THE EASIEST WAY TO STEAL ANYTHING ENCOURAGED BY EBAY

[astessa]

Just wanted to share what happened to us and how is easy to rip off any sellers with the help of ebay.

We have posted an item for sale, the detailed multiple picture were provided, the exact description of the item was posted.  The item's price was $100 plus $20 for S&H tracked.

When the seller received the item all is he said was that is not exactly the item he wanted and immediately applied for a refund.  eBay sent us a note with 5 days given to refund and to pay for an extra S&H to the "buyer" if we want our item back otherwise the buyer can keep the item. Nobody from eBay even tried to look into a case. Since the S&H from the buyer's side was an extra $25 we couldn't afford to pay an extra. Five days later eBay refunded payment to the buyer. We have lost: the payment, the item and now "the buyer" is blackmails us with a negative feedback. What is the point to sell anything to be ripped off later on?

Even if we pay for the return S&H the "buyer" could easily replace the item with some removed parts from the original item since he is already got his money back. It just does not make a sence.

It is very unfortunate that eBay became a spawning grounds for all sort of con-artists. It is very unfortunate that there is no U.S. anti-monopoly bylaw applies to eBay/Paypal to penalize them hard. Live and learn. Down with eBay!

[liq1000]

Until eBay revises their nutty money back guarantee they will continue to generate problems with sellers here.

Sold as is means sold as is with no returns should be excluded from the money back guarantee program period.

No returns should mean exactly that, buyer beware, they do not have to buy it.....

[bubbleman2010]

Would that have been the iphone?

[*eponymous*]

eBay sent us a note with 5 days given to refund and to pay for an extra S&H to the "buyer" if we want our item back otherwise the buyer can keep the item. 

If you had posted a thread before you ignored the warning, you would have been told to accept the return and make provisions for the label. eBay will invoice you for the label but, if you have an international buyer, you do have to send money to the buyer through PayPal for the label.

Read the boards and learn how things work.  You found the boards in 2015 and asked a question about paying for return shipping.  Back then, eBay forced buyers to pay for return shipping no matter the reason for the return.  Sellers have to stay current with policy changes.  Read the announcements as they come out, and then read the boards.  Any time you have an issue, post a thread - the boards are eBay's best resource (free help from other eBayers trying to help folks wade through the quagmire that is eBay).

Not meaning to be harsh, but sellers who cannot afford a return shipping label should sell locally. eBay is no different in their return policies than any other online venue.

It's kinda sour grapes to say the buyer might have returned the item with damage so what's the use, anyway...sure, he might have, or he might have just sent your item back.  You'll never know now.

[gabbycockatiel]

You could have been out just the $25 for return shipping plus the $20 original shipping, and resold your item to recoup the $100 selling price. Instead, you're now out the entire $145, and you also have a defect on your account from not resolving the situation with the buyer yourself. What the buyer say was the problem with the item? Did they send you pics? And what do you mean about "blackmails us with a negative feedback" - what more could the buyer possibly want if s/he already has the item plus a full refund? What is s/he blackmailing you for? And if they really are doing this, you can report it to Ebay as Feedback Extortion.

[ittybitnot]

if you have an international buyer, you do have to send money to the buyer through PayPal for the label.

LOL If a seller does that, and the buyer does not return the item the seller is out the extra scam money.   There is no procedure for a seller to recoup that money sent to a buyer in China who claims SNAD.   Fortunately, I will not have an international ebay buyer. 

[megadestroyers]

"When the seller received the item all is he said was that is not exactly the item he wanted and immediately applied for a refund. eBay sent us a note with 5 days given to refund and to pay for an extra S&H to the "buyer" if we want our item back otherwise the buyer can keep the item."

First, the buyer didn't immediately apply for a "refund".  Buyer asked for a "return" request.  Second, the time limit is nowhere near 5 days to issue a refund.  Third, you likely had to pay return shipping, maybe............

If a buyer requests a "return", ball is in your court.  You are presented several options to "accept" for the buyer.  Ignoring is not one.  Return for full refund is usually the popular choice.  And you have some time (days), to decide.  Your buyer may counter, asking for a partial refund.  Up to you whether to work something out, or stick with original return for refund.

Once that choice is made, ball is back in your court.  First, the shipping part.  If in US, yeah, you gotta eat the return shipping cost.  International is a bit different.  If the international buyers physical address is off-shore and they used a US forwarding shipper, then no.  You would not be responsible for shipping from his international physical address. 

