Universal Postal Union

[estella5624]

Have any others sellers heard of this proposal from the Trump administration?

U.S. to pull out of Universal Postal Union

This has propsal has receied little attention, but here are two articles from The Washington Examiner and The Washington Post.

Washington Examiner

Washington Post

What would this proposal mean for online sellers shipping outside of the United States?

What would this proposal mean for China shipping into the United States?

Any thoughts?

[dugoldstuff]

Maybe people will buy the real vintage item from the USA that they desire to decorate their homes with instead of a cheap reproduction from China made to look like the real vintage item from the USA that they desire to decorate their homes with.

[vintageista]

It means that the Trump Administration is looking to renegotiate the global postage rates that has had the USA at a DISADVANTAGE for a long time! Just like he is doing with the other trade agreements, he is signaling that he expects the USA to be treated more fairly!

The UN sponsored Univeral Postal Union has had the USA subsidizing a very large portion of Global Postage and Trump intends to change this! Of course, being a GLOBAL (meaning the big guys have to pay more than the little guys)  organization, they are issuing vacant threats to the US!

Any successful renegotiation would greatly benefit eBay sellers and level the playing field somewhat for Chinese merchants as it should be! The original agreement in question was negotiated in the 1800's and is badly out of date and lopsided AGAINST the USA, the more recent 2011 e-packet arrangement hopefully will also be renegotiated or ended!

What it would basically mean is that US online sellers would be at a lesser DISADVANTAGE to Asian shippers. It would mean that Asian shipper would have to pay more and would become more competitive with US online sellers!

[femmefan1946]

Since the Universal Postal Union is the treaty that makes it possible to ship to other countries and to receive mail from other countries, leaving the UPU would mean that you couldn't send a Christmas card to your Nonna in Sicily or get a birthday present from that aunt in Sri Lanka.

The cost to sellers in the USA would soar, since the USPS with its remarkably low international shipping costs would have to move to using the much more expensive courier services.

Companies like LL Bean and Wayfair would move their shipping to countries like Canada and Mexico which would remain in the UPU, with the loss of jobs that would entail. And if those were USPS union jobs, those would be well paid workers, the kind that have money to buy stuff on eBay.

[mansons2005]

Agreed. There is a very good chance that USA to international destination post would be restricted or even not available for some period. This arrangement is an official Treaty, not something they "just agreed" upon. There are many ramifications that are not being talked about openly as of yet. It would appear that renegotiation is needed as opposed to an outright cancellation.

[lunalapin1912]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

Since the Universal Postal Union is the treaty that makes it possible to ship to other countries and to receive mail from other countries, leaving the UPU would mean that you couldn't send a Christmas card to your Nonna in Sicily or get a birthday present from that aunt in Sri Lanka.

The cost to sellers in the USA would soar, since the USPS with its remarkably low international shipping costs would have to move to using the much more expensive courier services.

Companies like LL Bean and Wayfair would move their shipping to countries like Canada and Mexico which would remain in the UPU, with the loss of jobs that would entail. And if those were USPS union jobs, those would be well paid workers, the kind that have money to buy stuff on eBay.

---

Don't be so afraid!  That will not happen.  The US pays full price for all shipping, so there is no reason a country would want to restrict US mail.   LL Bean will still be shipping out it's products using the USPS.  China has subsidized mail because it's considered a 3rd world country, the USPS loses on average $1 on every package sent from China, including Epacket.    We lose around a half billion dollars a year due to China flooding our nation with their products.  Add to that, the millions lost from counterfeit items and we probably lose close to 3/4 billion

dollars a year.  No nation can keep up with that.  The USPS workers are all in the USA and her territories so they will not be losing their jobs because China has to pay the same to ship to America as the UK.

[wbattles]

https://www.yahoo.com/news/return-sender-postal-union-warns-171845702.html

Now a top official is saying that the U.S. withdrawal could put a stop to International mail for the U.S.

"It will have dramatic consequences for American consumers. It will cost them enormously. They will be all alone against all the countries of the world," Clivaz told The Associated Press on Friday. "They won't even be able to send (a package) to a neighboring country. It's an accord that links everybody." - Pascal Clivaz, deputy director-general of the Switzerland-based Universal Postal Union.

"A U.S. pullout from the 144-year-old organization, a specialized U.N. agency, would strip the U.S. from access to special codes needed to send and receive mail internationally, Clivaz said. Any U.S. companies that need them — like FedEx or UPS — would lose access too, he said. This agreement regulates all the issues: technical problems, customs issues, security issues. Without the codes, without this green light, you can't move a single letter or package," he said."

Renegotiation of the treaty would require a majority vote among UPU members.

I don't know about you, but half of my buyers are overseas so....

[pacebicyclehaven]

I've always marveled at Chinese shippers' ability to send items (eg, all the 99-cent items with "free shipping") to the US for far less cost than anyone in the US could mail a 1-oz package to a next-door address -- and always wondered who's subsidizing them, and why.

[sharingtheland]

We lose around a half billion dollars a year due to China flooding our nation with their products.  

That "half billion dollars" is a number exaggerated by you-know-who.  The same you-know-who that doesn't understand, or refuses to listen to/understand, the definition of a trade deficit.  

It does not mean the US is losing money.

