eBay

dtexley3 · ‎06-06-2018

Pasting in the 2 comments for clairity.

in reply to 06-06-2018 02:34:16 PM

@mam98031 wrote:
Regarding the Summer Seller Update.

Ebay’s justification for these auto returns appears to be very skewed as it appears to me they are assuming / trying to imply that the majority of sellers allow an open Return Request to sit without response until just before each deadline date arrives. I personally find that insulting. I take far better care of my customers than that.

I speak for myself and on EVERY single RR [return request] I have ever had, my customer hears from me in far less than 24 hours after they open the RR. And usually with a resolution to whatever issue is at hand. Whether that is to accept the return or offer a different solution. I have NEVER taken a week to get the details of a RR worked out to my customer’s satisfaction.

Now certainly when a BUYER is to return the item it frequently happens that they take full advantage of the 5 days allowed to do so. But that isn’t the seller doing that, it is the buyer. The buyer is in control. ONLY the timeline for a Seller’s requirements on the RRs are being shortened.

So to me, Ebay’s reasoning that this has been done to shorten the process time is simply misleading. It appears to me that Ebay was/is just trying to state a reason that most will buy and that the real reason is just to make it appear to be a better system for buyers to get their money back quicker. When in reality it does not speed up the process. Unless Ebay wants to shorten the time the buyer has to ship the item back too. They have shortened the seller’s response time, why not shorten the buyer’s too if it is actually Ebay’s desire to shorten the turnaround of returns?

If it is really Ebay’s intention to NOT penalize sellers for unwarranted SNADs, then Ebay needs to give us a vehicle in which to accurately resolve falsely filed SNADs.

It also appears to me from what I currently see on my dashboard that BRRs are represented in the rates on the dashboard without distinction from a SNAD. So that makes me ask, is Ebay going to be holding BRRs against sellers too in the stat evals starting in September?

Hi @mam98031 - the intent is definitely not to leave you feeling rebuked or insulted. Auto-acceptance of returns where appropriate is designed to make things quick and painless for everyone involved. If a request is opened within your stated return window, we'd expect you to accept it regardless of the reason or waiting time. By streamlining this process we're eliminating an unnecessary waiting period that prolongs the entire experience for you and your customers. Shortening the amount of time a buyer has to get the item back to you does't improve the buyer's experience, which is ultimately why we are automating acceptance.

Returns opened for buyer remorse reasons will not be counted against you in your performance. Currently the returns window is tracking all opened returns. A more applicable screen should be implemented by the Fall.

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Message 55 of 57

in reply to 06-06-2018 02:42:09 PM

@tunicaslot wrote:
There has been some discussion about the upcoming metrics.

Question #1 - What date will this be put in place? Will it be 9/20 - when evaluations are done?

Question #2 - Is the additional 4% penalty for going over 1% on SNAD returns per category or will it affect all your cateories. Ex - collectibles - .4 SNAD return rate / clothing 1/4% return rate. So will that 4% additional FVFs also be applied to any collectibles you sell?

Question #3 - When a seller has successfully won an SNAD case as buyer's remorse - why is that still being counted in the metrics as an SNAD and works against them? Many of us, before the change in April. successfully fought an SNAD as the buyer admitted in messages that they wanted to return for a fit issue but they then opened the case as an SNAD so as not to pay return shipping. We have called and had CS look at the message and have had those cases closed in our favor.

Hi @tunicaslot! Answers to your questions below:

1. This process will begin in September. However we do not have a specific date at this point in time.

2. The additional 4% is applied on a per-category basis. So if you are over in Clothing, but not collectibles, you would see the 4% on clothing items, but not on collectibles.

3. Currently this metric is looking at returns being opened - not the outcomes.

Member of the Grumpy Old Man crew

dtexley3 · ‎06-06-2018

So now, my comments:

It's nice to have you SAY that the metrics will be fixed to only count SNADs in the fall. HOWEVER, eBay currently has a very poor reputation for following through on statements like this in implementation.

If eBay wants sellers to have an acceptable level of confidence in the new metrics, update the seller metrics and get the RIGHT numbers showing correctly FIRST, before the new metrics take effect.

If this means that the implmentation of the metrics needs to be delayed, that should be pushed up to the PTB sooner rather than later.

