Repoductions/Fakes Antiques and Collectibles on Ebay

[frray31]

I have dealt in Antiques and Collectibles in one form or another for over 30 years+ including Flea Markets and owning my own Shop and like ALL Dealers I still get stung by a bad buy, it is a constant learning experience. My concern is the rabidly growing amount of Repo's and just all out fakes that are now showing up on eBay, many are either naively represented by Sellers who just doesn't known the difference, while many others knowingly sells a fake as being real. It has now reached a point where I will no longer buy anything on eBay, not even from long term Members with excellent feed back. My advice to anyone who still buys Antiques and Collectibles on line are:  consider it as being a repo or fake until you can prove to yourself otherwise, in the mean time look at all the photo's closely,  contact the buyer and ask questions about the item you are interested in, or for other photo's of it if need. Any worthy Seller will have no problems furnishing these to you and if not...move on!. 

[ed8108]

With respect to collectibles & antiques, I learned more than 10 years ago from several dealers that they considered ebay as the best place to dump items that have various problems.

[lightlily_arts]

I have collected Nippon porcelain for many years.  The number of reproductions have increased over the years.  eBay does not take down these listings even when they are reported so many buyers don't know that they are purchasing fakes.  The wildflower design is one of the most common Nippon  reproductions on eBay.  I can tell by the way the sellers describe them that they don't even understand what the term Nippon means.  As an example the seller of this vanity set stated that the brand was "Made by Nippon".   If you see porcelain with this design they are all fakes.

[7606dennis]

There are many items that were reproduced in later periods that have substantial value and are highly collectible themselves.  So I have no real issue with them provided that the the seller is not trying to pass the off as something they are not.  Unfortunately,  there are many sellers that can't tell the difference.  Frankly, there are many excellent reproductions of the old masters that are quite good and much more affordable than the originals.

Of course, the sale of reproductions on eBay presents a major problem since many eBay sellers are not experts, nor do they employ experts  qualified to authenticate things.  Thus it is difficult for eBay to police such items.  Frankly, I'd be extremely skeptical if I saw a listing purporting to be newly discovered Rembrandt or Rubens.

Of course, fake and/or counterfeit are not quite the same as works made as reproductions and marketed as such.

[mudshark61369]

@frray31,

  "I have dealt in Antiques and Collectibles in one form or another for over 30 years+ including Flea Markets and owning my own Shop and like ALL Dealers I still get stung by a bad buy, it is a constant learning experience".

The underlined statement says it all. There are enough sites and blogs online these days, dedicated to almost every type of collectible category, that if a person who collects vintage, antique or collectible items keeps learning, they should be able to find out if items have been or are being reproduced and by whom. 

  "My advice to anyone who still buys Antiques and Collectibles on line are:  consider it as being a repo or fake until you can prove to yourself otherwise, in the mean time look at all the photo's closely,  contact the buyer and ask questions about the item you are interested in, or for other photo's of it if need. Any worthy Seller will have no problems furnishing these to you and if not...move on!"

You left out read descriptions carefully.  Most knowledgeable sellers will share what they know about an item in the description.  We know we are bucking the problems caused by inexperienced sellers and reproductions, so those who know how to prove their item is the real McCoy will usually add that info to their listings. Though it should be mentioned that some great bargains can be found from sellers who do not know what they have and do not describe or photograph them well.

Painting all ebay sellers of vintage, antique and collectible items with the same brush is irresponsible.  There are many good longtime sellers on this site who do know what they are selling, and enough knowledgeable buyers who if they received repro, fake or counterfeited items, would say so in their feedback especially when it comes to collectible items. 

[mudshark61369]

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@ed8108 wrote:

With respect to collectibles & antiques, I learned more than 10 years ago from several dealers that they considered ebay as the best place to dump items that have various problems.

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@ed8108,

Many of us became dealers because it was a way of gaining access to things we collect. Especially, back in the days before the advent of the internet when one didn't always have the time or money to travel to the better auctions. We could sell at various shows within a given area on weekends, and met those also interested in the same things. 

Because of those constrictions, many of us picked up lesser quality items for collections wherever and whenever we could find them. They may not have as great a value as ones in better condition, but they do still have some value. As long as there are people who are starting their own collections who don't have the money to buy the C10 items, there will be a market for the lesser condition pieces, whether they be sold on ebay or at live events. 

[deech21]

antique dealers with nice pieces have left Ebay to sell on boutique auctions,where they get better buyers.

Putting a nice piece of antique next to all the cheap repros and counterfeit and fakes is not going to  help. 

