EBAY IS MISTAKENLY TAKING DOWN ANCIENT COINS THEY THINK ARE FROM IRAN-SIGLOS COINS

[treasures_galore]

     This is a warning to my fellow friends on here who sell coins on eBay. If you have Siglois on eBay that feature kings from the Persian Empire, get ready to have your listings taken down. They mistakenly believe these were minted in Iran. I talked to more than one person at eBay and they say these listings being taken down cannot be appealed because a person is making the decision and not the eBay computer system itself.

     Among the proof that these should not be taken down for violating the embargo against Iran is this link:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Achaemenid_coinage  It states:  Although the Achaemenids fully exploited and developed coinage production in Western Asia, it seems barter economy remained quite important in the Iranian heartland throughout the Achaemenid period, and the Achaemenids did not develop their own mints in Iran.[12] The minting of coins in Iran would only start later from circa 330 BC under Alexander the Great and the Seleucid Empire.[12]

    So, there were no coins minted in Iran when these coins were minted. Therefore, they were not minted in Iran. They were minted in western Turkey in Lydia/Sardis. eBay refuses to reconsider putting these coins back up that many of us have invested in to sell on eBay like we have for years. There were no mints in Iran when the coins were made!  They will not allow an appeal even with the proof of their error. 

    They did the same thing on my electronics site back in the day. I spent a few thousand dollars on some Infinity RS 2.5 speakers to resell on eBay. They took all of my listings down because there was a virtual game that was called RS 2.5 and they said I could not call the speakers RS 2.5.  They told me I had to call them something else, to which I replied, that is their name and what they are called and how they are looked up and how I have sold them for years. They did not care and would not allow an appeal. I lost money.

     They currently are taking down tribute pennies on eBay as well.  These are the coins that were minted from 14-37 AD under the reign of TIberius and are mentioned in the Bible.  eBay came up with a policy that says a coin that is called a tribute means it is fake. These coins are real and mine are authenticated by NGC. They will not let me post them using the word tribute in the title. They told me to call it something else. I replied, that is what they are and have been called for centuries. That is what people look them up as.  Somehow about 30 listings have made it through the security set up and they get to call them tribute pennies.  eBay does not realize a tribute is a sum of money paid to a ruler for specific purposes of government, such as for taxes or protection, or to be allowed to live semiautonomously.  They will not allow an appeal.  I have more examples but I digress.

     I have sold over $1million in items on eBay between my two stores over the last 19 years. This is becoming an increasing problem where eBay makes decisions that bans things under a mistaken premise or just because it has a similar name to something they want to ban. We suffer and customer service only says they can do nothing to help us and cannot appeal. I hope someone that makes decisions in eBay will read this. I have used eBay for so long and still believe in it.  They just need to allow appeals where they make mistakes. The coins  were not minted in Iran and break no policy.  etc etc. Thank you. Matt

[treasures_galore]

Someone reported my post as spam.  This is not spam. It is a real concern affecting many people who sell coins on eBay.

[maxine*j]

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@treasures_galore wrote:

     ...  This is becoming an increasing problem where eBay makes decisions that bans things under a mistaken premise or just because it has a similar name to something they want to ban... 

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It is true in every category. 

A seller noted on another board that something from Oman was pulled because of "the embargo."  The spelling of Oman is close to that of Iran and it does not matter that the countries are 1700 miles apart and there has never been an embargo on anything from Oman.  Just look at that spelling!   Four letters, first letter is a vowel, second letter is a consonant, third letter is the vowel A, fourth letter is the  consonant N.  Pretty darned suspicious, eh?  🙄

Another seller had an inch-long, plastic trinket gun, made with a little ring to put it on a keychain or zipper pull or whatever,  removed as a violation of the weapons and firearms policy. 

"French Ivory," which is what a kind of celluloid was called from the turn of the 20th Century until the 1940s, is pulled as a violation of selling products from endangered species.

An O.J. Simpson book was pulled as "hate" material when, in fact, the Goldman family wrote half of it and all royalties from its sale went to them.

I could give you many other examples from nearly every category.  And all I can tell you is that I see is no hope for improvement because, in fact, this is getting worse all the time. 

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[waxu_93]

There is no connection between ancient Iran and the current Iranian regime, right?It seems that the United States has very strict management in all aspects.🤣

[worldcoinauctions]

I'm not surprised, though creative wording may help you get by that. I recently listed a coin from Tunisia for sale, as I often do I included the name of the ruler of the country in the listing (Ahmad something, Bey of Tunisia). Well the listing would not post as it was flagged as Iran. I had to remove the name of the ruler and that (after a bit of trial and error) removed the flag. I guess anyone named Ahmad is Iranian. 

If I had Parthian coins to sell I would probably consider submitting to a real coin auction, might do better anyway, but perhaps you can find a workaround. Hard to say. In this world of vague or off kilter MOUs anything can happen.

[treasures_galore]

    You are right. There is no connection.  To begin with, the kingdom these coins were made for stretched from Egypt to Turkey to India to Greece.  It also included modern day Pakistan and Afghanistan.  If you use the logic in removing this coin because it has a "Persian" king on it, you must remove anything from Egypt, India, Greece, Turkey, etc because it was all Persian at one time....which they equate to Iranian.  Then the Persians Empire, after this coin was minted, ceased to exist as it was taken over by Alexander the Great and was part of the Macedonian Kingdom.  That would technically mean, by their logic, everyting Alexander the Great on eBay needs to be taken down too.  He actually minted coins in Iran that are not being taken down on eBay.  Hundreds of sellers have his coins on eBay.  It is just unfortunate how they do not think decisions through on how it negatively impacts sellers who are not breaking rules. eBay has cost me thousands of dollars with its mistakes that they refuse to allow to be appealed.  Thank you for your comment.

