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aaronsattic
Community Member
Posts: 6
Registered: ‎01-29-2003

FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

[ Edited ]

How are they still dong this? Did they NOT learn their lesson when they lost the multi-million dollars class action suit filed by eBay Motors’ sellers?! If you’re not providing a service then you cannot charge a fee!
USPS, FedEX, UPS …etc are the ones providing the shipping service! Ebay is filing this as a “business expense’! How is it an “Expense” when you’re making millions of dollars on it?! By the way, on the off chance you don’t know, the IRS doesn’t tax businesses on expenses! So, this money is all tax free! Talk about “cooking the books”!
  Ebay says it’s because some seller’s overcharge for shipping! Let’s face it, that’s BS! I have sold on eBay for over 10 years and I almost always loose a little money on everything I ship! That’s one of the reasons why my individual number on Shipping is so high! First of all, I sell mostly records. Ebay long ago implemented a maximum shipping charge on records! So... How can I be overcharging?! As far as overseas customers, I charge less than what the USPS charges! So, again, How can I be overcharging?!! Secondly, on Jan 28th of last year the USPS raised their rates nearly 300% across the boards! Did eBay raise their shipping maximums as well? Hell No! These maximums were already unrealistic to begin with! I had a lot of  overseas buyers this month who purchased multiple records so I got royally screwed on the Final Value on Shipping Charge Fees! The bottom line is this fee is ILLEGAL! The courts have already established this by their ruling in the favor of eBay Motors sellers on the class action suit! So again, I ask … How is Ebay still getting away with this illegal activity?! I would love to see an actual Ebay Administrator answer this? No, let me rephrase that! I CHALLENGE an actual Ebay Administrator to answer this!

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Community Member
Posts: 7,811
Registered: ‎11-17-2002

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to aaronsattic

WOW!  Fantastic!  I guess you did not realize that these Boards are composed of eBay buyers and sellers, not eBay personnel.

 

Also, eBay has charged this fee since about 2008.  Glad to hear you have already charged only appropriate shipping. And I do not really relieve eBay instituted this process to punish you specifically.  Unfortunately, in the beginning, there were sellers who charged $3 for an item and $100 for shipping in order to avoid eBay FVF.  eBay then figured that out.

 

If you would like your complaint to be seen by eBay "administrators", you are in the wrong place.  

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volvo351
Community Member
Posts: 1,370
Registered: ‎01-13-2005

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to aaronsattic

There are already several threads on this.  Look, savvy sellers already know it's a rip-off.   We sell here not b/c it's a good deal,  but because circumstances sometimes require unpleasant choices.  In biz, you do what you gotta do.   I operate above-board and give my customers the best deal I can.  I'm forced to do that because of competition.  eBay enjoys a near-monopoly position and has chosen to exploit that, IMO.  That's a decision they have to live with.  Judging by the millions JD and others are pulling down, the shoddy treatment of their paying customers isn't keeping them up at night. 

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Community Member
Posts: 3,009
Registered: ‎11-26-2010

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to marraloo

The bottom line is this fee is ILLEGAL!

 

This is a common claim, but no one who makes can ever cite the law being broken.

 

The courts have already established this by their ruling in the favor of eBay Motors sellers on the class action suit!

 

The class action suit was a civil action, not a criminal action. That ruling did not address final value fees on the shipping amount on the core eBay site. The ruling applied only to a specific practice and covered a specific set set of transactions in a specific category during a specific period of time.

 

Unlucky

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banana-posts
Community Member
Posts: 1,142
Registered: ‎05-20-2010

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to aaronsattic

Half the stuff ebay does is probably illegal or at best, immoral. Offer free shipping and jack up your price. Problem solved. 



Change.....As the wind blows
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nc-daydreamer
Community Member
Posts: 5,004
Registered: ‎10-06-2008

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to aaronsattic

I can honestly say that no one that I know of likes this fee.  It does seem wrong to me too.  But, they can only charge what we allow them to - right or wrong.  

 

How are they allowed????

 

Because you (like the rest of us) gave them permission to do so when you signed your user agreement to sell here.  It's in the contract.  Challenging this contract and eBay's so-called 'rights' to force this clause in the contract - is another matter; and I will stick my neck out here and say that I agree with you to a point - it is an unethical charge.

 

You may find this link interesting.... as it goes into some detail about this...

 

http://www.ecommercebytes.com/C/letters/blog.pl?/pl/2014/1/1389386940.html 

 

And as far as letting eBay officially know and talking to real employees - you have two options...

 

One way is eBay radio - here is a recent link...

 http://community.ebay.com/t5/eBay-Radio/Ask-Griff-amp-Lee-320-NEWSLETTER-January-16-2014/gpm-p/16552...

 

Secondly, get involved with the Wednesday group discussions... here is a recent link to that...

http://community.ebay.com/t5/Weekly-Chat-with-eBay-Staff/Weekly-Chat-with-the-eBay-Community-Team-Ja...

 

The rest is up to you.  You can get involved and contribute to finding a solution, or you can continue to just rant.

