eBay

frugality_inc · ‎08-19-2021

I've been vocal on the forums, to the eBay product development team and numerous leadership members within eBay over the past two years. eBay still continues to milk promoted listings at the cost of sacrificing quality control on the platform. This does not align with eBay’s recent approach to higher value buyers that continue to come back to the platform from Jamie Iannone’s comments during eBay’s Q2 2021 earnings call.

I raised the same issues described below to @jordan_sweetnam in 2019 under the ‘Ask me Anything’ forum post https://community.ebay.com/t5/Ask-Me-Anything-Jordan-Sweetnam/Promoted-Listings-are-Ruining-Quality-...

We were told that new changes would be announced. The only thing that was announced was restrictions for ‘Below Standard Sellers’ during the Fall 2020 update. This only applies to a very small portion of overall sellers on eBay and completely avoided the issues I brought up.

Since raising concerns with the eligibility of promoted listings in 2019, it has progressively gotten worse to the point where it’s a pay to win system with quality cast aside. I still see numerous sellers utilizing promoted listings that have below 97% positive feedback, ship with no tracking, ship with an extended handling time, are not top rated, higher than average prices and even some shipping from China.

I am sick and tired of eBay funneling the majority of traffic to sellers that do not meet the standards customers expect. Sellers that have busted their behind to build quality and value into their selling practices should be rewarded for that with increased visibility, even with promoted listings if they’d choose to.

The most common practice I see is where sellers do not ship with tracking via USPS flats. The majority of the sellers I see utilizing this strategy have below 97% feedback and just about all feedback mentioning slow shipping, no tracking, and even arrived with postage due. These sellers pump the promoted listing rates to a ridiculous ad rate where it’s unprofitable to compete without changing to the same shipping practices they have. Why should I have to compete with these sellers abusing promoted listings and providing a subpar shipping experience? Once again, pay to win system at the cost of quality to the customer.

The top of search results is littered with promoted listings slots. You cannot see your listing without scrolling down on both desktop and the mobile app. Why do sellers have to pay just to be seen by all buyers searching for a given term?

I made this forum post to yet again bring up these issues and hold eBay accountable. I challenge eBay to make meaningful changes that sustain long term growth and produce more high value buyers that continue to return to the platform.

From a seller that started on this platform in 2017 with $800 and will have their third 7-figure year, it is clear the platform in its current state is not sustainable for future growth. The current state of eBay is not the eBay I used to know and enjoy. It has got to the point where it’s not worth investing into this platform knowing I’m at a complete disadvantage in the way eBay has designed their traffic flow to listings in a pay to win system.

fashunu4eeuh · ‎08-19-2021

"From a seller that started on this platform in 2017 with $800 and will have their third 7-figure year, it is clear the platform in its current state is not sustainable for future growth.,,"

I am confused by this statement. What is clear is your success, and I doubt Promoted Listings is preventing buyers from finding your listings, as you seem to be doing well. You apparently have had sustained growth on this platform, so I am unclear why you are up in arms about PL. Retail is a pay to play world.

As for underperforming sellers having access to Promoted Listings, it states in the policy that "Promoted Listings is available to Above Standard and Top Rated sellers with recent sales activity." * So while you argue that subpar sellers should not have access to PL, eBay agrees with you.

You likely are aware that Feedback scores can be arbitrary and as a result, eBay no longer uses it as a measure of sellers' standing on eBay. So while you may note that some sellers with 97% or below still have access to the benefits of PL, do you advocate that seller metrics should include Feedback as a benchmark of seller performance? Looking at your Feedback, I notice you have 19 revised as well as a number of negatives and neutrals peppered throughout. With your volume, it is not unusual to have many, but why bring it up at all?

"I challenge eBay to make meaningful changes that sustain long term growth and produce more high value buyers that continue to return to the platform." I think you would do well to mind the store and solve the issues of unhappy buyers there, so that they will also return to the platform.

*https://pages.ebay.com/seller-center/listing-and-marketing/promoted-listings.html

frugality_inc · ‎08-19-2021

When sales compared to this time last year are down over 50% and traffic is down substantially, even with factoring in shopping patterns in the current environment, yes there's proof the platform is not sustainable for future growth. You argue that I had sustained growth, I agree with you that I had sustained growth before the problems with promoted listings grew.

