Ebay's Authentication Failure: why I would never buy another luxury watch on ebay.

[greencheekvintage]

Over the past year I've purchased ~$20,000 in fine watches on ebay.

I'll never buy another watch on ebay; their Authentication Department OPEN watches, potentially voiding warranties, and the inspection caused damage that resulted in a $750 service bill.

I purchased a new, under warranty pre-owned Grand Seiko GMT SBGJ230 for over $5000 from a very reputable long-time seller.  Ebay now requires ALL such watches to be sent from the seller to Ebay's Authentication Services before delivery to the buyer, allegedly to ensure the watch is as described.  Here's the problem, as acknowledged by the seller, who is a very reputable and established retail jeweler and watch dealer in Maryland:

Ebay's Authentication Center OPENS the watches.  They claim this is necessary to ensure authenticity, but for one thing, it may void the manufacturers' warranty on new watches.  Here's what happened to me: about a month after I received the watch, apparently in mint condition as described by the seller, I noticed water behind the crystal.  This watch is supposed to be water resistant to 600 feet.  All I did was enter a steamy bathroom. I immediately took the watch to a widely respected certified watchmaker in my area, and he said the watch should be opened and dried quickly before corrosion could start.  I left him the watch. 

He contacted me with pictures showing a serious problem: the pressure gasket had not been properly seated by whoever had last opened the watch; it was partially out of place, and deformed from being forced as the watch was re-closed.  This resulted in a failure of the water resistance.  

The seller has records that the watch passed the pressure test before mailing to ebay's authentication dept.

My repair person has records of the pressure resistance test passed AFTER the repair. 

Ebay has so far said that since the issue became apparent after 30 days, they can not accommodate me.  Their opening of the watch may not only have damaged the gasket, since the watch left the seller's hands properly pressure tested, but the fact that they opened the watch may have voided my warranty. 

The seller wrote to me that he finds the fact that ebay opens watches "appalling" especially since it may void the warranty, but that ebay's Authentication service benefits sellers, and he is unwilling to be responsible for my damages.  He said the authentication department has "saved" him a couple times when seller try to return watches with new damage, missing gold links, etc.  So, he will keep using the platform even though he has feared that something like this would happen.

I have my case in review by ebay supervisors, and will provide updates here and on the multiple active watch forums I frequent.  Meanwhile, I advise all of you to avoid purchasing watches except DIRECTLY from the seller, not an intermediary.

[momdadsstash]

Sounds like it's time for you to file a charge with your credit card company.

When you say " Meanwhile, I advise all of you to avoid purchasing watches except DIRECTLY from the seller, not an intermediary."...is here any way to avoid   the authentication service on eBay?

[mudshark61369]

@greencheekvintage,

    "This watch is supposed to be water resistant to 600 feet.  All I did was enter a steamy bathroom".

A watch being water resistant, does not prevent it from getting condensation inside of it, when you go through rapid environmental changes.  Condensation builds from the inside out, if you go from a cool environment to a warm moist one.  I had that happen years ago when I bought my first Dive watch.

 "I purchased a new, under warranty pre-owned Grand Seiko".

Manufacturer's warranties may be void if you buy an item from a seller who is not a manufacturer's authorized dealer of the product, Their warranties also may not be transferable, if it was registered by the first owner. 

Because the watch was pre-owned, you cannot say for sure if the previous owner opened the watch or had an unauthorized repair person open it, to maybe replace the battery. 

  "Ebay's Authentication Center OPENS the watches.  They claim this is necessary to ensure authenticity, but for one thing, it may void the manufacturers' warranty on new watches".

I cannot believe ebay's authentication service people would be allowed to open any waterproof watch, especially one that is waterproof to 182.88 meters (600ft.)  They are trained to look for cosmetic indications that a watch is not authentic, not to open them up.  eBay's legal department certainly would not allow that knowing a watch could be damaged if opened by an unauthorized person.

"The seller has records that the watch passed the pressure test before mailing to ebay's authentication dept.  My repair person has records of the pressure resistance test passed AFTER the repair". 

Why would the seller send an almost new watch out for pressure testing. If they pressure tested it on their own how do you know if it was done properly.

  "Ebay has so far said that since the issue became apparent after 30 days, they can not accommodate me".

eBay's Money Back Guarantee is only good for up to 30 days from the tracking showing Delivered or from the last estimated delivery date, if tracking was not used.  Again, because the watch was pre-owned, proving when the damage occurred would be difficult.

