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Buyer Scam: abuse of eBay buyer protection

Recently i had a buyer contact me staring the Barbie I had shipped him was not as described. He stated the doll's makeup was entirely faded and he would like to "work it out" with me. I knew instantly something wasn't right because not only was the doll in perfect condition, but she was still packaged in her original box. I decided to check his profile and just by hunch took a look at the feedback he  had left for others. Hmmmmmmm, I noticed quite a few negative feedback a he'd left within the last 30 days and also saw where some feedback had been revised. I decided at that point I was not going to play host to his scam and left a message kindly informing him that six photographs were provided as well as A detailed and accurate description on the listing. Additionally my preferences stated that I do not accept returns. For this reason, I would not be offering him a refund. 

Then his following message, yes plural messages, called me names as he attempted to bully me. He left negative comments and opened a case against me. 

I then contacted eBay via phone and relayed the messages he had sent to me in addition to the continuous use of negative feedback as a ploy to receive refunds on the goods he purchased. I was told they take this seriously and they would handle the case. Another week went by and the eBay case was closed; however a Paypal case was opened demanding a refund due to item not being as described.i then provided PayPal with screen prints of his messages as well as history of negative feedback abuse. I was shocked when PayPal granted his return request. I was happy that at least he did return the exact doll, undamaged, and in an unopened box. 

This is what upset me the most. Despite eBay allowing sellers to set their preferences on their profile, those preferences are not honored. This man's eBay account is STILL open and he continues to abuse the buyer protection policy as noted by his feedback left for others. I've taken it upon myself to monitor his feedback log and notify each seller when he leaves bad feedback for them. I urge them to follow up on his feedback and not only file an online complaint against him, but call Ebat as well to report him because of this one experience and th manner in which eBay and PayPal managed this issue, I am contemplating no longer doing business on this platform. There NEEDS to be seller protection as well.

A Disheartened Seller

Message 1 of 27
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26 REPLIES 26

Re: Buyer Scam: abuse of eBay buyer protection

Hard to say exactly went on here but I have a hunch you might have gotten a beloved and seasoned partial refund scam bug. These bugs have existed here for many years. Usually these folks message you with something a little off about your product. They are fishing for a partial refund. "lets work something out". If this was the case or if this was just someone who just wanted a return you simply reply with not a tone of anger in your message. "please return for full refund". Now, if this was a true partial refund fisher they would have probably given up and just kept the item, or they will return it because they might find another seller who will respond with a partial refund. OR, they simply were a buyer who just did not want the item and because you say you offer NO RETURNS, they had to think up some reason to return it. If you have NO REFUNDS on your listings there may be a higher percentage of SNAD cases opened for this reason.

Message 16 of 27
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Re: Buyer Scam: abuse of eBay buyer protection

How can these individuals be shut down?
Message 17 of 27
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Re: Buyer Scam: abuse of eBay buyer protection


@antebellumannes wrote:
How can these individuals be shut down?

They can't.  Not because you can't prove the intent in their heart - but because their scammy habits are profitable to ebay.

 

A reseller that scams their merchandise off ebay sellers means that ebay not only makes the fees when it sold, but ebay getsa second set of fees when the scammer resells it on ebay.  On top of that, a scammer will buy hundreds more items than an honest buyer will.  So as long as on scammy buyer can make more money for ebay in a month than an honest part time seller will in their entire history on ebay - then ebay will continue to cater to the people that are making them the most money.

(*Bleep*)
Message 18 of 27
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Re: Buyer Scam: abuse of eBay buyer protection

theda-bara-1919
Thrill-Seeker
Why didn't you just take a return? It does look faded when compared to another listing of the same doll.
Message 19 of 27
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Re: Buyer Scam: abuse of eBay buyer protection

Theda-bara-1919
There were several Happy Birthday Barbie's made. He 1982 had light makeup in comparison to the collector's editions released in the 1990s. I'm not certain I understand which doll you are comparing her to, but that hardly matters at this point.
The individual wanted a partial refund. When he opened a case with eBay, he never provided photos as required. I'm thrilled that in the end, I received the doll back in the same condition and can re-list again.
My complaint is that this individual consistantly leaves negative feedback for others (which can easily be viewed on his feedback for others page) and uses this scamming tactic over and over again. This issue is bigger than my $12.99 (yes that was the starting price) doll.
Message 20 of 27
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Re: Buyer Scam: abuse of eBay buyer protection


@savanna.dance wrote:

@emerald40 we are both aware of how eBay decides cases normally. 😞

I'm thinking PayPal, now that they are a separate company, has to apply the rules consistently across all platforms they serve.

