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Need information on this silk fabric inscribed art piece.

It measures about 27" x 20" silk type fabric with hand woven black thread for the lettering and words. The frame measures 34" x 27".  There are pictures of the entire piece and some up close of the words.  What language is this? Also, any other info would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks for your help!

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Message 1 of 29
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28 REPLIES 28

Re: Need information on this silk fabric inscribed art piece.

As someone who's done waaay too many ill-advised cross-stitch, needlepoint, crewel and embroidered pieces, I'm with @lacemaker3. This HAS to be the reverse of the piece. 

Message 16 of 29
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Re: Need information on this silk fabric inscribed art piece.

Okay, so here's a ridiculous thought:

 

There are many repeating figures in this piece, (and, upon saying this, I revoke my former assertion that the images up top MUST be the reverse.)

 

It reminds me of a symbol cipher code test. (Or text.) 

 

The only problem is the high number of repeating characters. There are too many to suggest a directly translatable language, but it could still be a code of some kind. A shorthand. 

 

I know this is a wild shot in the dark, but it doesn't mirror any alphabet I'm familiar with, and it was done with too much precision and on too fine a substrate to be a whim. 

 

Hope like неll an answer is found, I'm dead curious. 

 

 

Message 17 of 29
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Re: Need information on this silk fabric inscribed art piece.


@maeday76 wrote:

There are many repeating figures in this piece, (and, upon saying this, I revoke my former assertion that the images up top MUST be the reverse.)


The reverse of the piece is shown in OP's message #11 - all other photos are of the front. I'm thinking the loose threads might be intentional, imitating flourishes of the quill.

Message 18 of 29
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Re: Need information on this silk fabric inscribed art piece.


@maeday76 wrote:

As someone who's done waaay too many ill-advised cross-stitch, needlepoint, crewel and embroidered pieces, I'm with @lacemaker3. This HAS to be the reverse of the piece. 


 

Yes, I would have agreed, until I saw the picture of the other side! It's even worse (as a piece of embroidery).

 

I have also done embroidery, and the difficulty is that the stitches are too loose and sloppy, and the ends are finished off too loosely and messily, for this to be a completed piece of embroidery. However, there are some other aspects of it that are very precise.

 

I have an idea, but I need some more information to follow up and check: 

What are the dimensions of the piece, and what do the side edges look like?

 

Unfortunately, the closeup of the fringed edge is still a bit out of focus, so I can't see what the fibres are like. But, I still think that it is compatible with being woven with reeled silk as the warp, and spun silk as the weft, or tsumugi in the Japanese tradition. That doesn't mean that it was necessarily made in Japan, because similar fabrics could have been elsewhere.

 

@cjmust30, do you have any context or provenance for this piece? Any history? Were there any other similar pieces found with it?

Message 19 of 29
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Re: Need information on this silk fabric inscribed art piece.

The piece was purchased Sunday at an Estate sale of an elderly individual that had many diverse pieces. There was no fluidity to the subject matter in the home. This piece stood out so much that I purchased on sight. The original owner had a large painted self portrait which looked to be of possible Middle Eastern descent (female)? The frame is pieced together with a maticulous nature that it intrigued me so much that I snagged the piece.

Message 20 of 29
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Re: Need information on this silk fabric inscribed art piece.

Thanks.... I will check the links that you provided. That is a nice blown up shot of the text.

Message 21 of 29
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Re: Need information on this silk fabric inscribed art piece.

This could be a possibility, but I lean towards the text actually being a language. It might not be perfectly represented, but seems to be a language anyway. 

Message 22 of 29
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Re: Need information on this silk fabric inscribed art piece.

Also, the piece measures 27" x 20". Here is a picture of the side edge. Note: the picture might be blurry sometimes because it is capturing the outside glass.

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Message 23 of 29
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Re: Need information on this silk fabric inscribed art piece.

@cjmust30,

 

Thanks for the additional information. I wanted to see the sides so I could see if the fabric had been woven this width (no), or if it was cut from a wider piece, which was the case because of the fringe on the sides.

 

I asked about the dimensions, because if it had been a narrower piece that was woven in that width (say, 15 to 20 inches wide) that would have suggested that the fabric was woven in Japan. But it is wider than that, and was cut from an even wider piece of fabric, so that doesn't suggest it was a Japanese fabric.