[ms.rodriguez*]

What is it that you want?  To return the watch?  To get the service fee back?  Personally,  I would never buy an expensive item online anywhere.  Goodluck.

[greencheekvintage]

I believe ebay does technically require the seller to use Authentication Services.  I think this is crazy, and that buyers should simply be allowed to obtain their own authentication from a reputable local watchmaker upon receipt.  I do understand the challenge for sellers, who rely on AS as an intermediary so that dubious buyers don't return damaged-after-purchase items, or remove a couple gold links from the bracelet, etc.  I'm not sure of the solution.  Perhaps shipping directly from one certified watchmaker to another, who would then provide local "testing on receipt" before verifying authenticity and condition, and releasing to the buyer?

[simba6]

Remember, it's water resistant not water proof.   There is a reason they use the word "resistant".  

The problem is how can they know what is inside without looking? 

[greencheekvintage]

I feel your reply is uninformed, and incorrect on many fronts.

The seller, an experienced jeweler and watchmaker, with an active relationship with ebay's watch department, specifically stated that Authentication Services told him they open the watches; he said he was, and I quote, "appalled" to learn this.  Ebay also confirmed this to me just now in a phone call, that their contracted inspection provider DOES open the watch.  Perhaps you should not speculate: ("I cannot believe...Ebay's legal department certainly would not allow...")

You are wrong about proving the damage.  The damage was related to water resistance, which can be determined by machine pressure testing readouts.  The seller has those readouts as proof of pressure testing results before shipping to Ebay.  The seller did not as you suggest send the watch out for pressure testing.  Certified watchmakers have the pressure testing equipment in-house.  After I got the watch from ebay, the watch pressure testing/water resistance obviously failed.  (You're wrong about condensation; fine mechanical watches (which don't have batteries, by the way) do NOT get condensation in them if they are in the appropriate state of being able to pass pressure testing.  A watch that condenses in a steamy bathroom would be absolutely destroyed diving at 600 feet. 

[greencheekvintage]

Thank you.  My request is to get the necessary emergency service fee refunded to me by ebay.  The watch is now fine.

[1tuna]

the watch center in Ohio is supposed to check out the movement. this requires taking the back off for inspection.

looking for cosmetic stuff is not authenticating it at all 

watches are not even checked to see if they keep time since thats not part of being an authentic watch

inspection of the movement is imperative to weed out the super fakes

putting a case back, back  on with a cockeyed gasket is a problem that most watch makers can identify with.

the legal department has nothing at all to do with opening a watch since that service is part of the authenticate service that is offered. I am sure the legal department knows whats being done.

@mudshark61369 

[greencheekvintage]

FWIW, ebay has currently collected documentation and has agreed to elevate it to a department with the ability to issue "courtesy discounts".  I will provide updates on what they decide.  The original seller/jeweler has been supportive and communicative in the process.

[greencheekvintage]

Update:

Ebay agreed to refund the $750 repair cost of the watch.

They said they would consider my observation that serious watch buyers will object to the revelation that ebay authentication insists on opening watches as part of their process.  This may void warranties, and leads to situations like mine where the seller of the watch can not guarantee the condition it arrives in.

[mtgraves7984]

Update:

Ebay agreed to refund the $750 repair cost of the watch.

@greencheekvintage 

Wow. Good going! 🙌

[tylevoh_0]

EBay needs to add an option, where you choose whether they open the case back for authentication. That way, they are covered if someone swaps out parts, and the buyer is covered if they want the water-resistant rating to be uncompromised.  

[pehnaligon]

I bought a ploprof 1200 on Ebay, a Racing Americas Cup b4 that...

Took no chances, brought it to my watchmaker for peace of mind.

Luckily the water tightness was not compromised. 

Yes, it's annoying but ebay has no choice - thousands of scams led to this measure.   Lesser evil I suppose. 

[couturehomecollection]

Thanks so much, @greencheekvintage for raising awareness about this important issue. What a nightmare!  I have found it interesting to read about various authentication issues arising. The world is becoming a trickier place it seems.  I'm so glad that you acted quickly and that you were refunded the emergency fee. I have noticed on the boards that there are a number of people who consider themselves experts and are clearly not. I also appreciate your sharing your in-depth knowledge and appreciation of fine watches. So glad everything was resolved to please you. 

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