Get the Seller metrics display fixed, give us time to adjust to the new expectations, and give eBay itself time to fix any isses BEFORE sanctioning sellers and then finding the metrics being used are not being handled correctly.

Member of the Grumpy Old Man crew

tunicaslot · ‎06-06-2018

TY for the thread!

I find it odd that they announce a big change for seller metrics but don't have a start date. You now have seller's upset and there is enough anger with the glitches and slow sales we are experiencing.

I'm grateful it was clarified that the increase would only be to the category where the return SNAD rate goes over the limit - but am super PO'd that SNADs are counted when they are filed vs when they are closed. Ebay knows there is a problem with false SNADs and it isn't something new - but something that has been happening for years.

This study is from 2013 - but return rates in the clothing category have increased since then.

Here's information about a study by the University of Regensburg: E-commerce: why and how often customers sent stuff back [survey]

It shows that fashion has a very high return rate. 48 % of e-commerces say that they have a return rate of between 25 and 50 %.

ebbyisme · ‎06-06-2018

2. The additional 4% is applied on a per-category basis. So if you are over in Clothing, but not collectibles, you would see the 4% on clothing items, but not on collectibles.

WOW... THIS is going to affect many more sellers than first thought....

I offer 60 free returns on one ID and someone still filed a false SNAD.... if was a category I don't sell a lot in so out of 9 items sold I have 1 false SNAD.

This will have a few impacts on sellers.

1. Avoiding selling items in categories they don't usually sell in, especially after a SNAD and due to low numbers sold having to pay 40% more (4% increase on 10% or lower FVFs is a 40% increase) in fees applied to future sales. Which means less selection and variety for buyers.

2. More fees from a lot of sellers. if you normally sell in collectibles, and have no SNAD returns those numbers won't make up for the SNAD for clothing and household items.... so for two categories you will pay higher fees because the category metrics are separated. So if you have 2 SNADs and 1000 sales, if all numbers are computed together you would be well below the line.... but with categories separated = the 1 SNAD in clothing out of 10 sales and 1 SNAD out of household items and you will have to pay higher fees in two categories when your overall SNAD may be much lower than a seller who has all sales in one category who pays no higher fees...

3. Which leads to pigeon holing sellers into one or two main categories or paying higher fees.... which leads to less variety.

4. Some of the things I list can realistically be listed in two or three different categories.... and I see things in the wrong categories often.... which some sellers may resort to these to avoid higher fees.

There is just a whole host of consequences to this that many may not be considering....

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bubbleman2010 · ‎06-06-2018

Its always best to use real examples when explaining something. Last fall I listed 6 10KGF service pinbacks. Buyer asked do you combine shipping? Yes no problem he purchases all 6 I sent a combined invoice he pays one total I ship all 6 together. He files a SNAD because they weren't 14KT gold like he thought. I have no choice but to accept the return and since he lied about what he purchased I also had to pick up the return shipping. My collectibles return rate went to 4.79% I have 7 total which the 6 were each counted seperately. That now results in my collectible FVFs going to 14% $18.00 worth of merchandise that I was punished for due to the buyer lying. My buyers will be picking up the extra cost of FVFs sellers have no one else to pass the cost of doing business to except the buyers..

bubbleman2010 · ‎06-06-2018

In clothing last year I sold 7 items I'm carrying one SNAD which puts me at 14.29% return rate. The item a brand new pair of sunglasses new in package won in a contest by me and to teenagery for my liking. I listed them and the fellow that bought them from his photo looked to be around mid 50s. Your right in comes a SNAD for doesn't work again buyer lies to keep from paying return shipping. Once back I refund and relist and sell the next week,but my future buyers will be the one to incure the new FVFs not me....

flyinhawaiiangirl · ‎06-06-2018

So in theory, which would cost more? Free return and no snad, or bad percentage based on low items in a category and paying a higher FVF? One you pay return shipping, and one you pay 400% more in fees?

bubbleman2010 · ‎06-07-2018

Just because you have free shipping it doesn't offset a SNAD if a buyer selects one of the option as the reason for return its counted....

where*you*crowin · ‎06-07-2018

Which leads to pigeon holing sellers into one or two main categories or paying higher fees.... which leads to less variety.