[southern*sweet*tea]

I have no problem with other countries selling to the US and mailing their stuff here. It should cost them the same thing or more that it costs domestic sellers. 

It costs me $2.66 to mail a four ounce doohickey across the street. It should cost an international seller at least that much, if not more.  If other countries want to subsidize their sellers' postage costs, that's cool...but the cost paid to the USPS should be the same price (or more) that it costs a domestic seller to deliver that same item.  No special rates for anyone. No more shipping 10k miles for pennies and losing dollars on each package. That's insanity.

[femmefan1946]

 LL Bean will still be shipping out it's products using the USPS. 

But the USPS won't have any way of paying other postal systems to carry those packages to their destination overseas.

That's what the UPU does.

Countries wouldn't restrict mail. They simply would not have a method of processing it.

With the UPU there is a very very complicated system that very very basically counts up all the parcels and letters coming in and going out of each country (and passing through for that matter-- a lot of European mail goes through the Netherlands) and assigns a value to it.

There is a different value for First World countries and for Developing countries, which is where the original problem with China Post came in, the country's economy boomed very suddenly and mail was still being assessed as 'developing' after it should have been paying more.

At the end of the day, payments are exchanged and the UPU  handles those transactions. When I lived in Ottawa the Canada Post official in charge of this explained it to me at a dinner party. It was very boring and I drank a lot of shiraz to compensate, so I can't go into any detail.

I have no worries about most international mail. I'm in Canada and our government thinks their job is to make life easier for the population.

Withdrawing from a Treaty that has worked well since the USA came up with the idea in 1874 is not going to make international commerce easier.

[lunalapin1912]

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@sharingtheland wrote:

We lose around a half billion dollars a year due to China flooding our nation with their products.  

That "half billion dollars" is a number exaggerated by you-know-who.  The same you-know-who that doesn't understand, or refuses to listen to/understand, the definition of a trade deficit.  

It does not mean the US is losing money.

---

I work for the USPS, and yes, they are losing money with the China shipping.  If you want to understand why this is bad for our country, take an economics class.

[lunalapin1912]

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@femmefan1946 wrote:

 LL Bean will still be shipping out it's products using the USPS. 

But the USPS won't have any way of paying other postal systems to carry those packages to their destination overseas.

That's what the UPU does.

Countries wouldn't restrict mail. They simply would not have a method of processing it.

With the UPU there is a very very complicated system that very very basically counts up all the parcels and letters coming in and going out of each country (and passing through for that matter-- a lot of European mail goes through the Netherlands) and assigns a value to it.

There is a different value for First World countries and for Developing countries, which is where the original problem with China Post came in, the country's economy boomed very suddenly and mail was still being assessed as 'developing' after it should have been paying more.

At the end of the day, payments are exchanged and the UPU  handles those transactions. When I lived in Ottawa the Canada Post official in charge of this explained it to me at a dinner party. It was very boring and I drank a lot of shiraz to compensate, so I can't go into any detail.

I have no worries about most international mail. I'm in Canada and our government thinks their job is to make life easier for the population.

Withdrawing from a Treaty that has worked well since the USA came up with the idea in 1874 is not going to make international commerce easier.

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The US pays FULL PRICE for everything that is shipped to another country.  There are absolutely no subsidies on US shipping.  Other countries MAKE money off our country's mailings.  Nobody is going to be turning away American mail.  Stop believing everything the losing side is saying.  They have no interest in making it better for the American workers.  

[sharingtheland]

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@lunalapin1912 wrote:

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@sharingtheland wrote:

We lose around a half billion dollars a year due to China flooding our nation with their products.  

That "half billion dollars" is a number exaggerated by you-know-who.  The same you-know-who that doesn't understand, or refuses to listen to/understand, the definition of a trade deficit.  

It does not mean the US is losing money.

---

I work for the USPS, and yes, they are losing money with the China shipping.  If you want to understand why this is bad for our country, take an economics class.

---

I wasn't talking about USPS's monetary losses; I was talking about Trump's insistence that the US is "losing" money to China because of the trade deficit.   Which he continually inflates to "half billion dollars" and that is not accurate.

I have taken economics courses.  Even before google was invented I understood that the definition of a trade deficit does not mean "losing money."

[femmefan1946]

Without the Universal Union Treaty, the USA will have to negotiate a treaty for mail handling with every one of the 178 countries in the UPU individually.

Those countries may want to accept US mail, but there is no contract for payment without the UPU.

You may want to buy a candy bar at the corner store, but if you only have euros in your pocket, you won't be able to buy it.

You need an agreed upon method of payment.

The method has been since 1874, the Universal Postal Union. Which was, by the way, an American idea at a time when the USA was pretty much a backwater.  The UPU made postal shipping much easier.

Before then, if I wanted to send you a letter from here in Canada, I needed to buy a Canadian stamp to take it to the border and then somehow find an American stamp to carry it from there to you.

It was even more complex if I wanted to send a letter to Switzerland, which has no waterfront. I would need a Canadian stamp to take it to the border, then a stamp of the nation that the boat belonged to, then a stamp of France (or Italy or Germany) to carry it to the Swiss border, then a Swiss stamp to get it to its final destination.

The UPU meant that I can affix a Canadian stamp and it would carry the letter across all those borders.

Yes, new treaties can be negotiated, but how long will it take to make those with the, again, 178 countries currently in the Union?