 

 

=====================================
Live simply. Care deeply. Love generously. Speak kindly. Laugh loudly. Act responsibly. Rejoice daily.
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18704d
Community Member
Posts: 3,244
Registered: ‎08-01-2009

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to aaronsattic

How are they still dong this?"

Because it's not illegal.

"If you’re not providing a service then you cannot charge a fee!"

Sure businesses can.. and there's many examples of businesses legally doing this.

"Ebay says it’s because some seller’s overcharge for shipping!"

But we know it's to pressure us for free shipping.

"The bottom line is this fee is ILLEGAL! The courts have already established this by their ruling in the favor of eBay Motors sellers on the class action suit!"

I'm guessing you refer to the  “Brice Yingling dba Alamo Auto Sports and Andy Scott vs. eBay, Inc.” class action suit, not the more recent 2013 "Featured Plus" class action suit...

And the “Brice Yingling dba Alamo Auto Sports and Andy Scott vs. eBay, Inc.” stated:
that  from April 21, 2005 to August 26, 2009, eBay charged incorrect final value fees to its eBay Motors sellers. eBay of course denies these allegations. Under a proposed settlement, eBay would be forced to establish a Settlement Fund of $30 million to be reimbursed to sellers that were over charged Final Value Fees from the listed dates.

And it was a mutual "settlement" not a legal declaration eBay was in the wrong.

Lynn




You love me for everything you hate me for

.
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black*max
Community Member
Posts: 10,753
Registered: ‎02-12-2008

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to banana-posts

That bit about not providing a service was because eBay charged a fee for better search placement and did not provide it.

eBay is not claiming any service for shipping FVF and is not charging only some sellers the fee.

Many other sites have been doing it long before eBay started to.

 photo tig02-1.jpg
-It's One World... One Family - It's time to grow up-
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*eponymous*
Community Member
Posts: 4,060
Registered: ‎06-12-2007

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to aaronsattic

It's ILLEGAL?  Quick, go tell Jeff B*zos.  Amz has always collected fees on s/h.


Press 1 2 3 for English

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art_dealer_cal
Community Member
Posts: 1,547
Registered: ‎10-17-2003

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to *eponymous*

they have to make those quarterly profit numbers!

 

its called GREED!

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*eponymous*
Community Member
Posts: 4,060
Registered: ‎06-12-2007

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to art_dealer_cal

I think it's called capitalism on every level and, for corporation, being accountable to the shareholders.  Profit is the name of the game, isn't it?  Otherwise, what is it called when sellers get more money for an item than they paid for it?


Press 1 2 3 for English

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Community Member
Posts: 754
Registered: ‎09-04-2013

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

[ Edited ]
in reply to aaronsattic

I don't like FVFs on shipping but........ they do provide a service. Their site and software can be used to print, upload tracking and receive discounts. What? you don't use those? kinda like staying at a hotel, you may not use the pool or the gym but you are paying for them, whether you use them is your choice. Plus there is the whole history of sellers trying to hide sales in shipping cost.

 

What is your planned outcome? what do you hope to accomplish? would you rather they got rid of FVFs on shipping, start maximum shipping charges across the board, or mandatory free shipping and charged 20% FVFs on price? They will charge what the market will bear. As long as people are paying it why would they stop? If you really wanted to change things, get 20 million of your friends to leave and sell somewhere else and maybe ebay would notice. One reason they did this was to make more profit, they take this away it isn't like they wouldn't add more fees someplace else.

 

And I too often post negative ebay things.... I wish I worked for ebay, I could use the money.

 

 

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nowthatsjustducky
Community Member
Posts: 2,339
Registered: ‎08-30-2011

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to *eponymous*

*eponymous* wrote:

It's ILLEGAL?  Quick, go tell Jeff B*zos.  Amz has always collected fees on s/h.


 

First of all, I partially agree with the sentiments here in that on the surface, it feels like this should be illegal, and even my veteran postal clerks at my post office have agreed that it isn't right that they do this, but as was said, thus far, no one has uncovered an actual law that this is breaking.  eBay's gut parasites, I mean their lawyers I'm sure, took extra precautions to make sure the venue was well within the law (not caring if it was actually an ethical maneuver of course).

 

As far as other sites doing it, Bonanza is the only other one I have sold on that comes close to doing it the same way eBay does.  However, I can't speak for all sites, since I only have experience so far with eBay, Bonanza, eCrater, eBid, Etsy, and Amazon.  The differences are that the first $10 is exempt, and the percentage is much smaller.

 

Amazon?  I just started selling there, and so far, it is not at all similar to how eBay does it.  When you set up your Amazon listings, you get to pick and choose from a selection of flat rate generic shipping services.  Amazon charges the buyer the rate they select from the choices you offer, then Amazon passes that amount to you, the seller.  If you don't use the entire amount, you get to pocket the rest to cover whatever other expenses involved in shipping you can dream up.  :smileywink:  If you manage to go over that amount, the balance comes out of your pocket.  When you actually purchase the shipping label, then Amazon charges a tiny amount, which effectively covers the shipping service they provide (interface to the shipping companies, infrastructure, etc).

