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Getting UPS to cooperate in case of a tracking scam

I'm a victim of the fake-tracking number scam as detailed/tracked here by ittybitnot.

 

I have been trying to get UPS to confirm, in writing, that the tracking number I was provided was for somebody else's package entirely. I managed to get both a local dispatcher and UPS support to confirm this to me verbally, and the former even specified who the actual sender was (Amazon) as well as the recipient's address (not me, someone a few blocks away).  But they would not put this in writing or in an email.  The dispatcher directed me to national UPS customer support, and national support first said that (a) eBay would have to contact them (which of course they do not appear to ever bother to do) before settling on (b) directing me to fill in a form alleging fraud via their website, here.

This I have done, but (a) this department, to my knowledge, doesn't actually deal with this kind of thing, but fraud related to UPS accounts (b) even in such cases, testimonials online appear to be that people can wait weeks or months for a response, if they even get one at all.

 

So, does anybody know how to get UPS to cooperate? As it happens the very same seller has pulled this scam on another buyer, with this very same product, except their fake tracking number came from FedEx, and they have gotten it resolved in their favor by getting an "Ftrack" document from them and submitting it to PayPal (not to eBay). I know this because they left the seller negative feedback today to this effect,  which I'm assuming they wouldn't have done if things weren't already resolved in their favor. Based on that, I took a screenshot of their feedback page as it exists right now, and fired off as detailed a message as I could to the eBay for Business Facebook page. In my specific case, I at least have this plus the fact that the package wasn't just left on a doorstep, but was signed for by someone who is a total stranger to me.

That said, I suspect this won't be enough for them, even with the negative feedback. I only sent my message to them about an hour and a half ago, and if they are in fact US-based, that's too late in the day to expect to receive any response before tomorrow, so there's still hope, but that said, if anybody has any advice as to how to get somebody at UPS to issue a statement saying the package was not sent to my address, that would be incredibly helpful.

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Getting UPS to cooperate in case of a tracking scam


@just.eli wrote:

I managed to get both a local dispatcher and UPS support to confirm this to me verbally, and the former even specified who the actual sender was (Amazon) as well as the recipient's address (not me, someone a few blocks away). 

 

But they would not put this in writing or in an email. 

In my case, eBay refused to look at my evidence because it passed through my hands, where it can be altered before I forward it to eBay. I protested that they can call the phone number for the person named on the document, but eBay said that they won't call anyone.

 

In the end I started a return request intending to return exactly what I received together with that document, but the seller quickly issued a refund to close the return.

Message 2 of 20
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Getting UPS to cooperate in case of a tracking scam

@just.eli,

 

The reply ittybitnot posted in that link is pretty god advice but not as complete as what I have written in the link below.  When you open it, if it does not go directly to the Best Answer, click on the Go to Best Answer button at the top of the page. 

https://community.ebay.com/t5/Buying/Fake-Tracking-information/m-p/34266951#M475809

 

Dealing with UPS and FedEx, is more difficult than dealing with the USPS in these matters because they are private companies, and their privacy policies are stricter.  So you have to be careful only to ask for general information not exact addresses or package information.

 

"....they have gotten it resolved in their favor by getting an "Ftrack" document from them and submitting it to PayPal (not to eBay). I know this because they left the seller negative feedback today to this effect,  which I'm assuming they wouldn't have done if things weren't already resolved in their favor. Based on that, I took a screenshot of their feedback page as it exists right now, and fired off as detailed a message as I could to the eBay for Business Facebook page".

 

A)  eBay will not accept emails forwarded to them, not addressed directly to them from a shipper, because emails can be faked or altered.

 

B)  Posting the screen shot of the feedback to your Facebook message will not help you either. If the scammer knows what they are doing, and most scammers do, they can get the feedback removed, because it violates ebay's feedback policy about mentioning filing disputes through ebay, PayPal, or other entities, to get a refund or resolution.  If they did file and Lose a dispute through ebay, that too qualifies it for removal.

 

If you check a seller's feedback profile page before buying from them and see a comment(s) saying a package was delivered to a different address or zip code. It was allowed to remain, because that person never filed a dispute through ebay.

 

Hopefully, you will do what I wrote and can post your issue on ebay's Facebook page again, and get a refund.

 

 

"THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FOOLPROOF, BECAUSE FOOLS ARE SO DARNED INGENIOUS!" (unknown)
Message 3 of 20
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Getting UPS to cooperate in case of a tracking scam

So you have to be careful only to ask for general information not exact addresses or package information.”

 

As I said in my initial post, I did precisely that, and they verbally confirmed that the package was not mine, twice. When I asked the service reps to put this in writing, they balked, and the second one directed me to the fraud webform. 


eBay will not accept emails forwarded to them, not addressed directly to them from a shipper, because emails can be faked or altered.”

 

In the case I mentioned, presumably an Ftrack document is not a mere email.

 

If you check a seller's feedback profile page before buying from them and see a comment(s) saying a package was delivered to a different address or zip code. It was allowed to remain, because that person never filed a dispute through ebay.”


