Free Returns

[plumbingspecials]

I had a conversation with an eBay rep yesterday who called me to tell me (once again) about the free returns program, and how this wonderful program can boost sales by 15 percent, according to some data that was most likely manipulated to get people to believe that sales = profits.

I feel really bad because by the end of the conversation, she was trembling, perhaps even in tears, and that was certainly not my intention. The poor girl was just doing the job she was hired to do, reading a script that she was told to read, and to try to convince Top Rated Sellers that it's okay to be extorted by eBay. I hope she did not take my feedback about eBay personally, but I really think it was her first day. I explained to her that this move by eBay is opening a whole new channel for thieves. Now they can search by "free returns" so they can target sellers who offer this program. Thieves know they can get items for free or for at least 50% off. There is no way a seller can make a profit with this strategy. There is no honor among thieves, and if eBay truly believes members are always honest, they are sadly optimistic. As it is now, most returns are FALSE SNAD cases (in other words, the buyer LIES to avoid shipping and restocking fees), so let's just make it easier for them by removing the step where they have to lie to return something for free (yep, that will make them honest!). The rep excitedly tells me that if the item is returned in any other condition than we sent it, we are allowed to keep 50% of the sale and refund only 50% instead of having to refund the full transaction. After four reports of buyers misuing the free returns system, eBay will give them warning. So they get to rip off at least FOUR sellers before eBay shuts them down.  (Yep, again that's keeping them honest!)

I reiterated to the rep that eBay is cheating us out of our TRS benefits by forcing us to take losses on our sales. If we do not conform to this ridiculously unprofitable policy, we do not get our benefits on those listings. So, If I sell an item for $1000, the buyer requests a return and sends back a box of rocks, I get to keep 50% of the sale IF I CAN PROVE that I sent out the correct item. I do not get a discount on my final value fees because it's only a partial refund, but hey, at least eBay put our TRS badge on that item.

So to put this in perspective:

I have a unit that I paid 700 for (because I am adistributor).

I sell the unit for $1000. I pay shipping $25. Buyer requests return, I pay another 25 plus call tagf fee of 16, so it costs 41 to bring it back. I receive a box of rocks, the buyer keeps the unit, and I get to keep half of the refund because the buyer didn't send back the same unit.  Here's what it looks like:

1000-100 (fvf)=900

900-25 (shipping)=875

875-700(cost of unit)=175

At this point I made a profit of 175 (sounds good, right?)

Oh but wait. The buyer requests a return (no reason is needed).

175 (what I initially made) - 41 (return shipping and call tag)=134

Buyer ships back box of rocks instead of a unit that I can re-sell.

134-500(partial refund for scam buyer)= -366

This transaction would cost ME $366 to receive something back other than what i sold.. Not sure how eBay expects people to sell here if we are not profitting or at least breaking even. 

I suppose the rep who called me NEVER SOLD A THING ON eBay! Because not one person who ever has, would agree that this is a "good" program for sellers. I think she realized that after I schooled her.

I still feel really bad though, because she honestly thought she was promoting a good program. 

[darsdandydeals]

And what kind of business are sellers/eBay gonna lose if and when we have to start charging tax on every purchase? 

[darsdandydeals]

Ebay wants us to believe that we are gonna get rich by giving away our merchandise, and also that it is possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.

[mr_lincoln]

@darsdandydeals

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@darsdandydeals wrote:

And what kind of business are sellers/eBay gonna lose if and when we have to start charging tax on every purchase? 

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Actually, "if" tax collection is instituted by every state it will be for ALL online sales venues ... the list is long and growing longer ... government wants a piece of the pie, as big a piece as they can get.  In our state we only have to charge for "in state" shipments then render what we collect to the state ... its a pass through system.  However, as part of the reporting process we have to report the TOTAL of our sales (item plus paid shipping) along with what was shipped IN state that we pay tax on.  So our state has a good idea of the total dollars that they are NOT getting paid tax on and they want it ...

There are others who know more about the current tax law then I do but from what I have read Amazon is already collecting tax - but I don't know for which states - and they are paying the states accordingly.  eBay should probably do the same as should Etsy, Hi-bid users, and all the other online sales venues.

To be honest, depending on the dollar volume,  we only have to report twice a year and I think maybe at most quarterly.  Thinking in those terms, a "venue" could collect tax from all participating states and bank the $$ earning a little interest before paying it out.

This whole thing will take a while to get sorted out is my guess ... but keep in mind this is not eBay specific ... it is taxing purchases made online so in the end the Buyer loses because they will be taxed regardless of venue.

My main issue with tax is that it should NEVER be charged on used items, antiques, collectibles, etc.  Those items had tax rendered to the state it was purchased in when it was purchased many years ago (unless the state never charged sales tax like Delaware).  To me that is double or more taxation. 

[missjen831]

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@partsgalore1 wrote:
I believe I read that sellers are protected against negative FB when they offer free returns. If we are indeed protected from losses due to buyer error, changed mind, etc ... perhaps the free return policy won't be as bad as if first seemed??? Time will tell. The truth is... I have always offered free returns when I make a mistake that caused the return. All I ever wanted was protection from buyers trying to make me pay for their mistakes. Will the free return policy accomplish this and still boost sales for all of us? Again... time will tell.

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Unfortunately you read wrong. Protection from negative feedback is NOT one of the perks of offering free shipping.

[mrconran]

I did sign on to free returns because I still make a pretty good amount on money I save on the fees. So far I have only had one return under this new program. The buyer admitted that they ordered the wrong item but it was after I had shipped. 

One thing I have noticed is that instead of a great boost in sales Ebay promised my sales are tanking. 

