Buyer has refund and item refuses to pay me back w/o invoice which I can't produce.

[kut11]

Item number 265888397139 sold to buyer on September 21, shipped next day 9-22 via UPS 1Z14V5340329422467. Around 9-26 UPS had a hiccup, and the package went missing. Within a day of this occurrence the buyer contacted me claiming the package was supposed to be delivered and was not, on his own he called UPS and they told him to contact the sender (me) to report it lost. I told buyer I would follow up and did so trigging a lost item search by UPS on 9-28. I informed buyer I filed a claim with UPS and asked him to wait another 4 days to see if the item turned up and was delivered. He agreed. After 4 days the buyer asked for a refund, I complied and issued refund through eBay for 39.62 on 10/04.  I then asked buyer to do the right thing and to contact me if the package was subsequently delivered. On 10-17 I noticed the package was delivered to the buyer on 10/12 but he hadn't contacted me. I contacted buyer on the 17th requesting the item back or the money back. And of course, he claimed he was currently out of town on work related business and when he returned home on 10/19, he would see if he got the package. He added to send him an invoice. I tried to send an invoice and found it can't be done after a refund, so instead I sent a very detailed message with all the pertinent information and dates requesting he send payment to my PayPal account. I also sent a "request funds" through PayPal. He refuses to send payment claiming what I request is in violation of eBay rules. (Well, not a bad excuse for someone who signed on eBay in January 22. with 15 FB's).  I contacted eBay went through this whole scenario they claimed there wasn't much they could do but would send it up to the next level for investigation and it would take about 7 days. When Ebay answered the phone, they said thank you for your loyalty of 22 years, in closing with eBay I mentioned my loyalty time and asked them to contrast it to this buyer who only took 6 months to steal from a long-time member. 

Anyone have another solution on this incident?

[inhawaii]

Sorry this happened to you.
Take the loss and go on with life.
I believe in  karma.  

[farmalljr]

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@gamersbaystore wrote:

Nonsense. ebay's terms of service do not override the laws of this nation. The OP refunded because they thought the item was lost. Once it was delivered, the buyer then has a legal obligation to pay, otherwise its theft, specifically mail fraud.

I give them a chance to repay or send the item back. If they refuse, I report them for mail fraud.

The postal service will go after the buyers too if they get enough complaints. I have received restitution checks from buyers multiple times over the years, all the result of those buyers being charged and convicted by the postal service.

This is also why you don't use garbage services like UPS, you use USPS because of the added legal protections. USPS has broad authority to charge people with crimes, UPS does not.

USPS could care less what ebay's policies are.

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No, what is nonsense is your response. If you VOLUNTARILY give someone their money back, there IS no legal basis to sue them or prosecute them. Common sense dictates that the seller COULD have recalled the package. But, obviously, they didn't. Your apples and pencils comparison is hogwash. The postal service is not going to investigate cases where you voluntarily REFUND someone. That's not mail fraud, it a sellers poor business decision. 

I anger here is entertaining. The armchair lawyering is twice as entertaining. I didn't know eBay had so many sellers who moonlighted as lawyers, LMAO.

[kitschy*loot]

There is no law of the nation that I've heard of which says a person has to return or repay for an item after they've received a refund, that doesn't mean a person shouldn't, but there is no legal obligation to speak of and in fact everything legal that I can find online says there is no such law, but if there is I wouldn't mind seeing proof of this. I consider myself to be an honest person and I believe in karma, so I would never take the route this seller's buyer has taken, but they have committed no crime that I know of.

Since when has The United States Postal Service been allowed to actually charge and convict anyone of anything? I didn't know they had these powers you speak of.

[katzrul15]

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@kut11 wrote:

Hi, thanks for the response, you're a forward-thinking person. However, the buyer today claims he talked to eBay this morning 10-22 and they told him he has no obligation to pay. At least that is what he is now claiming.

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If they did speak with e-Bay, that is likely what they were told.

Buyer has no obligation or incentive to offer payment again.  Morally, they should, but am guessing many do not.

[this*old*attic]

Seller probably didn’t know he could do so. And I disagree he’d lose in court for the reasons I’ve stated. I’d add that EBay’s TOS doesn’t matter because they stepped outside of it and made their own contract. Having been in small claims court several times, and winning every time, I’m pretty good at IDing the winnable points (i.e. buyer asked for invoice).

[this*old*attic]

Are you intentionally ignoring facts? Seriously.

[this*old*attic]

The salient points here are that seller asked to be notified if it arrived and buyer asked for a new invoice.

[stephenmorgan]

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@albertabrightalberta wrote:

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@buyselljack2016 wrote:

@kut11 

As in this case, once a transaction goes south, and eBay is done with it, payment can be requested/made via PP.

Not a violation of eBay policy. Even a recommended solution from ebay "blues".

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How would this be done without the seller knowing the buyer's email address, no longer disclosed by ebay?

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There is a 15 day time period where you are allowed to exchange emails after a paid transaction.  Once the 15 days has expired then I don't know.  I always provide my email as part of the transaction just encase there is a problem that needs to be resolved after the 15 days.

[rugerskick]

Block the buyer.

Report the buyer.

[stephenmorgan]

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@kitschy*loot wrote:

Since when has The United States Postal Service been allowed to actually charge and convict anyone of anything? I didn't know they had these powers you speak of.

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They absolutely do and people have gone to jail for mail fraud.  If it was a one time thing depending on the value they may do nothing.  If it is a continually happening thing they will go after someone.

The even have a special enforcement department.  Take a look at their closed investigations.

https://www.uspsoig.gov/closed-investigations

[kut11]

I found buyer's "adste-48" telephone number, went to my PP account and requested payment through his telephone number. I had option of e-mail or telephone number to request money. Ultimately, he canceled request.

[stephenmorgan]

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@kut11 wrote:

I found buyer's "adste-48" telephone number, went to my PP account and requested payment through his telephone number. I had option of e-mail or telephone number to request money. Ultimately, he canceled request.

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Unfortunately it seems as if the buyer does not intend to  pay you.  The only thing maybe you could do is send them a handwritten letter and express how you understood that you gave the refund under the condition they repay you or send item back if item was delivered afterwards.  I see they have items for sale so maybe ask them what would they expect under similar circumstances.

Sometimes eBay tells someone they do not have to return a item and this is justification for a person not to return a item or pay for it.  I think it should be more like eBay is no longer involved in the dispute and it is between seller and buyer if they want to work out something.

I have been ripped off four times since 1980. 

I reported three to the USPS.  On two of them the USPS said it was a bad business practice and not criminal.  One of them the USPS did convict the person for Mail Fraud and he went to jail.  I was not the only victim on this one.  There were a lot of victims and that is why they went after him.

The fourth one was a eBay transaction and I knew from past experience there was nothing I could do about it.

All I can say is the sooner you let this go the sooner you will feel better.