Second would be timing.  A US buyer or an international buyer who used a US forwarding shipper address have 5 biz days to return item, tracking provided, same method shipped back as sent.  If this time requirement isn't met, you could call ebay and have case closed in your favor (see below about Paypal).

Third, if partial refund agreed to, refund the agreed to amount.  Might have been close to your additional shippin cost, who knows.  Request should then close.

Once this is done by the buyer, ball now back in your court.  Ideally, though it would take a good argument, item is to be returned in the same condition it was sent.  If not, or even if you get a phonebook back, you could call ebay, but chances are you won't convince them.  Yeah.  I know.  After you get the item back, now we're into "refund" territory.  You have 6 days to issue a full refund.

Now some of the gotchas.  Find the thread about MBG/defect, read through that one.  I don't wanna repeat much of what's in there.  It's actually very, VERY, VERRRRRY, concerning, with much that just doesn't ring as being RIGHT.  Anything from defect generation to ebay/Paypal kinda like being seperate Siamese twin companies cojoined at the hip, seperated at the skull.  Arguments back and forth as to which ended up with the grey matter; me thinks that was tossed with the gauze!

Anyway, just be aware your buyer could ALSO open a Paypal account at anytime during the ebay "request/case" process, right up to the point ebay would decide on the case.  And even then, there's uncertainty about just how far a Paypal claim can reach, given ebays very passive, subservient attitudes towards Paypal.

[vintagecraze50]

First the proper proceedure for a return request for any reason is to immediately allow a return for refund. If you do not agree to these terms and wait or refuse to refund YOU WILL BE OUT YOUR ITEM AND YOUR MONEY. Best case scenerio here is to agree to the refund no matter what. Most do not have a foot, leg to stand on in a dispute here, that is what is expected as the venue  wants more more more pleased customers and less less less disputes. I have thought long about this process and the only conclusion I can come to related to  several factors. 1). People will return something and come hell and high water they ARE GOING TO GET IT. 2). The Pay Pal Ebay split happened for several reasons one may be that if a claim for a refund was denied through Ebay or Pay Pal it limited the buyers ability to GET THEIR MONEY BACK IN A BAD TRANSACTION. There were probably legal implications in this as well for Ebay, PayPal or both. Some of it had to do with preserving both entities and growing those entities. 3). Back in the day when Ebay was a smaller player and the internet was not the mega buying place it is now, they probably could afford to do courtesy refunds when problems happened with good sellers. Now, with millions and millions of transactions they would go bankrupt if they had to courtesy refund. 4) The internet is now a highly competitive place for everyone. The company has to stay on top of keeping buyers here or they will sink from the competition.

[gracieallen01]

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@vintagecraze50 wrote:

First the proper proceedure for a return request for any reason is to immediately allow a return for refund. If you do not agree to these terms and wait or refuse to refund YOU WILL BE OUT YOUR ITEM AND YOUR MONEY. Best case scenerio here is to agree to the refund no matter what. Most do not have a foot, leg to stand on in a dispute here, that is what is expected as the venue  wants more more more pleased customers and less less less disputes. I have thought long about this process and the only conclusion I can come to related to  several factors. 1). People will return something and come hell and high water they ARE GOING TO GET IT. 2). The Pay Pal Ebay split happened for several reasons one may be that if a claim for a refund was denied through Ebay or Pay Pal it limited the buyers ability to GET THEIR MONEY BACK IN A BAD TRANSACTION. There were probably legal implications in this as well for Ebay, PayPal or both. Some of it had to do with preserving both entities and growing those entities. 3). Back in the day when Ebay was a smaller player and the internet was not the mega buying place it is now, they probably could afford to do courtesy refunds when problems happened with good sellers. Now, with millions and millions of transactions they would go bankrupt if they had to courtesy refund. 4) The internet is now a highly competitive place for everyone. The company has to stay on top of keeping buyers here or they will sink from the competition.

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Perhaps ebay should be limited on how many transactions they can handle, in a given period of time and for how much money, until they prove that they can handle transactions honestly, efficiently, ethically and responsibly - just like they limit sellers.  Then, they can request a limit hike.

[megadestroyers]

First, your buyer likely did not immediately apply for a return.  They like filed a "request" for a return, item not as described.  Second, ebay did not likely (ok.  Maybe the goofs did?) send an email statimg a refund was required within 5 days.

Third, you will likely have to eat the return shipping costs, maybe......