I am downabout 10%. Thats pretty scary as the past 3 years my business has grown, a lot.

Untill this year...

From 2016 to 2017 up 194%

From 2017 to 2018 up 33% do far sounds good but sales in May & June so far are just above 2017.

The 33% growth was due to Jan to April sales.  The next quarter is not looking good. 

I was ranked in the top 5000 seller's at one point. Currently I am ranked 9973 from the top seller.

[partsgalore1]

That's a tough situation for the reasons you mentioned. You can choose "buyer pays return shipping" as your return policy which may discourage buyers from using your parts to diagnose their TVs... if they still return the part you will eat the original shipping cost. The jury is still out on the "free returns" policy... but it may be the best way to protect yourself? Just make it clear in your listing that your parts are tested good and if a buyer returns a part, you will only refund the cost of the part, no shipping refunds! The buyer still has the option of asking eBay to step in so we'll have to see how they handle partial refunds. I sell some electrical parts and they are a thorn in my side due to buyers misdiagnosing their problems. You may even try "no returns" ... of course they can still claim defective and it will be hard for you to prove to eBay otherwise. Sorry I'm not being helpful... but I think you'll just have to experiment to see what works best for you. Good luck...

[monster-deals]

I can't wait to see what new update we "sellers asked for" that replaces this Free Returns dumpster fire.

Probably something we asked for like higher fees.

This constant tinkering needlessly costs both ebay and its users time and money.

[partsgalore1]

I finally found it.... here's the link, https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/seller-updates/2018-spring/seller-protection.html
it's in the first paragraph under "eBay seller protections"
Personally I think the increase in sales is pure bunk... we'll see....

[partsgalore1]

I totally agree... I just listed a bunch of movies (VHS & DVD) ... I have all the returns "buyer pays return shipping". Hopefully that will discourage most dishonesty....
I know it's dumb to list that stuff.. should have just taken it all to goodwill... LOL

[partsgalore1]

First... free returns are not required... you will lose your top rated seller discount if you don't offer free returns but that's no big deal. If you sell a lot of books, why don't you consider buying a cheap plastic bag sealing machine. Then if they return the books opened... you can deduct your 50% to cover shipping costs.

[partsgalore1]

It is... follow this link... and read the first paragraph under "eBay seller protections"
https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/seller-updates/2018-spring/seller-protection.html

[partsgalore1]

Same with me... no question, my sales did not improve after going to free returns and my sales this year are sharply down from last year.

[mr_lincoln]

@partsgalore1 

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@partsgalore1 wrote:
I finally found it.... here's the link, https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/seller-updates/2018-spring/seller-protection.html
it's in the first paragraph under "eBay seller protections"
Personally I think the increase in sales is pure bunk... we'll see....

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Increase in sales?  Which one?

1. Free Shipping = 11%

2. Free Returns = 15%

3. Guaranteed Delivery = 6.7

That's 32.7% increase in sales doing all of those things ...

[sidemouse]

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@partsgalore1 wrote:
Thanks for the post... You observations are very interesting / surprising. Perhaps that problem will be eliminated to some degree with our ability to discount the refund as much 50%? May I ask what you do when a buyer lies to you? I have a "zero tolerance" policy .. I always block them unless there is some evidence they just made a honest mistake. With SNAD claims, I always ask for a picture "so I can see what I did wrong" ... if they don't respond or won't send a picture... they are almost without exception, lying. If eBay backs sellers up when we discount the refund up to 50%... buyers whose default is to lie, will learn that it won't benefit them and hopefully will stop lying (and I can stop blocking them...) LOL. We shall see....

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Oh that...

Took some doing.

We no longer block the buyer, that was the first thing we decided to do as it shows fear.

We now have a lab where we test returns.  ALL returns are tested, just to be sure, even ones where the buyer paid the shipping (and without accusing the buyer) if the item is supposed to be working but it doesn't we don't want to resell it.

This generates extra work, that is where we had to standardize things.

So we came up with standardized testing which we follow up through documentation all of which was then instituted through rigorous return protocols. We trained our crew to follow these procedures and then presented the entire process to ebay by consistently following the new and improved return merchandise received methods.

We did that for some time...

Somehow or another we got enrolled in some beta program that allows us to decline a refund, ebay and the MBG can still override us but they rarely do, however we have learned a polite and professional attitude helps a lot.

For example...

We no longer engage in the practice of telling the buyer "told you so" (even if we are 100% in the right), we also refrain from giving them the "talk to the hand" attitude and we engage in these behaviors consistently... Meaning if the buyer is going through a specific return (lets say SNAD) that buyer gets the same standard answer  as the LAST buyer who returned a product via SNAD...

In simpler terms:

Assuming two separate buyers had two SNAD returns where both returns involved a SNAD that was truly a SNAD then both buyers will receive the exact same answer, to the letter.

Same goes if their SNADS were not truly SNADs.

We follow the same exact process in each case.

Certainly, sometimes specific actions are required for each product (as there can be a difference between something electronic vs something mechanical in terms of testing).

That having been said, I'm still seriously NOT in favor of free returns.

That is if you or any other sellers wish to offer it that's fine, but it shouldn't be forced on us.

[partsgalore1]

Thankfully free returns are NOT FORCED on us.
I tried "boiler plate" letters but never seemed to work for me. I sell so many different types of item I found it better to respond on a case by case basis....but that's just me.
I agree...attitude is everything. I have saved many deals where the buyer had a bad attitude... just by being kind and respectful. Most times, when they realize they are dealing with another human being trying to do his best... they soften up. Good luck with everything....