Suspicious selling practice? Let me know what you think.

[pskaudio]

Purchase an item B.I.N. for $130 plus shipping. Item arrives very well packed with no damage to the box. One of the parts stated working doesn't and some minor cosmetic damage not shown or mentioned in the listing.

I contact seller in a friendly manner before initiating a return since I could deal with the problems, but would not have paid the $174 including shipping if known.

Seller replies everything was fine before shipping and states it must have happened in transit. Immediately refunds my entire cost and opens a damage claim with the carrier.

It would be near impossible for the defective part and minor cosmetic damage to happen in transit without other more fragile parts breaking. I inform them of this, but they are so sure the carrier is at fault.

Carrier comes to pick up item and packaging next morning. I have not repackaged it yet, so they schedule another attempt today.

I repack it as close to the way it was and check my account page on the shipper's site to make sure I'll be there to hand it over. Information regarding the claim is also shown. No one from the shipping company contacted me about anything regarding claim, so I've provided none of the information they need to process it.

Seller claims value of item is $399 and has submitted 10 documents. Unfortunately, I am unable to see the submitted documents.

The listing identified the model of the item incorrectly. I knew this before buying, it was the reason I bought it. At the time I assumed seller didn't know what model it was, but now I'm not so sure.

I contacted the shipper regarding the claim because I don't want to be anywhere near something that could be questionable. Let the seller know (through eBay messages) and they reply remarking how the shipper likes to "negotiate down" on claims. Item is now in the possession of the carrier and I wonder if,  because of this time of year, they might just pay it out.

Does this seem a bit sketchy to you as well? Thanks for your input.

[soh.maryl]

You have been refunded in full, right? Nothing you've done is questionable.  

This is now between the seller and the shipping company.  You are not involved.  Not sure why you are worried about it.  

[pskaudio]

Just asking for some opinions and relating a situation that could have happened to others. When people unfairly work the system, it makes buying and selling here a bit more difficult. I'm not worried by the way.

[kathiec]

Yes, it seems the seller is trying to defraud the carrier. But it also seems that, since they will have the item, the carrier can quite easily determine that the seller's claim has incorrect information. If the carrier chooses not to do that, that's on them. If you've been refunded and turned over the package, your part in this is done.

[7606dennis]

My opinion is that the seller wasn't very wise in refunding you prior to receiving the item's return.  He should have asked you to open a return request and paid for the return shipping.  By refunding he has obviously decided he didn't want the item returned and have to pay the return shipping.

It appears that he chose to file a claim with the carrier and they came to collect the damaged shipment as part of their claim processing procedure.  Frankly, I don't understand why you feel you need to repackage it.  I would have just turned it over to them along with the original packaging materials.  Since you have been refunded the item is not yours and since a claim has been started by the seller, it is between him and the carrier.  

[pskaudio]

Issuing a refund outside the returns system does not revert ownership of an item to the seller. If I'm not mistaken. I've issued partial refunds and once a full refund to buyer (It was my mistake) and the items still belonged to them.

[7606dennis]

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@pskaudio wrote:

Issuing a refund outside the returns system does not revert ownership of an item to the seller. If I'm not mistaken. I've issued partial refunds and once a full refund to buyer (It was my mistake) and the items still belonged to them.

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I'm not certain that your statement is totally accurate.  However, if the seller files an insurance claim with the carrier, it is my understanding that the insurance carrier would become the owner of the property if they paid the claim. 

Of course, as part of the claim process the insurer usually wants to inspect the damage prior to deciding the claim.  In the past, if the buyer returned the item before the carrier could inspect it or the buyer refused to cooperate with the claim process, it created problems for the seller in seeking compensation for damaged shipments, while they were still required to refund the buyer regardless of the insurance company's decision.  It would appear to me that refunding the buyer and asking them to save and make available the item and packaging for inspection by the insurer would be reasonable.

[dogchow747]

The seller may be concerned that you are going to file a complaint with eBay, so they are doing everything to avoid getting into a complaint.

"Seller claims value of item is $399"

That may not work out well.

Caught in fraud, or caught in fraud ends up then same.

Have you been issued a refund?

It does sound iffy, If you feel uncomfortable, file a claim of not as described.

Do not send it to another address he sends you.

[kathiec]

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@7606dennis wrote:

My opinion is that the seller wasn't very wise in refunding you prior to receiving the item's return.  He should have asked you to open a return request and paid for the return shipping.  By refunding he has obviously decided he didn't want the item returned and have to pay the return shipping.

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If the item is reshipped it negates any insurance coverage from the carrier. So it seems not-too-bright for a seller to lose out on the possibility of a claim being paid to get back a broken item.

[7606dennis]

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@kathiec wrote:

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@7606dennis wrote:

My opinion is that the seller wasn't very wise in refunding you prior to receiving the item's return.  He should have asked you to open a return request and paid for the return shipping.  By refunding he has obviously decided he didn't want the item returned and have to pay the return shipping.

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If the item is reshipped it negates any insurance coverage from the carrier. So it seems not-too-bright for a seller to lose out on the possibility of a claim being paid to get back a broken item.

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I'm not following where the item is to be reshipped.  As I understood it, the seller refunded the buyer and filed a claim through the carriers insurance for the damaged shipment.  The carrier sent someone to pickup the damaged shipment not to return it to the seller but for inspection in regards to the insurance claim.  That would not negate the insurance claim as I understand the process.