 

So far, no matter what the price of my postage labels, and they have ranged from $2.14 to $2.48 since I only do stuff that can go First Class Parcel or Media there), the charge has been a paltry 7 cents, a big difference from the 10% of whatever the buyer pays here.  I perceive their little charge for the label as very much analagous to the way stamp machines at your corner drug store are set up, where they charge a little over face value to cover the costs of the service, not just a "Bend over and take it in the tail because we can do as we wish" fee like it is here on eBay.  The River's actually makes sense and is perfectly acceptable.

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art_dealer_cal
Community Member
Posts: 1,547
Registered: ‎10-17-2003

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to *eponymous*

Capitalism is a system in which property and investment in busines; are owned and controlled by individuals directly or through ownership of shares in companies. Capitalism revolves around Capital Markets to raise Capital to invest in inventory, plant & equipment. Don't confuse Mercahnts with Capitalists. Most corporations make far more monet selling their Stock or Bonds than they do selling their products.

 

Most eBay Sellers are 'Merchants' not Capitalists.

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jake-square-deals
Community Member
Posts: 3,721
Registered: ‎04-02-2006

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to art_dealer_cal

The ruling applied only to a specific practice and covered a specific set set of transactions in a specific category during a specific period of time."

 

LOL guess who was successful litigant in that..yours truly

 

Understand that JUST because your successful in sueing ebay, doesnt auto mean U are awarded FULL damages....LOL no it means you'l get crumbs unless your the Lawyer (s)

 

the settlement required ebay to TELL the successful litigants exactly how much they 'were ripped off' by ebays policy, yet after lawyers fees...all you got was just a TINY % of what the ACV damage u incurred

 

OTOH that was BEFORE ebays user agreement in relation to Class action suits quashed 'em

 

 

.........................................................................................................................................

“Ninety-nine percent of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses.”

–George Washington Carver

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nowthatsjustducky
Community Member
Posts: 2,339
Registered: ‎08-30-2011

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to buying4fun13

buying4fun13 wrote:

I don't like FVFs on shipping but........ they do provide a service. Their site and software can be used to print, upload tracking and receive discounts. What? you don't use those? kinda like staying at a hotel, you may not use the pool or the gym but you are paying for them, whether you use them is your choice. Plus there is the whole history of sellers trying to hide sales in shipping cost.

 

 

 


Sure, there is nothing wrong with a little surcharge to cover the costs involved interfacing with the shipping companies and whatnot, but 10% of what the buyer paid is actually pretty outrageous.  Printing out a $30 Priority label for a heavy package uses no more eBay resources than does printing out a $1.69 label for a 2 ounce First Class parcel.

 

If eBay wants to be like that big boy known as Amazon, then they should be able to withstand changing the charge to a tiny amount that reasonably covers whatever expenses are involved in providing shipping label services (which should be billed to the seller's account when and if the label gets purchased through eBay).  And considering how much gets printed directly from eBay, a paltry 7 to 10 cents for the label, spread out over hundreds of thousands or millions or transactions more than covers those expenses with plenty left over to cover JD's next big annual bonus.

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art_dealer_cal
Community Member
Posts: 1,547
Registered: ‎10-17-2003

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to jake-square-deals

I almost got squashed when I first brought up C-A suis

 

They changed the User Agreement so fast it made my head spin :smileytongue:

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jake-square-deals
Community Member
Posts: 3,721
Registered: ‎04-02-2006

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to nowthatsjustducky

The River's actually makes sense and is perfectly acceptable.

 

 

Oh....if perfectly acceptable means posting quarters with ZERO profit, that is

 

 

funny AZ was in the news this AM with a story about shipping items BEFORE they are paid for, by some buyer surveilace feature that SHIPS you the item & then asks for payment

 

 

uh, i guess thats perfectly acceptable for a company who gets POSITVE press coverage for posting ZERO PROFIT quarters

.........................................................................................................................................

“Ninety-nine percent of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses.”

–George Washington Carver

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jake-square-deals
Community Member
Posts: 3,721
Registered: ‎04-02-2006

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to jake-square-deals

IMO i wish MORE media sellers like those of nice used DVDs would STOP trying to bang their head against the wall between them & ebay about shipping & make BOX LOTS of associate movie genres

 

P-Boxes STUFFED with DVDs that buyers would swoop on.....the sellers just build the FS price into the listings....Seller gets better placement & no ship FVF + no ship charge rating ( in most cases )

 

so why fight with ebay over PENNYS? When you can RAKE with BOX-LOTS, offer FS & pay NO ship FVF

 

seems so easy

.........................................................................................................................................

“Ninety-nine percent of the failures come from people who have the habit of making excuses.”

–George Washington Carver

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gopetersen
Community Member
Posts: 12,354
Registered: ‎10-09-2009

Re: FINAL VALUE FEE ON SHIPPING CHARGE ILLEGAL!

in reply to *eponymous*

"It's ILLEGAL?  Quick, go tell Jeff B*zos.  Amz has always collected fees on s/h."

 

Every time I've sold something on Amazoon, I've put a bit extra in my pocket because the fee Amazon collected from the buyer and provided to me covered shipping, handling and a tiny bit extra. I don't know if this is true of all categories, but it's true of my category.

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