Yes, the person in question filed their dispute through PayPal, and made no mention of doing so through eBay. To reiterate, this feedback only showed up yesterday. It is still up as of now. Prior to buying, the guy had some feedback as a seller including one positive feedback on the very listing I was scammed from—I suppose from another compromised or straw account. 

 

The only bits of new-ish information in your link is to go to an actual UPS or FedEx location, to try to get an email statement from a rep prior to showing up—not being able to get this out of them was part of my question; they are largely uncooperative—and to make sure to request a statement on corporate letterhead that is signed and dated (I figured it would come to this, but appreciate the clarification). 

 

Unfortunately the vast majority of UPS Stores are clueless franchisees that have no authority or familiarity with issues like this; I found this out by showing up at one before even trying to contact UPS by phone. A guy on the line heard my situation, and that’s how I managed to get the number of a local dispatch person to begin with. Which UPS Stores are not franchisees is not, to my knowledge, publicly listed anywhere.

 

There are sometimes Customer Service Centers at their actual hubs, so if nobody had any idea how to get phone reps to cooperate—and it doesn’t seem like anybody does—my plan was to try to get to one, though this is not trivial for me. I am not sure it’s worth trying to coax an email out of the UPS reps before showing up, especially with no strategy to do so (I have to emphasize, again, that I did not ask for anybody’s personal information, only for confirmation that the package was not sent to my address, and twice they refused to do this in writing, even in an email). The only reason I could see to do this is to speed up the process a little—unless such clerks don’t have access to the same, more complete information that the reps do. 

One more thing—the package weight of the scam package is within the ballpark of what my item should be. The dimensions of packages aren’t publicly listed, as far as I know, so I can try to get them to check that as well, though once they find it was addressed to somebody else at a different address, if they still raise objections on this score…well, I’d be livid. (Well, more than I already am.) 

 

Message 4 of 20
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Getting UPS to cooperate in case of a tracking scam

@just.eli,

 

I have never heard of an Ftrack document, where did it come from? If it had to be printed from an online source it wouldn't be acceptable by ebay.  One of the "newish" things not mentioned by you, is to bring a copy of the order details or a portable device to show the clerk the address and tracking number for the order with you to a store, so they could compare it. Bringing the email is to show that some one at UPS already admitted the difference, but also so you can say ebay will not accept emails or you wouldn't need to be there.

 

Right off the Bat, I did say UPS & FedEx can be difficult to deal with.  If you plan on going back to a UPS store maybe call in advance and see when its owner/manager will be there. Maybe they will be more helpful.

"THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FOOLPROOF, BECAUSE FOOLS ARE SO DARNED INGENIOUS!" (unknown)
Message 5 of 20
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Getting UPS to cooperate in case of a tracking scam

You have to keep calling.  Each call gets a different rep and in time one will help.  They sent me an e mail with the ship to address of where it went.   You can also contact your credit card company if that is how you paid.  They can get the info if you can't.

Message 6 of 20
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Getting UPS to cooperate in case of a tracking scam

Mmm, but that the fact that they’re difficult to deal with is precisely why I’m here asking questions. Seems like the main answer, besides being as prepared as you can, is to be persistent, and if one rep turns you down, to try to get another. There doesn’t appear to be a script beyond ‘don’t ask for personal info’, which, yeah, obviously.

I’m not particularly interested in debating the merits (or not) of an Ftrack document, or whether eBay would accept such a thing—really, it’s not relevant to my case, and even if I end up going the PayPal route, after exhausting the eBay one, UPS is not Fedex. I mentioned it here mainly to elaborate on the feedback that I screenshotted, not to provide advice or anything. 

 

Otherwise, I’m not convinced franchisees are helpful here, manager or no. I was prepared with all of the information you mention here, other than an email from UPS in my favor, when I showed up the other day, which is why I didn’t specify that part as news to me.  (In your defense, I didn’t mention that I already tried talking the store route, mainly because it went nowhere.) All that said, I will absolutely try to take the steps you laid out in an actual corporate-operated location.

Message 7 of 20
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Getting UPS to cooperate in case of a tracking scam

This kind of persistence seems to be what  I need right now, I guess. Will report back when there’s anything to report. 

Message 8 of 20
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Getting UPS to cooperate in case of a tracking scam

Welp, my initial contact with eBay last night resulted in them beginning a ‘not delivered’ case, before actually telling me they would do anything of the sort. I’m afraid that if I manually close the case before it can proceed, it might work out against me in the long run (it’s been open for a couple of hours or so). The rep did mention that he thought I had enough compelling evidence but emphasized that there are no guarantees with appeals, and did not attempt to clarify my responsibilities here. I’m still upset about it, even if he meant well. Am beginning to lose hope, but really, I would hate to let any of them (the scammer, eBay, or UPS) just get away with this.

