eBay

tobybiko · ‎07-02-2023

eBay Concierge service is a premium service offered by invite-only. One of the benefits listed is:

Help managing negative feedback

(see https://www.ebay.com/help/account/changing-account-settings/ebay-concierge?id=4358)

How do they accomplish this? Well, I learned today that this is accomplished by allowing a seller to remove up to "10 negative feedback postings per quarter." Yes folks, that's up to 40 negative feedback reviews per year! Not based on anything improper in the feedback but simply as a "courtesy."

And here I thought eBay valued feedback - isn't peer review at the core of their business model? How confident should we be using their platform with the knowledge that sellers can remove the very feedback we as buyers rely on when deciding whether to purchase from a particular seller?

In my situation I purchased a car on eBay Motors. Attempts to resolve issues with the seller were unsuccessful and neither eBay nor eBay Motors would take any action. So I was left with leaving honest negative feedback as my last resort. Imagine my surprise when I learned my feedback was removed! And the seller has done this before. So buyers purchasing used cars on eBay Motors beware! The Seller rating means litterally nothing.

lamber9347 · ‎07-02-2023

Sorry but I disagree with your interpretation of feedback. Feedback should be used as a buyer's opinion only. It should not be used to "review" and warn other buyers because that weaponizes it. One person's bad experience doesn't mean others will feel the same. There are plenty of award-winning movies, that make millions at the box office, but personally I hated them. Opinions are unique and different for everyone. Also, there is a small pool of folks who qualify for the concierge service so this isn't something that just any seller can utilize. Caveat emptor applies to any online sale of any item. Best of luck to you....

tobybiko · ‎07-02-2023

Interesting perspective. So feedback that contains facts about a seller's misrepresentation are only opinion?

Your "opinion" about feedback flies in the face if eBay's own description:

Each time you buy or sell something, you have an opportunity to leave feedback about your experience. Feedback consists of a positive, negative, or neutral rating, along with a short comment. Feedback ratings and comments help buyers and sellers build their reputation on eBay. This information is available in each member's feedback profile, and helps eBay users buy and sell with confidence.

What is the point of allowing sellers to preserve a 100% rating despite numerous (up to 40 per year) negative reviews that are then later removed with no recourse? I'll wait.

stainlessenginecovers · ‎07-02-2023

Since you purchased a 'used' car, anything can go wrong with a used car and/or be undetectable to a seller and/or out of their control. Therefore, leaving negative feedback about it is usually only 'accusation with no proof' that the seller 'knew' that XYZ was wrong or that ABC was going to 'break' or 'quit working' etc.

Also, since 'vehicle purchases' are non-binding and a buyer is 100% responsible for making sure they inspect and know what they are getting and to then leave 'neg fb' attempting to 'hurt' a car dealers' business could be something not allowed.

It would greatly depend on what you stated, word for word and without knowing what you stated, it's hard to determine if the fb was legit in being removed.

Also, those with a 'concierge', especially in this category, must have many more positive transactions than negative.

Having 40 removed a year, for instance, out of 30,000 positives leans towards 'maybe that buyer just has 'above realistic' expectations?

mn467462 · ‎07-02-2023

@lamber9347 wrote:
Sorry but I disagree with your interpretation of feedback. Feedback should be used as a buyer's opinion only. It should not be used to "review" and warn other buyers because that weaponizes it.

Doesn't matter that you think. It doesn't matter how it should be used. What matters is how it is used. It is negatively weaponized against the seller. And that's the cold hard truth. The buyer is often in their feelings and very petty. And it completely destroys the seller's good reputation. The buyer can make any untrue claim they want, without any evidence whatsoever, and completely destroy that seller's good name and his family.

tobybiko · ‎07-02-2023

In this instance every eBay rep I spoke to (including someone from "Leadership") has acknowledged that my feedback did not violate any policies and was limited to factual information based on the seller's misrepresentation in the listing.

For instance "tires excellent" and yet failed inspection.

stainlessenginecovers · ‎07-02-2023

You didn't inspect the tires when you purchased?

What year was the car?

What did the date code on the tires reveal?

The CSR and the 'Leader' actually came to your house personally and looked at the tires?

There was some type of proof that the tires on the car that failed (by who?) were the tires that you received?

The CSR and the Leader were able to obtain that proof personally?

soh.maryl · ‎07-02-2023

The issue here that has not been fully addressed is this: Motor vehicle sales on eBay are unlike just about any other category on eBay. The buyer is supposed to either inspect the vehicle in person, or to hire someone qualified to do so for him. Upon inspection, if the buyer sees issues with the vehicle, he can simply walk away, no harm, no foul. So this car was not inspected by you or by your designated inspection service?

kathiec · ‎07-02-2023

@tobybiko wrote:
In this instance every eBay rep I spoke to (including someone from "Leadership") has acknowledged that my feedback did not violate any policies and was limited to factual information based on the seller's misrepresentation in the listing.

For instance "tires excellent" and yet failed inspection.

The as-is laws of most states as they relate to used vehicle sales wouldn't back you up on this. Those laws consider terms like 'excellent', 'runs great', 'cream puff', etc., to be purely subjective. If the seller had stated 'tires were replaced mm/yy ' and you could prove they weren't, that would be a different matter.