Of course, I'm not sure to what the OP is referring to about it not being packaged and ready to ship when they came to pick it up.  I'm also not sure of the part about how much was paid by the OP and how much the seller filed the claim for.  That I believe is something that the seller and the insurer would work out.

It has, to the best of knowledge, always been the seller's responsibility to refund the buyer for an item damaged in transit regardless of whether the seller was compensated for the loss by insurance or not.  In addition, I don't believe that the seller is permitted to delay the refund to the buyer while awaiting a decision from the insurance company.  Nor could the seller refuse to refund the buyer if the insurance company denied the claim or if the buyer refused to cooperate in the claim process.  Thus I see no problem with the seller refunding the buyer while the claim process is in progress.  Is there some change or something that I'm overlooking in this scenario? 

[pskaudio]

The first time they came to pick it up I had not packed it back up. Told by the carrier to repack the item as was  when shipped to me. Picked up today by carrier.

The item sold for $130, the shipping cost was $44. Sorry I didn't make that clear.

[kathiec]

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@7606dennis wrote:

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@kathiec wrote:

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@7606dennis wrote:

My opinion is that the seller wasn't very wise in refunding you prior to receiving the item's return.  He should have asked you to open a return request and paid for the return shipping.  By refunding he has obviously decided he didn't want the item returned and have to pay the return shipping.

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If the item is reshipped it negates any insurance coverage from the carrier. So it seems not-too-bright for a seller to lose out on the possibility of a claim being paid to get back a broken item.

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I'm not following where the item is to be reshipped.  As I understood it, the seller refunded the buyer and filed a claim through the carriers insurance for the damaged shipment.  The carrier sent someone to pickup the damaged shipment not to return it to the seller but for inspection in regards to the insurance claim.  That would not negate the insurance claim as I understand the process.

Of course, I'm not sure to what the OP is referring to about it not being packaged and ready to ship when they came to pick it up.  I'm also not sure of the part about how much was paid by the OP and how much the seller filed the claim for.  That I believe is something that the seller and the insurer would work out.

It has, to the best of knowledge, always been the seller's responsibility to refund the buyer for an item damaged in transit regardless of whether the seller was compensated for the loss by insurance or not.  In addition, I don't believe that the seller is permitted to delay the refund to the buyer while awaiting a decision from the insurance company.  Nor could the seller refuse to refund the buyer if the insurance company denied the claim or if the buyer refused to cooperate in the claim process.  Thus I see no problem with the seller refunding the buyer while the claim process is in progress.  Is there some change or something that I'm overlooking in this scenario? 

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I was responding to your suggestion: "My opinion is that the seller wasn't very wise in refunding you prior to receiving the item's return. He should have asked you to open a return request and paid for the return shipping. By refunding he has obviously decided he didn't want the item returned and have to pay the return shipping."  So since you were actually the one who suggested it be reshipped I'm not sure why you're not following it.

[7606dennis]

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@kathiec wrote:

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@7606dennis wrote:

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@kathiec wrote:

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@7606dennis wrote:

My opinion is that the seller wasn't very wise in refunding you prior to receiving the item's return.  He should have asked you to open a return request and paid for the return shipping.  By refunding he has obviously decided he didn't want the item returned and have to pay the return shipping.

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If the item is reshipped it negates any insurance coverage from the carrier. So it seems not-too-bright for a seller to lose out on the possibility of a claim being paid to get back a broken item.

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I'm not following where the item is to be reshipped.  As I understood it, the seller refunded the buyer and filed a claim through the carriers insurance for the damaged shipment.  The carrier sent someone to pickup the damaged shipment not to return it to the seller but for inspection in regards to the insurance claim.  That would not negate the insurance claim as I understand the process.

Of course, I'm not sure to what the OP is referring to about it not being packaged and ready to ship when they came to pick it up.  I'm also not sure of the part about how much was paid by the OP and how much the seller filed the claim for.  That I believe is something that the seller and the insurer would work out.

It has, to the best of knowledge, always been the seller's responsibility to refund the buyer for an item damaged in transit regardless of whether the seller was compensated for the loss by insurance or not.  In addition, I don't believe that the seller is permitted to delay the refund to the buyer while awaiting a decision from the insurance company.  Nor could the seller refuse to refund the buyer if the insurance company denied the claim or if the buyer refused to cooperate in the claim process.  Thus I see no problem with the seller refunding the buyer while the claim process is in progress.  Is there some change or something that I'm overlooking in this scenario? 

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I was responding to your suggestion: "My opinion is that the seller wasn't very wise in refunding you prior to receiving the item's return. He should have asked you to open a return request and paid for the return shipping. By refunding he has obviously decided he didn't want the item returned and have to pay the return shipping."  So since you were actually the one who suggested it be reshipped I'm not sure why you're not following it.

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Okay!  I get it now.  Yes, I probably jumped the gun on that since it appears that the seller is counting on getting his money back from the claim.  Ordinarily, I wouldn't recommend that a seller refund prior to receiving his merchandise back, but I can see why he did it in this case.  Hopefully, he the insurer will honor the claim and all will end well.

Since I don't know the amount of insurance the seller placed on the parcel when shipped it is impossible to say exactly how much he will get if the claim is paid.  I'm pretty sure that the insurer will try to get off with paying the least amount that they can though.

[downunder-61]

Nothing to add, but I love your signature......

[pskaudio]

The seller declared the value of the item at $399 according to the claim details on the shipper's site. Again, item sold here for $130 plus shipping of $44.

As a seller. I never declare a higher value than the selling price. It's one of those risks we all take selling here if an item gets damaged or lost during shipping.