Probably some regulation they could be sued over if they tried to say eBay buyer's weren't eligible for protection when using them as a payment processor.


Then they shouldn't be legaly allowed to place holds on accounts of eBay (only) sellers.




Crusader Cat is watching


Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself. - L Tolstoy


"You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not however, entitled to your own facts."

Message 21 of 27
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Re: Buyer Scam: abuse of eBay buyer protection

I agree.  Ebay is useless in protecting sellers.  Sellers can use and abuse your items then seek a refund after they damaged them.  Absolutely ridiculous and then it ends up hurting the honest seller.

Message 22 of 27
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Re: Buyer Scam: abuse of eBay buyer protection

I only began selling in earnest on eBay about 6 months ago, but in those 6 months I've had about 1600 sales.  I did the math.  The best way to minimize losses is to offer (and grant) returns for any reason.  1) When scammers see an open-return policy, they avoid those items- they know the seller understands the system and will immediately grant a full return, negating the scam effort.  2) If you sell enough to qualify as a Top Rated Plus seller, you'll make up the losses on shipping to scammers with a significantly reduced eBay commission. 3) Maintaining your Seller Dashboard stats, and therefore your selling eligibility and status, will become infinitely easier, because you'll never have a case opened against you.  "I'm sorry the item was not to your liking, please request a return, seller pays the return shipping".  Again, you'll make up your losses on shipping to scamers with the significantly reduced eBay commission. 4) The few scammers I do get now who request 'discounts/partial refunds', I apologize and ask them to submit a return request. 95% of the time, they won't follow through on the return request.  And, if they threaten to leave negative feedback unless I give them a 'discount/partial return', I simply refer them to eBay's "Feedback Extortion" policy, which explicitly forbids threatening to leave negative feedback unless the buyer receives ANY kind of monetary return- discount/refund/return.  

 

Believe me, I found all this out the hard way.  I used to bicker with eBay reps on the phone about the scammers who opened cases and left negative feedback, and I wasted hours upon hours of my life trying to right the perceived wrongs done against me.  Sooo much wasted time and effort.  The reality is that we have to take our lessons from the BIG sellers- retailers.  Accept a return for any reason and always cede to the customer.  eBay is no longer a trading platform, it is an opportunity for individual enterprisers to access the same level customer base as the big retailers.  The thing sellers need to understand, is that although eBay offers the option to engage it like a trading platform, for anyone interested in genuinely earning income on eBay, you have to regard it as a business on a professional level. The only way to do so is to become a Top Rated Plus seller who accepts returns for any reason, and reports people who are scammers, but without ever participating in negative interaction with the scammer.  Like I said, I learned this the hard way with 2 negative feedbacks in one month. The hardest part is swallowing your pride when you know you're being taken advantage of.  I HATE IT.  The reason I'm here writing this right now is because I was scammed today- or rather, I allowed myself to be scammed as part of what I have come to accept as regular business losses-  a part of the price incurred for the privilege of doing business on eBay. 

 

eBay is a business no different than any other business, and has to focus on growth.  It's as simple as that.  Any other objective is ridiculous. For eBay to grow, it needs buyers to feel they have the same level of customer protection they would have at any of the big retailers- the customer is always right, and we always grant returns.  To be a legitimate seller on eBay, you have to play by these rules.  This is the price you pay in exchange for access to hundreds of millions of buyers worldwide.  For those sellers opining for eBay to return to its trading platform roots, there's a simple solution- go sell on Bonanza.  If you want the privilege of access to hundreds of millions of buyers, you have to maintain the same principals and standards as any other retailer who has access to hundreds of millions of buyers.  I know the vast majority of sellers are revolted by this idea, but it's simple business logic.  If you want a friendly co-op trading platform, they're out there.  The problem is, every item in my eBay inventory is also listed on Bonanza.  While I currently average 250 sales per month on eBay (and growing monthly), I've had 4 total sales in 3 months on Bonanza.  If you want the privilege of selling on eBay, you have to regard it realistically.  You are participating in a business platform which competes against the big retailers- Walmart, Cabela's, department stores, etc.  If you're unwilling to accept their proven strategy, you simply won't survive.

 

Create a completely open return policy.

Never attempt to decline a return, and never accept a discount/partial refund offer.

Never engage in negative interaction with a customer. Politely say, "I am so sorry for your dissatisfaction.  Please submit a return request, seller pays the rreturn shipping."

KNOW THE RULES.  Feedback Extortion is strictly prohibited. 

