THE BASIC EYE POPPING RIDICULOUS OVERWHELMING FLAW IN THE EBAY SYSTEM!

[10meca]

Here it is in a nutshell:  The seller lists an item.  The buyer wants to return the item, but realizes that the only way he can return the item and get his money back is to blatantly lie.  The buyer blatantly lies.  The seller decides to stand up for himself and defend his name and his brand.  He therefore tells the truth to set the matter straight and defend his maligned reputation.  EBAY will then, like clockwork, rule in favor of the lying buyer and thus seal the fact that the seller will either lose his money or his reputation or both simply by being honest.  Nothing more needs to be said!

[justafemster]

And it's always been like this, well at least for the past 20 years.  

Sometimes you can shame a buyer into changing their reason for return, but that's rare.  

[this*old*attic]

And? LOL.

Was protecting your maligned reputation and defending your brand worth it?

How much time and emotional outrage did the fight waste? To force the sale of a single item.

Pick your battles.

[luckythewinner]

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@10meca wrote:

Nothing more needs to be said!

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This has been true since 2008. Thousands of people before you have already said it, and thousands of people after you will continue to say it. And 160+ million eBay sellers will continue to sell here.

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@10meca wrote:

The seller decides to stand up for himself and defend his name and his brand.

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Sellers will almost always lose these cases. So the best way to actually defend your brand is to resolve the case so you don't get a defect.

[donsdetour]

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@10meca wrote:

Here it is in a nutshell:  The seller lists an item.  The buyer wants to return the item, but realizes that the only way he can return the item and get his money back is to blatantly lie.  The buyer blatantly lies.  The seller decides to stand up for himself and defend his name and his brand.  He therefore tells the truth to set the matter straight and defend his maligned reputation.  EBAY will then, like clockwork, rule in favor of the lying buyer and thus seal the fact that the seller will either lose his money or his reputation or both simply by being honest.  Nothing more needs to be said!

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Ebay has no idea what was sent: or what condition it was received in:

They have no idea what was returned, if anything and so on: And eBay do not care.

BUT they do have the money back guarantee that you as a seller agree to by using eBay to sell on.

[mr_lincoln]

@10meca   We've experienced a few dishonest Buyers over the years but I will point out that locally quite a few Shoplifters have been arrested and put in jail.  Currently the internet has no infrastructure to speak of to arrest and incarcerate bad guys and eBay is certainly not the only venue they operate on.  There are also many posts here on The Community involving dishonest Sellers so neither group (Buyers & Sellers) are immune to dishonest members.

eBay has improved some features to help Sellers cut their losses on bogus returns ... TRS Protections and Free Returns ... I use the latter on everything I sell but have only had to use the full benefits of that setting on a few occasions.   

It's also a challenge not to take it personally when it happens, you feel like you've been violated, not a good feeling.  But at the end of the day its just part of doing business either in person or on the internet.  

Really sorry you experienced that ... 

Regards,

Mr. L

[1tuna]

thats the way it been for a long time

its called return abuse and sellers are expected to take it

@10meca 

[glasser]

The MBG has outlived its usefulness. It was put in place to encourage people to buy online and overcome any fears they may have about ecommerce. That ship has sailed, and online buying is a fact of life for almost everyone.

The MBG is vulnerable to abuse, creates bureaucracy, and can leave both parties aggrieved.

eBay should move to the more standard practices of retailing and returns.

Everything is returnable.  Sellers can decide to have returns where they pay shipping, or the buyer pays shipping (or maybe discounted shipping).  If a buyer requests a return, the seller also has the option of refunding without the actual return of the item or negotiating a partial refund.

Refunds are not issued until the buyer returns the item and the seller verifies item has been received.

That's the way 99% of all online retailers operate.

This will eliminate all the nonsense around refunds for items that are never returned. Will put buyers on notice that the expectation, subject to seller discretion, is that items must be returned to receive a refund.  If you send an empty box back to Amazon you are not getting a refund. If you send a box to the same zip code as an online retailer and they never receive it you are not getting refund.  In most cases, refunds take weeks to process. They are not immediate.

[gracieallen01]

Hmmmm, you noticed. 

Just side notes - it isn't ebay's money so why would they care?  And, it would cost them money to be 'fair' about returns.

[4meca]

ie  You are saying lie so you don't get a defect.  Do you teach your kids to lie?

[donsdetour]

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@glasser wrote:

The MBG has outlived its usefulness. It was put in place to encourage people to buy online and overcome any fears they may have about ecommerce. That ship has sailed, and online buying is a fact of life for almost everyone.

The MBG is vulnerable to abuse, creates bureaucracy, and can leave both parties aggrieved.

eBay should move to the more standard practices of retailing and returns.

Everything is returnable.  Sellers can decide to have returns where they pay shipping, or the buyer pays shipping (or maybe discounted shipping).  If a buyer requests a return, the seller also has the option of refunding without the actual return of the item or negotiating a partial refund.

Refunds are not issued until the buyer returns the item and the seller verifies item has been received.

That's the way 99% of all online retailers operate.

This will eliminate all the nonsense around refunds for items that are never returned. Will put buyers on notice that the expectation, subject to seller discretion, is that items must be returned to receive a refund.  If you send an empty box back to Amazon you are not getting a refund. If you send a box to the same zip code as an online retailer and they never receive it you are not getting refund.  In most cases, refunds take weeks to process. They are not immediate.

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Well the average retailer selling on the internet has a 20 percent return this day an age.....

We even with the MBG we eBayers do not see such.

What you propose will for sure increase such returns.....

[simba6]

When eBay first started out, there was no protection at all.  eBay claimed they were just a venue.  Over time buyer protection was slowly added.  Such as the program that once required a letter on letter head from an expert on the item to say it was not as described.  Yea, lets find an expert on my little pony  toys complete with letter head. 

As time went on the buyer protection became usable and did start to protect buyers.  The problem is it kept getting "stronger" to the point of hurting sellers and inviting abuses.

[luckythewinner]

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@4meca wrote:

ie  You are saying lie so you don't get a defect.  Do you teach your kids to lie?

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My kids understand that holding your nose and accepting a questionable return in the course of running a business is not the same as "being taught to lie".

The Straw Man Fallacy
This fallacy occurs when your opponent over-simplifies your argument (i.e., setting up a "straw man") to make it easier to attack or refute. Instead of fully addressing your actual argument, speakers present a superficially similar - but ultimately not equal - version of your real stance, helping them create the illusion of easily defeating you.

[pburn]

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@4meca wrote:

ie  You are saying lie so you don't get a defect.  Do you teach your kids to lie?

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@4meca 

How did you get that out of luckythewinner's post? 

P.S. Did you just lose 6 mecas from the time you started this thread? You're down from 10 mecas to 4 mecas! That's a pretty rapid rate of decline! 😉

[iart]

I see this complaint over and over and over again on these boards and never an answer to my question:

How else should eBay handle it?

Always side with the seller? Flip a coin? Hire an army of workers (thus increasing fees) to investigate each case and listen to he said/she said arguments 40 hours a week?

How?