[frray31]

Excuse me!!!.... just when and how did I paint ALL eBay sellers with the same brush????. Stop trying to put words in my mouth just to satisfy your ego. There are plenty of honest eBay sellers, I am one of them who takes pride in being honest and truthful about the merchandise I sell, as I always have been. My point with my post that seems to have gone over your head is that there is a serious increase in Repo's and Fakes being sold on eBay by good and bad Sellers and to beware. As for all the Web sites and blogs yes that is true but unfortunately repo's and fakes are getting better and more convincing that can even fool experience buyers. As stated before, ask questions, look at pictures and yes "read the description". Finally, It is my choice to no longer trust eBay when buying what I collect "Miniature Oil/Fluid Lamps", Repo's and fakes have all but ruined the market on eBay and I am sure I am not the only Buyer who feels this way.

EVIL BEGETS EVIL AND SO IT BEGINS, ONE'S MANS PLEASURES ARE OTHER MENS SINS.

[frray31]

Thank you for you response and yes I have seen a lot of fake Nippon in my life including that Pattern. It is aggravating that eBay will not at least address this issue though I am not sure what could be done about other than to ban Sellers but then what is to stop them from making a new account. It is time for good eBay sellers to step up to the plate in their descriptions and insurance that what they are selling is what they claim it to be and willing to take it back if it's not. 

Satisfaction Guaranteed should mean just that!!. Me 

[frray31]

Yes, there are a lot of buyers who don't care if it is a repo/fake or if it is damaged or not and that is fine, but to knowingly misrepresent as real/period item is getting is getting out of hand on eBay, and I do understand that many Sellers are on eBay just to make a little extra money but have none or very little knowledge of Antiques/Collectibles and only go by what they see on eBay or Web sites to describe and price their items, but there are still a lot of Sellers who have been doing this for years who should know better.

[lightlily_arts]

You understand that there is a lot of this fake Nippon on eBay.  This pattern isn't even Nippon. If they would at least state their products were Nippon style or reproductions, but they don't.  Now I know some sellers simply don't understand what Nippon means, but the information is readily available on the web and in the collector's encyclopedias. Same goes for antique European porcelain. What I don't understand is why eBay allows these fakes  to be sold even when they are reported.

[later_36]

You are right about fakes and repos.  I collect a specific brand of old soda signs, thermometers, wall openers, etc. I've bought a couple "old vintage"  porcelain wall mounted soda bottle openers recently.  I started getting suspicious when I noticed quite a few of the sights seemed to be run by the same individual or someone connected, and had a lot of the same fairly rare items.  I had the openers evaluated by several antique dealers.  Same response from all, they were repos.  So I did more research, found the seller was related to many sites, one I'd bought from 1 1/2 yrs previous.  These sites all sell the same items, old soda signs, porcelain license plate holders, old porcelain and tin signs.  But they always seem to have a lot of them.  And the sites are constantly changing their ID name.  I don't know how Ebay can say a seller has (example) 15 yrs with Ebay when they've changed their ID for that site 9 times.  Specifically, I've been told now by many antique experts that the porcelain wall mounted bottle openers were almost impossible to find over ten years ago.  But, starting about 8 years ago, all of the sudden there are all kinds of them out there.  I've contact Ebay but they make it very difficult to report suspected fraud.  And if you report it, they say because of privacy issues they will never let you know the outcome.    So you never know whether to take it to the next level of reporting it to law enforcement.  They don't seem to want to police the problem, is it because then they won't make money off all the fake items?  My advice for old soda items, look at the sellers reviews, then click on ID history.  If they've changed their name more than once, I'd be highly suspicious.  And if a seller constantly has those hard to find old soda items, where are they all coming from?

       Burned by fakes

[ed8108]

Unfortunately Manny buyers do not possess the expertise to discern the well made fake, and will leave glowing praise for their seller.

Some buyers may just simply take the word of a seller that a particular item is what the seller claims it to be.

[later_36]

You nailed it.  I am a collector but in no way an antique sign expert.  Turns out I'd bought 4 items from the same guy over a 1 1/2 yr period, gave very positive feedback, not realizing is was the same person because they were all from different site names with different listed locations. Never thought to check if they were fake. Only after I started noticing some suspicious rare listings that I decided to have 2 of the items checked.  And they were fake.  Went back and checked records and found at least two of the items which were from different sites came from the same shipping address.  Then I checked PayPal.  Same last name on all the items from 4 different sites.  Guy has a consistent pattern to avoid people noticing.  He lists about 5-14 items on a site, all at the same time, for the same number of days, 5-7, and all end within minutes of each other.  Then that site has no items for some time and he moves items on to his next site.  That way he spreads his fairly "rare" items over multiple sites, over different periods of time and frequently changes the ID so he doesn't draw suspicion.  Again, my recommendation, check a guys ID history, and check the PayPal name if you've bought several items from someone you wonder about.