"Retail is a pay to play world." Ah yes, paying 40% plus between FVF and promoted listing fees of the listing price is a great environment. I enjoy competing against sellers that abuse USPS flats with no tracking that arrive with postage due.

"As for underperforming sellers having access to Promoted Listings, it states in the policy that "Promoted Listings is available to Above Standard and Top Rated sellers with recent sales activity." * So while you argue that subpar sellers should not have access to PL, eBay agrees with you. "

eBay added that change nearly one year after @jordan_sweetnam stated that they would be discussing possible changes. That change did not diminish the problems that still occur.

Since you'd like to get into my feedback and off topic, let's observe basic math. Trailing 12 months I have 123,629 transactions with a trailing 12 month total of 159 negatives. That's 0.128% negative to transaction rate or in simpler terms, one negative for every 777 transactions. Sure, I'd like that number to be 0 negatives, but it's nearly impossible to please everyone, even after providing a customer oriented solution.

"So while you may note that some sellers with 97% or below still have access to the benefits of PL, do you advocate that seller metrics should include Feedback as a benchmark of seller performance?"

You are assuming things that I did not state. I simply stated there needs to be higher standards for promoted listings. There are numerous things outside of feedback and that aren't required in seller standards that need to be addressed. Feedback simply confirms the problematic experiences those sellers continually provide. Where there is smoke there's fire.

gsf_tech · ‎08-20-2021

Perhaps I'm going at it from a different point of view, but I agree eBay seems to be going in a direction hostile to their legacy.

As a seller, the 'Promoted listings' feature feels like a real cash grab, where listing quality is no longer prime, and it's simply a matter of pitting sellers against each other for who's willing to bribe eBay more. I bet that's an addiction for eBay, just as it was for Google (gone are the days of ads in the top spots being considered dirty, to now everything above the fold being an ad).

As a buyer, I don't know if it's just me, a covid thing or something else, but the variety and price competition has gone down drastically. I used to do product research on Amazon, and then come to eBay once I know what I want to buy it for less. Since Managed Payments, for cheap generic items or supplies either Amazon or AliExpress are invariably cheaper, and there's little incentive to buy on Ebay. Before at least we had eBay Bucks to sweeten the deal all else equal, and even that's gone.

I really miss the more wild west and meritocratic days of 2000-2016. This new saccharine and inflexible experience all around is getting tiresome, and worse. eBay certainly isn't going to die, but it isn't the fun, individualistic place it used to be.

frugality_inc · ‎08-21-2021

I agree.

eBay has been known for the site you go to for the deal and even touted as such by executives in the past. Now it's like eBay is surrendering any core competencies that remained.

Promoted listings offer zero benefit to the buyer. All at the cost of promoting listings that often times do not offer any value to the buyer or seller, but only eBay. I'm all for businesses making money, but when you taper with the core values of the site, that's crossing the line.

Enjoy the managed decline.

luckythewinner · ‎08-21-2021

@frugality_inc wrote:
You cannot see your listing without scrolling down on both desktop and the mobile app. Why do sellers have to pay just to be seen by all buyers searching for a given term?

You can't scroll to see everyone's listings because eBay stops the search results after about 10,000 listings.

A search for "gold necklace" finds 1.38 million listings. Last I checked, only the first 10,000 of those will actually show in a search. After scrolling past a certain point, eBay will tell you that you cannot see any more and to refine your search.

This means that out of those 1.38 million listings, 99.3% of those listings will never be seen in that search.

The reason for this is simple - because no human can view 1.38 million listings and make sense of them. Even at one second per listing, it would take a buyer 383 hours to review them. And while they are doing that, tens of thousands of them will end and tens of thousands of new ones will be listed.

Your request to "just to be seen by all buyers" is a practical impossibility in many, many cases.

frugality_inc · ‎08-22-2021

You're missing the point.

Sellers that have worked their way up to the top of search results and hold the top organic slots are not seen by buyers at first glance on both desktop and app. Those buyers have to scroll down just to begin seeing the top organic slots.

Many buyers do not go past the first few search results, resulting in less traffic if you do not pay eBay even more fees. You have to pay just to be seen by all buyers for a given term.

Problem is compounded when sellers abuse USPS flats with no tracking. They pump up the ad rate to ridiculously unprofitable levels that make it impossible to capture ad slots even if you wanted to pay for promoted listings while shipping with tracking as customers expect in today's eCommerce world. More money for eBay while sacrificing quality to the customer.

postingid7659 · ‎08-22-2021

The problem is eBay's search for years has been unable to handle the traffic. Even when I have the only item of it's kind currently listed, with something showing a decent sell-through in the past and priced in the same range, I get a lot of listings ending with no sale. When I do get sales they will all be clustered in one region.