With all as-is purchases it's incumbent on the buyer to thoroughly inspect, or have their mechanic/agent inspect, the vehicle. Had you done that you would have discovered the issue with the tires. You obviously didn't. That's on you. EBay Motors is set up to abide by the laws governing vehicle sales. As such they gave you a mechanism to walk away from the purchase after inspecting the car. Their removing the neg likely had nothing to do with the Concierge program and everything to do with your failure to do so.

12345jamesstamps · ‎07-02-2023

The number of feedbacks that can be remover by a seller or eBay(together) is by how much they the seller sells and how many feedbacks they have per quarter. For a seller to have a negative feedback removed...the buyer might use words or wordage that is not allowed. If you call a seller names like: "thief, lier, mafia" and so on it can be removed. It's basically your word vs. the seller. I had someone use the word "fake" in a negative feedback and customer service removed it. It's how you word the feedback as to whether it can be removed or not. And after 30 days no one. can remove that negative feedback left.

Something "like shipment took longer than expected" would be OK.

vtsojourner · ‎07-03-2023

Silence is seldom a virtue

tobybiko · ‎07-03-2023

Not surprised to see the sellers all rushing to defend the policy. Here's some facts for you:

1. The Seller has 16 completed sales transactions since April 2023 - all vehicles.

2. Several of the sold items appear again so were clearly returned (two vehicles listed/sold 3 times; 1 vehicle listed/sold twice).

3. The Seller has a perfect rating with 100% positive feedback with 136 feedbacks - ALL as a buyer.

4. That's right - the seller has ZERO feedback as a Seller despite 23 total transactions.

Curious, no? Defend the policy all you want. The Seller has had at least one other negative feedback removed that did not violate the policy. All of your protestations that feedback can be abused is certainly true, however if you read my posts all eBay staff who have reviewed my feedback stated unequivocally that it violated no policies.

So I ask again. Should eBay allow Sellers to manipulate the Concierge program to disappear negative feedback that would serve to put a buyer on notice that a seller is not to be trusted?

eBay is all about reputation.

I posted to let buyers know that reputation can be and is in fact manipulated in this fashion because it was news to me. With policies in place to already have negative feedback removed that violates policy (which address many of your scenarios above), what is the purpose of allowing sellers to delete negative feedback WITHOUT CAUSE?

I'll give you one guess and I bet it has to do with cold hard cash in eBay's pockets.

kathiec · ‎07-03-2023

First off, I haven't sold on eBay in decades. So your assertion that we're all sellers is simply false. You apparently still don't understand how the rules of eBay Motors differ from the rest of the site. Transactions in eBay Motors aren't binding on either party. So a vehicle appearing for sale again doesn't necessarily equate to it being returned. It simply means that either the buyer or seller walked away before payment was made. That's an option you would have had if you had bothered to exercise your right to inspect the vehicle before making payment.

I'm also curious whether you have any proof the seller is part of the Concierge program or if this is simply an assumption on your part?

tobybiko · ‎07-03-2023

I didn't say you were all sellers and I do know how eBay Motors works thank you. I could go through all the details regarding inspection but that is not the point of my post which was specifically about the Concierge program allowing Sellers to remove negative feedback without cause.

I learned about the program from the eBay rep who stated he was with the Leadership group. They are investigating this particular seller for a pattern of having negative feedback removed and he said while he can't say one way or the other due to privacy concerns, it was possible this seller was a participant in the Concierge program.

And again - I stand by the proposition that most buyers on eBay assume that the feedback rating is an accurate representation of a seller's "reputation" and are not aware that negative feedback that violates no policy can be removed without cause.

If you are mainly a buyer I would think you might be interested to learn this. If you aren't - good for you. Not sure what dog you have in this fight except to deviate from the point of my post and explain how buying a car is different in condescending terms. So that's not really contributing to the discussion is it?

lovelycuratedcloset · ‎07-03-2023

You chose to buy from a seller with many sales and no seller feedback. You didn't do your proper due diligence prior to finalizing the sale. While it's truly cruddy of the seller to claim things like "excellent tires" when they failed inspection, ethics and legality are different things altogether.

I do question, though - did you just take the inspector at their word, or did you get a second opinion? Is it possible that they were just trying to sell you something you didn't need?

This is a perfect example of why it's never, ever a good idea to purchase any vehicle without having it inspected. If you're paying a significantly lower price than market value, though, this is a risk you may end up taking. We purchased an RV on auction a few years ago at 1/3 of market value. They said that it runs great. Turns out, it has a minor transmission sensor issue ("minor" for a diesel pusher RV is still a few thousand dollars,) the tires were absolutely dry-rotted through and through, some of the lights - including brake lights - didn't work, and there was some old water damage throughout. The interior needed a gut remodel to be attractive in any way.

I wasn't upset with the seller or the auction house. We bought it knowing that we could, at worst, part it out and recoup our money. In the end, we put about $7k into it and have an RV that would otherwise have cost us easily $25k more than we paid upfront. It's important to plan in those situations that you're likely going to need to do some repairs and replace some parts, since you're getting it for a smokin deal.