 

The lack of finishing on the edges, and the unfinished embroidery, suggests to me that this piece was never finished, and may not have been intended to have this appearance when it was finished. 

 

It appears to me that the stitching was intended as a preparation or set up for something else to be done. Possibly, the existing stitches might have been removed completely, when the item was finished. But I don't know of any kind of embroidery or textile technique that would use such a set up technique.

 

It was reminding me of a dying technique called shibori in Japanese. This is loosely translated as "tie dye" in English, but professional shibori in Japan was extremely precise, carefully executed, and produced very beautiful fabrics. Many shibori techniques rely on precisely placed stitches, which are placed evenly (but not necessarily in regular or repeating patterns) all over the fabric. Once the fabric has been covered with stitches, the stitching threads are pulled tightly to gather the fabric into a predetermined pattern, and then dyed. The tight gathers prevent dye from reaching the fabric, so this produces an overall pattern. I thought this might have been a demonstration piece, used to teach or explain the process. But, since the fabric does not appear to be Japanese, that doesn't support this theory. It might have been for a similar technique done somewhere else, I suppose.

 

I don't know why an unfinished piece, with stitching that does not appear to meet the standards of quality for an embroidered piece, would have been mounted like this, in such a careful way to protect it, and allow both sides to be examined.

 

This might be a way of protecting a historically significant piece, to conserve it. That might have been done for a museum piece.

 

Or, it could be a demonstration piece, showing one step in a process, and was mounted like this so it could be used for teaching without it being damaged. But, as I said, I don't know what embroidery technique it might be. I'm familiar with (not an expert in) a number of advanced embroidery techniques, including medieval techniques used in Europe, and those used in Japan and China. I don't recognize this embroidery technique.

 

So, at this point, my best guess is that it's a demonstration piece for some embroidery technique that I'm not familiar with. 

 

If anyone is able to identify the letters or language, and provide a translation, then I'm completely wrong, and I will be very happy to hear about it.

Message 24 of 29
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Re: Need information on this silk fabric inscribed art piece.

Well thank you very much. I will keep investigating and report any findings. 

Message 25 of 29
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Re: Need information on this silk fabric inscribed art piece.

I used your photo and put it up on Reddit!

Message 26 of 29
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Re: Need information on this silk fabric inscribed art piece.

Thank you for explaining your thoughts on this. I am very happy to hear expansive thoughts on a mystery of any kind and if it furthers my knowledge of needle arts, I thank you all the more!! 

 

When you see the patterns of stitching, does it look like it could be shimori?

Message 27 of 29
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Re: Need information on this silk fabric inscribed art piece.

@maeday76, I'm not sure what you mean by shimori. I just googled that word, and it's a Japanese surname, although not a very common one.

 

I do think that the patterns of stitching look like stitched shibori, or Japanese tie dye. However, a quick search did not find any techniques that were worked like this. Mostly, the line of the thread is straight not up-and-down like this. Since there are usually multiple threads placed parallel to each other, making straight stitches is more efficient for time and labor.

 

If a piece being prepared for ori-nui was flattened out, it would look like these, but most online tutorials are showing the ori-nui stitches being worked along a folded edge, so the thread path is straight, not up-and-down like this piece. It would only look like this if the stitching was worked with the fabric flat, rather than along a folded edge. Or if the stitching was extremely loose, so that the fabric could be flattened after it was stitched. I don't see any indications that the fabric was manipulated like that in OP's piece.

 

So, I don't know. The fabric is wider than a standard Japanese kimono fabric as well, which suggests it might not be from Japan. It could be a similar technique worked in some other region or tradition.

Message 28 of 29
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Re: Need information on this silk fabric inscribed art piece.

@lacemaker3 My apologies for misspellingshibori. I only recently saw a piece of it for the first time and I was excited to think this might have been an abandoned project of traditional Japanese textile work. (And to possibly see how it was done.)

 

I know that every time a woman (older than I am) in my family dies, I get to mourn over a trunk of never-to-be-finished works of exquisite needlecraft. 

 

It would be nice to be able to attribute it to the correct artform if not the maker themselves. 

 

Thanks for your knowledge. I'm glad you're on here. 

Message 29 of 29
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