Holding item while Seller disputes insurance claim denial

[bam_bom_gjvopyw]

I recently purchased a set of Talisman Board games from a seller ($600.00).  One of the corners of the shipping box was slightly dented, and when I opened the box (which was packed with only paper) 3 boxes were ripped and 2 of the boards were damaged and the boxes they were in looked to be pushed in.  I sent a message and several photos to the seller.  He filed a claim and I was sent a letter to take the item in for inspection.  During this time I had been communicating with the seller about what he needed from me and what kind of agreement we could come up with about the damage.  The seller kept blowing the agreement questions off or ignoring it completely.  I even explained to him that I have a limited time to get refunded or a partial credit.  The seller replied with "Let's hope it doesn't come to that, and I should look around for replacement parts.  This went on for about 5 days.  After one last message where I was more direct about getting something worked out, the seller did not respond.  I gave him a couple of days and when I did not get a response, I opened a case for a refund. (Maybe my second one ever)  This of course got the seller to finally respond.  Which was that he didn't except returns, it wasn't his fault the item was damaged, he doesn't check his email every day and that I should wait to see what the post office says.  I told the seller that I am protected by eBay's return policy, and that we have 4 days to work something out.  He then stated that of course he would give me a refund after the Post office made it's decision. 

As of yesterday the post office denied the claim.  The supervisor stated he did not think the items were damaged in transit and that he left notes on the claim.  I messaged the seller and told him that the supervisor denied the claim.  I told the seller I will hold the item in case he was wanting to appeal the denial.  I also don't have access to the claim, so I am unsure what exactly was filed.  The seller contacted me wanting to look into talking to someone else and that the claim was still showing pending on his end.    

Here are my questions:

1) Can I take the box to another Post Office and see if there is anyone else I can show it to?  I feel like the first Supervisor dismissed the items as they were only board games and were not very important.

2) Does shipping the item back still void the insurance claim now that they have already inspected and denied it?  I don't mind continuing to help the seller, but I believe that I have to send the item back before eBay refunds my money, correct?

[nobody*s_perfect]

You have done more than enough to accommodate this seller's insurance claim.  It's time to just escalate your claim with eBay and ship the item back if the seller wants it back.

[bam_bom_gjvopyw]

Thank you for the response.  I still have until April 05th before eBay steps in.  I already opened a case yesterday, the seller still wants me to wait until the claim has been resolved before discussing any refunds or credits.   I've stated twice now on the claim messages that we need to work it out before then or eBay will step in.

[nobody*s_perfect]

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@bam_bom_gjvopyw wrote: ...  the seller still wants me to wait until the claim has been resolved before discussing any refunds or credits.   I've stated twice now on the claim messages that we need to work it out ....

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That's because he cares more about his own interests than about yours. He might even be trying to stall you so that you forfeit your protection under eBay's buyer protection policy. There's really nothing to "work out," if you want your money back.

[orangehound]

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@bam_bom_gjvopyw wrote:

Thank you for the response.  I still have until April 05th before eBay steps in.  I already opened a case yesterday, the seller still wants me to wait until the claim has been resolved before discussing any refunds or credits.   I've stated twice now on the claim messages that we need to work it out before then or eBay will step in.

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I only want to add another voice here ... but give you the same direction as nobody*s_perfect.  This situation is between the USPS and the seller.  Any item that arrives damaged is eligible for a quick and full refund to the buyer.  I love that you are being helpful, but there is no need to create additional hassle for yourself ... if the seller will not refund or approve the return in a timely manner, then escalate with eBay.

[gr-2634]

The claim was denied because the seller didn't pack it properly.

Tell the seller in no uncertain terms you want a return label and to ship it back to him.

If he denies you the label, ask eBay to step in when you can.

[kensgiftshop]

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@bam_bom_gjvopyw wrote:

Thank you for the response.  I still have until April 05th before eBay steps in.  I already opened a case yesterday, the seller still wants me to wait until the claim has been resolved before discussing any refunds or credits.   I've stated twice now on the claim messages that we need to work it out before then or eBay will step in.

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If seller wants to file an insurance claim, he needs to go ahead and give your refund and not make you wait on a decision from USPS.

Its his problem to work with USPS on the claim.

As soon as you can, ask Ebay to step in.

[bam_bom_gjvopyw]

The seller did already file the  claim and I took it to the PO on Saturday.  Monday I picked the item up and the onsite supervisor stated he was denying the claim.  He did not give me an exact reason other than it was not the PO's fault and that he made his notes in the claim.  I do not have access to the claim, so I am unsure what the reason it.  I was also on my lunch break so I could not persist on a clearer explanation.   

My question is, the seller want to dispute the denial, and I am wondering if I would need to hold on to the item while he does or would the insurance be voided if now I sent it back to the seller?  The PO has already inspected the item and boxes, but if he is disputing it, would I possibly have to take the  item back to the post office?  