[treasures_galore]

    Thank you for your reply. I am saddened to hear that so many other people are being affected by this eBay decision. You are right, Tunisia has nothing to do with Iran.  They should not take a name like Ahmad and ban everything with that name as Iranian.  It is odd how eBay does not truly enforce this across the board. There are sellers with the coin you are referring to listed. Of course, there are sellers getting to sell the coin I cannot. There are sellers who get to sell the "Tribute Penny" as a Tribute Penny...but eBay will not allow me, even though, it does not break any actual eBay rules.  I appreciate the idea of leaving out a key word or two.  Listing the coin does not actually break eBay policy so it would technically be doing nothing wrong. It just makes it harder to find. Thank you for your thoughts.

[maxine*j]

Among other examples I might have given in my first post:  A seller had an autographed picture of the actor Cuba Gooding, Jr., removed because -- yep! -- of the embargo against goods from the country of Cuba.

Nearly all these take-downs are done by primitively-programmed primitive bots.  On those rare occasions when a human actually looks at something, that human advises against re-listing for one or both of these reasons:  That person is as ignorant as the bot.  That person knows the item will just be pulled again; and, after a few of removals, the seller can have his account restricted or suspended permanently.

It's a mess, and it is getting worse.  With something like 1.5 billion listings on any given day, it's obvious that each one cannot be screened by a knowledgeable human being but, still, it seems eBay could do better than it does.

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[worldcoinauctions]

Years ago I was selling the silver bullet shaped bullion here and got it taken down. The CS rep on the phone told me that it didn't matter if it was real ammunition or not, anything with the word bullet in it should be taken down. So I helped them out, I must have reported over 1000 items with the word bullet in them that night. Bras, zipper pulls, you name it.

By the next morning I had an email saying that on further review I was good to relist the items. I never restocked them because of the hassle.

Perhaps we need to help them out by reporting things with the letters i-r-a-n in them, or that come from parts of the middle east once ruled by..... What about Sassinian coins? For that matter Syria is embargoed, how about coins of the Severan dynasty in Rome? They came from Syria..... What we really need is crossover items in clothing and other catagories!

[treasures_galore]

    That is crazy about Cuba Gooding Jr. That falls into the category of basically rediculous. I can somewhat understand a misunderstaning of my Achaemenid/Persian coin, but there is no excuse for Cuba Gooding Jr.  I know it is hard to make a perfect system, but it seems they could design something in a way that they can add exceptions along the way. Thank you for this example too.  

[treasures_galore]

Worldcoinauctions, that is a very astute response to this. I appreciate what you had to say.  That goes back to a reply I made to someone else that since Alexander the Great took over the Persian empire, they need to take down everything Alexander the Great.  I, of course, don't think they should, but that would be by their own logic.  They also have over 21000 Persian rugs listed. How are those still up?  They make too much money on them to take down?  It is a curious situation and you brought up some great examples. Thank you.

[maxine*j]

It was crazy but no crazier than the Oman / Iran thing.  In fact, it is not as crazy.  I mean, okay, CUBA is CUBA.   But it takes a careless programmer to come up with the algorithm that results in a bot determining that OMAN is IRAN.

As for reporting actual violations, many years ago it did do some good, for sure.  But so far as I can determine, it no longer does and has not for the past six or seven years.  During that time, I've reported clear violations of the federal Indian Arts & Crafts Act and clear violations of provisions of the CITES treaties with no results.  I doubt that any human being ever even sees such reports now.  Bots rule.

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[treasures_galore]

    You have a point. Bots probably read the violation reports if anything or anyone does. I get nowhere talking to most of the customer service.  I tried talking to them 4 times about the coins not being from Iran.  Twice, when I cited the proof of my claim and read it, they said they could no longer help me and hung up.  The other two times I was said I could not appeal because a person made the decision to take my listing down. A person cannot be appealed they said. Only decisions by their software can. 

     I have turned in sellers of fake coins over and over again. Sellers selling coins that are so fake that a novice could tell...yet they still have buyers. Not a single one of these listings have been taken down. I wasn't the only person turning them in.  As a matter of fact, they have a good number of negatives for selling fake coins too and still nothing. It just makes no sense sometimes.  The person doing things right has trouble and the ones selling fakes get to rip people off without reprocussion. 

[maxine*j]

The thing about the CSRs at the overseas call centers is that they are poorly-trained, over-worked, under-paid, and have no authority to do anything, even if they understand what should be done. 

At the moment, one can get far better help through eBay for Business on Facebook, where there are U.S.- based, fairly knowledgeable reps -- but I expect that to change as more and more people become aware of it and use it. 

A seller just has to decide if he can find the ways to make it worth his while to sell on eBay, with all its faults and foibles, by focusing on what is rational, does work, and is beneficial to him.   (Just as he would decide about selling in another on-line marketplace, setting up his own website for sales, running a brick-and-mortar, using a consignor, selling at shows, whatever.)

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