Don't forget that ebay has given itself permission to change the category despite what you have chosen. If you list in collectibles where you pay 10% and ebay changes your category to home & garden where you pay 14%, they have enriched themselves by an additional 4% at your expense.

sandmansales · ‎06-07-2018

2. The additional 4% is applied on a per-category basis. So if you are over in Clothing, but not collectibles, you would see the 4% on clothing items, but not on collectibles.

So this company sets up a platform enticing buyers to be entitled, careless and irresponsible in their buying and return habits with absolutely no consequences for their actions. Even counting fake SNADS as SNADs now.

Then hits sellers with a 4% money grab, masked as a "punishment" when buyers are simply doing exactly what ebay's very platform and business model has programmed them to do.

This is definitely in the top 10 of underhanded and reprehensible things ebay has done.

~Why be a second rate version of someone else when you can be a first rate version of yourself~

dtexley3 · ‎06-07-2018

@ebbyisme wrote:
2. The additional 4% is applied on a per-category basis. So if you are over in Clothing, but not collectibles, you would see the 4% on clothing items, but not on collectibles.

WOW... THIS is going to affect many more sellers than first thought....

I offer 60 free returns on one ID and someone still filed a false SNAD.... if was a category I don't sell a lot in so out of 9 items sold I have 1 false SNAD.

Somewhere I read the FVF increase for SNAD doesn't apply until you've sold a set number of items in that category. Of course I can't find the thread or the link this morning.

Member of the Grumpy Old Man crew

ymeagainlord · ‎06-07-2018

Very good point. I (was trying to ) forgot about that new little wrinkle where they give themselves permission to move your listings to what they consider the 'relevant' category (even if it incurs additional fees)

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whatmorefabric · ‎06-07-2018

I have free returns and free return shipping. Sometimes inexperienced sewers don't realize what they are buying or that double brushed means fuzzy. It is ok with me to take it back. I sell a very different type of product.

However, Half of my SNAD are for buyers wishing to get all their money back or they did not understand that clicking on SNAD does not mean that the fabric will not work on their project, Or that taffeta is a certain weave and not a type of fiber, or that silk as lots of different hands. Hands means how the fabric feels.

I had 2 SNAD for the same fabric that went to two sisters. I had a ruler on the fabric, a dime on the fabric an email back to them that the motif was 6 inches long and STILL got a SNAD because the motif was too big. Perhaps you would like a picture of my SNAD where the customer cut 3 hearts out of the fabric than returned what was left. How about The quilt shop that needed a certain rare fabric in the black color for a customer and than claimed SNAD and returned the fabric in the blue color.

Those who do not take returns often have unhappy customers who do nothing that will not count against them.

Ebay pedaled this return policy. Ebay wanted all buyers to buy into free returns. They have found out that there are a lot of returns and they cost money. I could have told them that.

abfabvintage · ‎06-07-2018

@ymeagainlord

Hey, but when are you notified they moved your item to a different category:at the time you list, or do you have to look at your items everyday to be sure they didn't move it? And if they did move it, can go in and do a revise and move it back to where it belongs. And does this only pertain if you are in the product catalogue which I don't use. Sorry if I sound dense on this.

I ain't got the brains to make this up (Fantastic Beasts)

tealt · ‎06-07-2018

You brought up some points for me to consider...

1. Avoiding selling items in categories they don't usually sell in, especially after a SNAD

4. Some of the things I list can realistically be listed in two or three different categories.... and I see things in the wrong categories often.... which some sellers may resort to these to avoid higher fees.

There is just a whole host of consequences to this that many may not be considering....

Right now I have only 2 returns (legit SNADs), both in Pottery & Glass.

These 2 SNADs will not drop off by September, as I have a 12-month look back, and eBay will be applying the new Returns standard retroactively.

I have inventory which could be properly sold across 5-6 top level categories.

If eBay decides to charge me 14% FVF in Pottery & Glass, I will list in House & Garden or another appropriate category.

If I were to receive a SNAD in a category that I rarely sell in (and thus getting an automatic high return %), I won't list any more items in that category for a year.

I think you are quite right. There could be sellers who will be able to devise ways to avoid a 14% FVF. I'll be one of them.