Also, OP probably should not compare 2021 to 2020 but to 2019. 2020 was an exception as people were pushed to remain home over the covid nonsense, so they were spending more time online and buying more there. My sales were up considerably all the way through March then went off a cliff, down 50% or more over 90 day periods. I'm getting rather tired of listing items for less than the last sold for and not getting any bids despite the previous one selling with more than 10 bids for a higher price. I have to list items at the price I want and list them repeatedly and even then sometimes no sale, I have a couple things I first listed in June 2020 that have relisted weekly since without a sale. They're not overpriced, yet they go nowhere.

popblox · ‎08-22-2021

@postingid7659 wrote:

Also, OP probably should not compare 2021 to 2020 but to 2019. 2020 was an exception as people were pushed to remain home over the covid nonsense, so they were spending more time online and buying more there. My sales were up considerably all the way through March then went off a cliff, down 50% or more over 90 day periods. I'm getting rather tired of listing items for less than the last sold for and not getting any bids despite the previous one selling with more than 10 bids for a higher price. I have to list items at the price I want and list them repeatedly and even then sometimes no sale, I have a couple things I first listed in June 2020 that have relisted weekly since without a sale. They're not overpriced, yet they go nowhere.

Don't forget that many (so many) unemployed individuals figured out how to become self-employed business owners on eBay while quarantined in their homes, with nothing to do except try to figure out how to pay rent.

I'm down 50-60% from last year too, but it isn't because people aren't buying and it isn't because of PL - it's because I have 20 times the competition.

flyingmvp · ‎08-22-2021

You are right and your points are valid but currently, the Promoted Listings are a great money making tool for bringing the $$$ to Ebay and that's the bottom line, nothing else matters.

years of hard work, competitive prices, good service and positive feedback are meaningless,

Quality is not a factor.

Ebay management does not care or think beyond the present, their stock is doing fine, the board and share holders are happy.

Past or current CEO's and the rest of management will move on sooner then later to their next gig in the next company and leave Ebay behind.

flyingmvp · ‎08-22-2021

@popblox wrote:
@postingid7659 wrote:

Also, OP probably should not compare 2021 to 2020 but to 2019. 2020 was an exception as people were pushed to remain home over the covid nonsense, so they were spending more time online and buying more there. My sales were up considerably all the way through March then went off a cliff, down 50% or more over 90 day periods. I'm getting rather tired of listing items for less than the last sold for and not getting any bids despite the previous one selling with more than 10 bids for a higher price. I have to list items at the price I want and list them repeatedly and even then sometimes no sale, I have a couple things I first listed in June 2020 that have relisted weekly since without a sale. They're not overpriced, yet they go nowhere.

I'm down 50-60% from last year too, but it isn't because people aren't buying and it isn't because of PL - it's because I have 20 times the competition.

The added competition due to the Pandemic is not an excuse.

If you offer the right products with best prices, fast handling and shipping times + good costumer service and good positive feedback's you should be the top or one of the top sellers in your selling categories.

even with the increase with unemployed individuals that suddenly found Ebay.

The current Ebay reality is that the more you "pay to play", (even if you are a terrible seller) the more traffic and resulted sales will come.

popblox · ‎08-22-2021

@flyingmvp wrote:

I'm down 50-60% from last year too, but it isn't because people aren't buying and it isn't because of PL - it's because I have 20 times the competition.

The added competition due to the Pandemic is not an excuse.

If you offer the right products with best prices, fast handling and shipping times + good costumer service and good positive feedback's you should be the top or one of the top sellers in your selling categories.

Excuse for what? Being down in sales? You're suggesting that having 20 times more sellers offering the same items you are has zero impact on sales? That's rhetorical - I already know the answer, but I appreciate your opinion on the matter.

I am the top seller, in all my products. I know what affects my business and I know how to analyze it, but thanks for your feedback 🤗

luckythewinner · ‎08-22-2021

@frugality_inc wrote:
You're missing the point.

I didn't miss the point - you did not state it clearly. I think this is what you really meant to say:

Why do ~~sellers~~ the couple of sellers whose listings are at the very top of organic search have to pay just to be seen by all buyers searching for a given term?