WARNING Misdescribed chess sets on ebay!

[r.van.der.veur]

Use this thread to notify group members about misdescribed chess sets on ebay.

[candylab1]

For the first time in history no-one seems to have a view on the dating of a Jaques set!

Whilst I would claim no special expertise, this set appears to be one that would be characterised under the "Camaratta Codex" as a "Steinitz" or "Megamouth" set, and therefore dating to 1865-1870 according to published material.

I could, of course, be mistaken....

Mick

[candylab1]

Hello All,

There has been such a flurry of interest since the original posting on this subject that I thought it might be useful to examine the dating evidence;

1. The knights in the set have pierced eyes. According to Alan Fersht the first sets to contain knights with this feature were the the "Steinitz" ones and he dates this to 1867. Prior to this date all Jaques knights have un-pierced eyes.

2. "Paulsen" (1853-1855) knights have a "kinked" mane at the base. The ones in this eBay listing have what might be described as a "sweeping, broad" mane, similar to "Steinitz" examples. Marco Dorland has detailed photos of a "Steinitz" set on his Picasa site for comparison.

3. Early Jaques bishops (1853-1855) have wide gashes in the bishops mitres that cut through the knop. This set has small gashes in the mitre and the knop is full. Again this latter feature arrives in the 1860's or 1870's.

The characteristics of this set are covered in published material. If we look at Alan Fersht's books with pictorial information then the "Paulsen" set is 1853-1855 and the "Steinitz" sets are 1865-1870 (1st book) and 1870-1875 (2nd book) . My opinion is that the chess set in question is a "Steinitz" rather than a "Paulsen", both denominations being introduced by Frank Camaratta and documented by Bob Stoller.

Mick

[ne0romantic]

320996196391

Bishops, Kings, Queens wrong style and quite new-looking compared to the rest of the set.

[ne0romantic]

251202298145 Appears to be ordinary Makonde set described as one of kind, something fish story about Louis Leekey, and with a hilarious asking price... unless someone else knows better.

[ne0romantic]

I bit and asked the seller about the Leakey provenance:

"Hi,
The older man who sold me this set told me the story about this chess set so I?m selling as I was told by that man and he told me that he got this set from his European friend many years ago when he was visiting him in Europe. I?m keeping this price because there are always collectors who have money and they like to have something unique and or one of a kind.
Regards,
Dan"

[d-baron]

Had to bite and take a look at the auction.  Have come to the conclusion it isn't just buyers who often get fed a line - sometimes it's the sellers, too.  :^O

[ne0romantic]

I am thinking in this case the seller knows better and is trying to pull one over on the buyer. I don't think there's really any chance of that happening with that insane price, though. Those with so much disposable income are simply smarter than that. I'm surprised with changes to the feedback system people are still trying that kind of swindling. Many years ago upon complaining of a bad experience with a seller I don't remember who it was but someone gave me the sage advice: never buy from someone who lists like this... referring to the story about the item and all the superlatives, and I think maybe some all caps or bold brightly colored phrases. I do think that's good advice.

[acf1515]

Hi All,

Actually i think it is a very nice Makondi set with some unusual features. Still not worth the asking price though!

Jim

[ne0romantic]

370637994835, 120864903793, 400366764836, 390406722394, 320791740652, 220514012203, 261146095240 😛

... and to all a goodnight.

[ne0romantic]

261249008336 ( http://www.ebay.com/itm/261249008336?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_from%3DR40%26_sa... ) appears to be a set from Val Gardina Italy, (maker 'OCTO'?)

eg: http://www.chess-museum.com/val-gardena-grodner-tal.html

https://picasaweb.google.com/thechesscollectors/ValGardena

I asked the seller about this and she said her husband got it on a trip to Germany. This is not the first time I heard a seller with a set that appeared identical to a Val Gardina set tell this story (and the last time it was a painted set.) I guess it's possible they also make this set in Germany since there's obviously been a lot of copying of Anri and similar in the past, but the style of carving and the kind of wood really look like Italy as well as even the box which seems identical to the box I got with my Dolfi set. It seems far more likely the German seller was a reseller, but anyway...

the insistance the set is "one of a kind" after being shown otherwise means the listing deserves a place here in my mind. It's a good set and that price does not seem unreasonable but it's far from one of a kind. It's very likey you can still buy them new today (as Nicholas says on his website, or at least did at the time of making that page.)

[ne0romantic]

310783062639 is a composite. There appear to be 4 Kings and no Queens in the set. At least two of the Kings if not all four look like ivory, and the rooks are certainly bone. I think most of the rest of the set is bone as well and probably matches the rooks. It's probably a barleycorn set. Also the set doesn't seem to have anything particular to do with Jaques. Of course it's possible Jaques made some of the pieces. The seller is apparently not taking questions so there doesn't appear to be a way to inform them if they don't know. Maybe someone wants to put comments in their photo album. I didn't feel it was worth making an account to try to do it.

[ne0romantic]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190999124799&ssPageName=ADME:X:eRTM:US:1123  A Selenus set with hobbled royalty and some mismatches all around. I let the seller the know about the problems and he's adament the set is perfect and a rare set that is 17th century and designed to look exactly like that... so the listing goes here... if anyone is still reading these.

[noybear]

I also tried contacting the seller who was adamant about his claims and knowledge about chess sets.

While I do not profess to be an expert I consider myself knowledgeable and I have not run across a Selenus without additional galleries/finials to finish off the K & Q. The seller explained that the K & Q pieces were not missing the upper galleries, etc. and without seeing the inside of the existing galleries it is impossible to know whether he is correct or not. I suspect that he is not.

I also tried pointing out other discrepancies which he claims were original but again, I have never seen anything like this beyond the understandable minor variations from hand turning. Lastly, considering the purported age, the boxes don't look nearly that old unless the whole shebang has been in a bank vault for the last 195 years IMO.

Durango is located in the southwest part of Colorado which has already had significant snowfall this year. I imagine that it would not be unreasonable for cabin fever to have set in in such a location already.....LOL....that would explain a lot in this case.

[ne0romantic]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=141146784364 An old friend of mine returns: http://www.tykroll.com/chess/amber.html The board is labled right this time, but it is otherwise identical to mine, and the seller's description is similar (mine was sold as "Russian Amber, pre-1970") but more detailed this time, and with a price tag one would expect for a real amber set. Now I never had mine tested to see if it is real amber... that seems a waste of time since it's very obviously fake. I contacted this seller and he may respond yet but with that kind of price tag I decided to post here and not wait.

[ne0romantic]

The seller has responded dropping a lot of names and added the names to the listing. He suggests I test the "chunks" floating in the resin in my pieces. I guess it's possible they're tiny bits of amber. I will test them with a flouresent light. If there is real amber in the set it'll be a shock to me and an even bigger shock if this one sells anywhere near the asking price.