Your buyer will open a return "request", at which point the ball is in your court.  You will be presented several options, the most popular, initially, is the return for full refund.  Ignoring is not given as an option.  You can choose this option if you wish.  And there is a time window you are allowed (days) to respond.  

Once that is sent to your buyer, your buyer may counter along the lines of "how 'bout a partial refund?"  Many reasons for the buyer to pursue this option.  If you decide on a partial refund, you can issue it with your alloted time frame, and the request should close.  In your case, a partial might have been close to the return shipping cost you were out.

If you're set on a return for full refund, buyer then has several requirements they have to meet.  But first, the cost of return shipping.  If your buyer was a US buyer, yeah, chow down.  However, if your buyer was an international buyer, with an off-shore address who used a US forwarding shipper, you are not responsible for the cost of shipping from their physical address.

Next, buyer has 5 biz days to make the return, provide tracking, and ship via the same method as item was received.  IF the buyer does not initiate the return within that time frame, call ebay immediately.  Don't lollygag as timing could be everything (see below for Paypal).  Tell ebay buyer did not return within 5 biz days.  ebay, by "stepping in", now elevates request to "case", whereby they will conduct a very thorough investigation.  This usually involves the CSR looking at the same screen shot you are, case closed likely when you're still on the phone.  Or very soon after.

If you do receive the return, you are allowed 6 days to issue the return.  Also, though very difficult to prove to ebay is requirement that the returned item be in the same condition as it was sent.  Honestly, not likely Moses could be that convincing!  When refund issued, request should close.  

This is just the ebay side of the fence.  Keep in mind, Paypal is lurking.  At anytime during the request/case process on ebay, your buyer could open a claim on Paypal, this right up to the point ebay decides a case.  Even after a case is closed is somewhat unclear given ebays passive, subservient attitudes towards Paypal. 

If a Paypal claim is opened, ebays will automatically close, wherever it is in the process.  Defect generation is up in the air, and very, VERY, VERRRRY concerning as to the reasonings ebay applies to this!!!  No understating this.  For being supposedly 2 seperate Siamese twin companies cojoined at the hip but seperated at the skull (arguments back and forth as to who got the grey matter; I think it went out in the trash with the gauze!) just too much finger pointing at the other!  So, beware of this issue.  Quite possible you'll still have to contact ebay even though you'd see your case was closed.

Word "cluster" comes to mind..............

Anywayz, read this thread for more about the Paypal/ebay shananigans here:  

 The remorse return on ebay + SNAD defect thread.

[kitschy*loot]

If eBay did what you suggest, unscrupulous sellers could list any piece of junk As Is, and then simply tell the buyer nobody forced them to buy it, when they are unhappy with the piece of junk.

It's strange how some are against a policy that allows sellers to be cheated, but are for a policy that allows buyers to be cheated.

[liq1000]

Wrong, is a seller going to risk his reputation and feedback by sending out trash instead of what is clearly photographed and described in the listing ?

There is something called trust in the business process you know.

[gramophone-georg]

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@kitschy*loot wrote:

If eBay did what you suggest, unscrupulous sellers could list any piece of junk As Is, and then simply tell the buyer nobody forced them to buy it, when they are unhappy with the piece of junk.

It's strange how some are against a policy that allows sellers to be cheated, but are for a policy that allows buyers to be cheated.

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False.

From the day eBay began accepting electronic payments, buyers have had buyer protection. 

It's called a PayPal payment (or in the early days a Billpoint or Bid Pay payment too) funded with a credit card.

Today, PayPal also has Buyer Protection.

If you think about it, an eBay MBG was never needed.

[gramophone-georg]

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@liq1000 wrote:

Wrong, is a seller going to risk his reputation and feedback by sending out trash instead of what is clearly photographed and described in the listing ?

There is something called trust in the business process you know.

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Yup. In the early days you had your rep, and sellers protected that rep by doing the right thing. All a buyer needed to do to make an informed choice was check feedback. Even when buyers could get negs, the feedback process was open and transparent and a buyer could see what was really what with a few mouse clicks.

eBay shot that in the buttocks, unfortunately. After they bought PayPal (which eBay previously decried as 'unsafe' when buyers preferred it over Billpoint, the eBay system) they needed a way to force it down everybody's throat to double their revenue stream, so the decided to convince buyers that they needed 'protection' from eBay sellers.

eBay trashed their users' reputations to make a money grab.

No more. No less.

[liq1000]

Exactly, and the seller would have the option to still take a return too if the buyer had a valid complaint, without being forced into it by eBay.