ED: now elaborating along the lines that @mudshark61369 suggested. Really I wish I were just told this without having the process start before telling me. I guess that’s policy, but I didn’t expect it, would not have chanced contacting them if I thought it was a possiblity 😞 

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Getting UPS to cooperate in case of a tracking scam

If they opened an INR, don't close it, wait and see what happens.

If you have a local UPS center, not a UPS store, visit it and see if they can help.

Have a great day
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Getting UPS to cooperate in case of a tracking scam


@just.eli wrote:

Otherwise, I’m not convinced franchisees are helpful here, manager or no. I was prepared with all of the information you mention here, other than an email from UPS in my favor, when I showed up the other day, which is why I didn’t specify that part as news to me.  (In your defense, I didn’t mention that I already tried talking the store route, mainly because it went nowhere.) All that said, I will absolutely try to take the steps you laid out in an actual corporate-operated location.


The several of us are plainly disingenuous @just.eli sending you on a fool's errand. UPS has already fulfilled its obligation, paid to deliver the package from the sender to the directed recipient. In their view, you somehow were given that tracking number that's none of your business.

 

You are not their customer, offer no payment, plus disrupting and distracting their operations. In fact, your requests are actually causing their employees to violate policy, and putting them in a dangerous position.

 

As mentioned, even if you get a piece of paper from them, it carries no weight because you could have fabricated it, or modified it to say anything before you scan it or take a photo of it.

 

If you look, there are other solutions discussed on these boards that will get your money back from the seller/scammer as should result after a scam, rather than eBay paying out-of-pocket for your refund.

Message 11 of 20
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Getting UPS to cooperate in case of a tracking scam

I’m not asking them to disclose anybody’s private information, and I resent both the implication that I am ‘causing’ anybody to do anything untoward or acting entitled—**bleep**, I’m the victim of a scam here—as well as the idea that everyone else that’s responded to me until now is being anything but earnest and serious in their replies. 

No, what people said was that an email wouldn’t work. Not that they dismiss even documents on letterhead out of hand as ipso facto forged. The eBay rep has since recommended the same, for the record, and if they were lying to me, or giving me false hope, that’s on them. 

The only other ‘solution’ offered on these boards basically gets the scammer to have to return your money, but otherwise allows them to continue scamming people freely under their current username. I’m not really OK with that. If you had something else in mind, I’d appreciate it if you said so explicitly, instead of being cryptic. 

As for consideration towards eBay, given it is their policy of allowing sellers to enter arbitrary tracking numbers that put me in this situation in the first place, I’m not particularly keen. This scam has been going on for years—at least since 2020, and most likely, earlier—and could be wholly avoided either by insisting that sellers buy labels within their system or by insisting sellers submit a photograph of the package a label matching both the tracking number and the user’s address prior to conveying the package to the carrier. I’m also not sure why they wouldn’t be within their rights to revert the transaction rather than having to cover for the seller, once it’s been found that they violate policy. 

Message 12 of 20
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Getting UPS to cooperate in case of a tracking scam

@just.eli,

 

I see that you have mentioned contact with ebay reps a few times since my last reply. Are you going through the process of getting call backs, or did you look up an ebay customer service number online? 

 

If you did get a call back or used the Chat option, the rep(s) you dealt with may not know how to deal with this issue, since it is not covered in the playbook they read from.  Them opening an INR dispute will get you nowhere.  Hopefully, if they do that it will show up in your My ebay summary page, so if you do get a letter from UPS you can attach it to an Appeal, which you should win.

 

If you called a number you looked up online, you never spoke to a real ebay rep, not even one of their 3rd party call/chat center ones.

"THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FOOLPROOF, BECAUSE FOOLS ARE SO DARNED INGENIOUS!" (unknown)
Message 13 of 20
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Getting UPS to cooperate in case of a tracking scam

Hi @just.eli 

 

I had your problem with 5 separate orders about 2 years ago.   I didn’t have much difficulty getting either FedEx or UPS to attach a statement to an email that showed  my tracking number was associated with a different name and address than mine.  [I had to pick up the statement from USPS.]

I phoned UPS (800-742-5877) and spoke with their Fraud Department, who was familiar with the ‘Fake tracking number scam’.  [It wasn’t as well known back then.]

I understand that people are having more trouble lately getting statements from UPS and FedEx … but I don’t know if they’re contacting their local offices or what.

 

I would try phoning UPS and ask to be connected to their Fraud Department.  If you have difficulty dealing with eBay after providing a statement as evidence … then deal directly with the Fraud Department of your credit card company.  Good luck!

Message 14 of 20
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Getting UPS to cooperate in case of a tracking scam

Yeah as I said in my original post at the very top of the thread, I contacted the eBay for Business page, just like everybody said to. They didn’t reply to me until the next day, after your replies here. They’re the ones that began the INR, which they did without my knowledge or consent, I’m afraid—they only informed me after they had already opened it. 
Today will likely be difficult but I will try to get to UPS tomorrow. As it stands, the case has been open for about a day with no sign of action by either eBay or the seller. I wonder if they’re trying to run out the clock a little bit by not responding quickly, or what…

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