I knew when he didn't respond to my direct request, I was going to have to get eBay involved, and if (which is most likely to be the case) the seller does not want to give me a refund, I will gladly turn it over to them.   Which is why I am asking the above question, I have read that in order to get a refund, the buyer needs to show the item is being sent back, which if he is disputing the denial, would mean I couldn't send it back if the PO needs to inspect it again.  I will help the seller as much as I can, but not at my expense.  I just want to know what my options are.

[gr-2634]

"One of the corners of the shipping box was slightly dented, and when I opened the box (which was packed with only paper"

I guarantee he lost based on the fact he didn't package it and pad it properly.
Don't worry about his appeal, he's trying to jerk you around so you don't ship it back on time.
Just ship it back to him when you get the label.

[bam_bom_gjvopyw]

I hope this thread will help other's who are both selling and buying on eBay.  I have been very polite to the seller and have helped as much as I could.   I am sympathetic to the issue as it sucks when something goes wrong with at sale.  Honestly, I knew after our first couple of messages it was not going to go easy.  I tried every possible way to resolve this issue in a way that both of us could live with before escalating it to eBay.  

Here goes our last couple of messages, file this under how not to respond to a buyer on eBay:

Apr 02

You sent a message:

"Ok. I don't know how long it takes for it to update, hopefully soon. (He informed me the insurance claim was still showing pending)

As far as our eBay situation, I am now requesting a full refund. If eBay asks to step in on the 5th, I will turn it over to them unless you refund me before then. For me it will cost too much money to replace the damaged items ($400.00+) and without them. the item is not a complete set, which is why I purchased it. $600.00 is a lot of money, and to not get what I paid for (no matter if it was your fault or not) is not acceptable to me. I have given you enough chances to make a fair offer to fix the issue and you have not. For that reason I think it is best to just get a full refund and get the items back to you.

I will continue to help you with the insurance claim as much as I can, but not at my expense.

I will wait for you response."

Apr 02

The seller sent you a message:

"Look I get you are upset. I totally get it, but I am not at fault and no I will not refund you. I've been very cordial, I've done a lot more than any seller would have. Even if I refunded you I can't sell the game the way it is. I don't even have all the money. Ebay took 10% and PayPal took another 25 dollars and I paid the shipping and insurance with the money which was close to 70 dollars. So I dont even have it all to give. This is between you and the post office. I'm not there in Texas so I cant do anything on my end. They are the ones at fault and you need to go after them and leave me out of it. Once again I'm sorry this happened but why do I have to pay for someone else's mistake? That's not fair, and I wouldn't ask anyone to pay for someone else's mistake so why are you asking me too? I won't respond to anymore messages unless it is in regards to the post office getting the refund to you."  *The message was actually in Bold*

I simply responded that I was sorry he felt that way and I will let eBay take over on the 5th.  I have sold quite a bit on eBay and bought even more, this is by far the worst interaction with a seller/buyer I have ever had.  It appears he either does not understand how eBay works or is trying to bully me into submission.  I know my rights and I knew he wasn't going to give me any help.  Still I resisted the urge to argue back and keep it professional and polite.

Thank you everyone in this thread for your prompt responses, I rely a lot on these kinds of threads when selling items on eBay or trying to understand the best way to handle things as they arise.  I will update this thread once eBay (or by some slim chance the seller changes his mind) has made a decision on the open case. 

[myboardid]

In this case it looks like the Post office is correct in denying the claim, but from my experience, they ALWAYS deny damage claims unless you can prove they ran over the package with a truck.  The seller will lose any appeal. 

However, you MUST protect yourself.  Escalate the claim ASAP, and eBay will either provide you with a return label or just give you a refund quickly.  If eBay says to send them back, then do so.  The rest of it is the seller's responsibility. 

[nobody*s_perfect]

Yikes!  But look on the bright side: That horrible response removes any reservations or doubts you had about ending your cooperation with the seller's insurance claim. Onward!

[orangehound]

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@bam_bom_gjvopyw wrote:

I hope this thread will help other's who are both selling and buying on eBay. 

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This seller is about to get schooled on the eBay return process for a Money Back Guarantee claim ... not only will he be forced to refund, he will also lose more than $60 in eBay/PayPal fees and get a seller strike ... and eBay may not even require the merchandise be returned.

I don't blame the seller, by the way, because at one point or another most of us encounter this situation and get burned.  I blame eBay for not properly communicating to sellers and training sellers on how to properly handle a return claim.

[gr-2634]

I don't blame the seller, by the way, because at one point or another most of us encounter this situation and get burned. I blame eBay for not properly communicating to sellers and training sellers on how to properly handle a return claim.
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You can train someone all day long and they will still fail if they decide to deny responsibility.

[bam_bom_gjvopyw]

I really hate that it came to this.  I was even going to respond to his last message explaining how waiting for eBay to handle it would infinitely make things worse.  From what I've read, if you process a refund correctly, you get back most of your fees from eBay and PayPal back, minus some smaller fee PayPal charges.  But at this point I don't see any reason to continue to communicate with the seller.  I am a reasonable person and I was willing to find a cheaper solution to our issue.  He made it clear from the start he did not think he was responsible for anything once he shipped the box.