huge databases from public records AND the Internet (including social networking pictures and comments) and they pass it on to employers.

Some are dumb enough to brag about scamming on forums specifically devoted to those topics and think they are protected by using handles, but they aren't. Law enforcement can subpoena the IP numbers, private profile information and real names, and it's not that hard to track them down.

---

In a previous job I was hired for, the hiring manager asked if I had a Facebook account. Not being the type of person to post much on there are say anything at all... I just said sure, not worrying about that at all. I found out later she looked for me before the interview, but couldn't find me because I don't use my full real name on FB. I found out even later still, she checked out all applicants on FB before calling them for an interview, and I see what people post about themselves there, so I can get why that's a screening tool.

For the record, in the job I was hired for, I was going to be printing cheques and having them signed, it included typing up cheques from scratch for up to $50,000, and putting them in system to authorize them to be paid. Yes, it's true a crook would get caught at some point for doing a fake cheque, but that might be after the company is out $50,000. That's why they check everyone before they hire them.

Cheers, C.

[straws2000]

I think we should push Ebay to have more seller protection against this buyer scams. I feel your pain. I sold high end dress 2 weeks ago and the buyer filed complain that the dress she received is damage. As I did same as you before I send out all my item I always inspected and took lots of pics so I know exactly my dress I sold to her was perfectly in great and new condition so I asked her to proof it to me if the dress infact was damage and she did send me the a pic and I was surprise to see the huge damage on the dress. The dress was ripped all the way from the hip to the armpit area. I asked her how is happened and I asked her if she tried and force herself into the dress and she claimed she never even try it on. What I think she lied. I called Ebay for help with the situation but They helpless. They told me to refund the money so I can get FV fee back. So I think to myself that there's no way for me to resolve the situation with no Ebay help but to accept the retun. So long story short she return the dress with big surprise that she return fake dress with huge damage. She probably bought this fake designer dress somewhere else and she swap my dress with her cheap damage dress.

I am so upset with this situation. I keep asking myself where is my right? and all seller right against this buyer scammer. This type of buyer is clearly online criminal and need to be presecuted. And I believe Ebay is not being fair handling the situation. 

[blackbird*singing]

---

@straws2000 wrote:

I asked her how is happened and I asked her if she tried and force herself into the dress and she claimed she never even try it on. What I think she lied.

---

Your situation sucks, but I had to laugh at the above comment!

[products_wsm]

I didn't read the long topic opening post or replies, I read only the title.

But buyers can steal on ebay in such a way,  unless you're willling to go to court.

[marinermikes]

Ebay's return policies are absolutely ridiculous. They claim they need to have this return policy to keep up with the big box stores but what they failed to follow up on is that the big box stores have actually found that those return policies were abused.

The big box stores have changed their return policies and put themselves in control of who gets to return a item and who doesn't or even who gets prosecuted.

They do not think that theft on fraudulent returns is the cost of doing business.

I return an item to a box store about once a decade. A couple of months ago I bought a camera battery that was the wrong size. I realize my mistake before I opened it so I decided to take it back.

While standing in line at the Walmart service desk a young man at the counter caught my attention, he was acting nervous, fiddling with his phone and pacing around so I concentrated on listening to what it was about. Though I couldn't hear everything I did figure out it was about the return of some sort of electronic devise. The young man who was behind the counter appeared to be checking the serial number and had a few words with the returner. A few more words were exchanged. At that point another employee got involved, most likely a supervisor.

It didn't take but a couple of minutes. I looked to my left and here comes security with the police. Hand cuffed the thief and hauled him away!

The venue Walmart prosecutes theives. The venue Ebay rewards them and you can't even leave negative feedback to warn others. What's wrong with this picture?

[double2trouble]

---

@marinermikes wrote:

Ebay's return policies are absolutely ridiculous. They claim they need to have this return policy to keep up with the big box stores but what they failed to follow up on is that the big box stores have actually found that those return policies were abused.

The big box stores have changed their return policies and put themselves in control of who gets to return a item and who doesn't or even who gets prosecuted.

They do not think that theft on fraudulent returns is the cost of doing business.

I return an item to a box store about once a decade. A couple of months ago I bought a camera battery that was the wrong size. I realize my mistake before I opened it so I decided to take it back.

While standing in line at the Walmart service desk a young man at the counter caught my attention, he was acting nervous, fiddling with his phone and pacing around so I concentrated on listening to what it was about. Though I couldn't hear everything I did figure out it was about the return of some sort of electronic devise. The young man who was behind the counter appeared to be checking the serial number and had a few words with the returner. A few more words were exchanged. At that point another employee got involved, most li Akely a supervisor.

It didn't take but a couple of minutes. I looked to my left and here comes security with the police. Hand cuffed the thief and hauled him away!

The venue Walmart prosecutes theives. The venue Ebay rewards them and you can't even leave negative feedback to warn others. What's wrong with this picture?

---

My niece works for Walmart, and they have a prosecute everything policy. No matter what, the police are going to get called. 

[shed-flips]

---

@cell-com wrote:

The laptop I shipped to the buyer was in pristine conditon. Not a single blemish - like new.

I fully tested and inspected the laptop before shipping it.

Next, the buyer requested a return, stating the laptop arrived damaged - a single crack by one of the air vents. I accepted the return assuming this was shipping damage, and I sent the item fully insured. However, when I received the buyer's return, it was not the same laptop. 

The laptop the buyer returned was in severly used and damaged condition - literally full of scuffs, scratches and food residue all over the inside and screen. Completely dead, no power.

This was very odd, since the buyer claimed he received it DOA and it did not power up.

---

You said the item was fully insured.  Why did you have the buyer send the laptop back to you if it was allegedly damaged in shipping?  When I have a buyer claiming damage, I immediately have them take photos and send them to me.  Then I file the damage claim.  No need for the buyer to send the package back to you.  As a matter of fact - why couldn't the carrier question whether the damage happened going to or fro at that point?  Sorry you got scammed, hope it turns out ok for you.