ACCEPT LOSSES TO SCAMMERS AS ROUTINE BUSINESS LOSSES- it took me 3 months of constant stress to come to terms with this, but anything else is going to result in endless stress, hassle, bickering with phone reps, lost time (and therefore income), and eventually, after enough incidents, eBay is going to restrict your selling to send you a message- you have too many problems with customers and that threatens our reputation and in return, our profitability.  And if you don't get the message, well, we all know what the next step is.


 

Message 23 of 27
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Re: Buyer Scam: abuse of eBay buyer protection

I don't understand why are so many people yielding to all this **bleep** and still using eBay. You know Paypal and eBay will 99% of the time side with the buyer, buyer gets your stuff and the money. Your on the losing end. Why scammers are still around happily preying on you is because they know you'll still continue using it, despite knowing you'll get scammed the 2nd time, 3rd time and so on. You guys are delusional HOPING and PRAYING that you will get LESS bad buyers or eBay or Paypal MIGHT side with you despite you diligiently recording and keeping evidence about your sold merchandise plus shipping details, or eBay and Paypal might come up with a whole new seller protection service. This ain't gonna happen. If they cared enough, they would have heard everyone and come up with PROPER improvements YEARS ago. I myself got scammed thrice (all honest sales) buyer claimed they never received it though the tracking states so. I learnt my lesson, and since then stopped using it.   I have my goods and my money. I can sleep well now.

 

So if you get scammed by a buyer in future, it is expected as this site is now full of scammers. You can't avoid it. Mankind is getting worse by the minute. Don't blame the bad buyer nor eBay or Paypal. Blame it on your GREED. You CHOSE to use it.

Message 24 of 27
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Re: Buyer Scam: abuse of eBay buyer protection

What eBay needs to do is update it's policy; once it has closed a case, buyers should have no other recourse. If they go to PayPal or do a chargeback, their accounts should be immediately terminated. Everyone should live and die by eBay's rulings. 

Message 25 of 27
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Re: Buyer Scam: abuse of eBay buyer protection

I just had a similar case happen to me with a buyer who purchsed a beautiful, collectible porcelain figurine, sent in it's original box, and in perfect; MINT condition.  The item was then packed in a larger shipping box, packed beautifully and shipped.  Upon receipt of the item, the buyer opens a return case against me citing the item was "damaged", and that both the "head and legs were broken off".  Of course this is not possible as the figurine was jointed and the limbs are moveable, allowing for standing, sitting, bending, tilting, or turning. The arms and legs were held in their sockets with a strong, elastic type rope material which would make it impossible for the legs to be "broken off".  The buyer later changed their description to "fallen off", also not possible.  The only way the legs could come off is by intentional, blunt force; and pulled off.  What makes my case even more laughable is that this was a limited edition, numbered piece.  I immediately stepped up and contacted both ebay and buyer insisting on appropriate photos identifying the figurine I sent, including the body parts of the head and legs they claimed, "broke or fell off". I also asked to see a photo of the original manufacturer box; but all were denied to me. Once I refused to refund the money, buyer opened a case against me and I then received an email from ebay telling me "case opened", and that they would review all the materials and notes, and photos, which I thought included an investigation of buyer abuse that I filed as well as the photos I repeatedly asked for.  "NOPE"!  I received the "case opened" email at 10:23 am and the "we've sided in the buyers favor" email at 10:27 am (just 4 minutes later). Ebay did not even read any of my notes, they did not request photos, and could care less about identifying the serial number of the limited numbered piece I sent.  I must have called two dozen times since this Hell started with both the buyer and ebay, and I was told by nearly everyone I spoke with that the buyer is always right.  Ebay has placed a hold on my funds with paypal until the case is closed.  In addition, ebay plans on keeping all of my seller fees they collected, and yet still expect me to refund the buyers moneyin full, and accept a broken item back that the buyer swapped out for my beautiful, perfect piece. I am so disgusted that I am never going to sell or buy on ebay every again, and as soon as I am able to close my account with both ebay and paypal I will, but they won't even allow me to do that.  Ebay has convicted and sentenced me without any proof or explanation from the buyer.  I noticed ebay was sued in a class action suit in 2014 for the sum of $30 million, and when I brought this up to the appeals dept today the man said, that was in 2014.  Suffice it say that  you can not win, ebay will always side with the buyer and after what they have done to me I am done.  I wish all the great sellers best of luck and please beware of buyer scammers.

Message 26 of 27
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Re: Buyer Scam: abuse of eBay buyer protection

Hello Everyone,

 

Due to the age of the thread, it has been closed to further replies.  Please feel free to start a new thread if you wish to continue to discuss this topic.

 

Thanks for understanding!

Message 27 of 27
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