Penalty on Losing Dispute with Scammer!

[destrucity_shop]

I recently lost a dispute that I opened on a NAD case with a potential scammer and then was charged a $20 penalty fee. It's well known that ebay typically sides with scam buyers (even with preponderance scam evidence) but the main take away here is that ebay charges a $20 fee when disputing and losing a claim (which I was not aware of). 

I sold a book for $23. Item was delivered with tracking. Two days later, the messaged me claiming to not have recieved book, said they checked with neighbors, but package was absent (highly unusual though not impossible, but in thousands of transactions, this has only happened once where could be verified); buyer then asked for "the next step." I told them I had fullfilled terms of sale, and there was no next step on my part, since tracking showed delivered.  Buyer had very limited ebay history, amounting to 10 purchases or so. I was skeptical about buyers claims, so I blocked the buyer. Shortly afterwards, the buyer opened a "Not as Described" claim (with no details about item condition). I disputed the claim, and took screenshots of the buyer's messages claiming not to have recieved item, yet now changing their tune claiming INAD, and sent those pix, explaining buyers lack of ebay history, contrasted with my 10+ years of excellent ebay service. Not surprisingly, ebay sided with the (probably) scammer. This did not really upset me as value of item was not great. Of course I could have accepted a return, but I was mostly curious if ebay would side with me considering the evidence, or come to a compromise. However, I was unaware that losing a disputed claim would result in a $20 fee, which was more upsetting. Lesson learned. 

[brightlightbookseller]

Blocking them was neither necessary or helpful, as they didn't do anything directly wrong.  They're probably correct, it was probably stolen off their porch or something.  That's not a reason to have to refund, as it's their responsibility to have a safe place for delivery, but blocking them is likely what prompted them to go to their payment institution instead of just filing an INR claim on eBay (or they didn't know how, who knows).

Neither does anyone involved care about who has been on eBay longer.  Buyers get the same protections no matter whether they joined on day 1 or today.  INAD claims are nearly impossible to win in almost every case, unless they claim something clearly shown in the listing that you can point to (such as saying that it's not as described for a missing dust jacket on a book, when the listing shows that it did not have one to begin with), and even that's a long shot.

Point is, you handled this poorly, they might have been scamming you, lesson learned should be to handle things more professionally in the future but you might still not prevail.

[kensgiftshop]

Ebay didn't side with the buyer, the buyers bank did.

Once they go to their payment source, not much Ebay will/can do, it's up to the buyers bank.

[albertabrightalberta]

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@destrucity_shop wrote:

I sold a book for $23. Item was delivered with tracking. Two days later, the buyer claimed to not have recieved book, said they checked with neigbors, but package was absent (highly unusual though not impossible, but in thousands of transactions, this has only happened once where could be verified); buyer then asked me for "the next step." I told them I had fullfilled terms of sale, and there was no next step on my part.  

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@destrucity_shop 

You lost the dispute because you handled the dispute incorrectly. 

When the buyer opened a claim for non-receipt, instead of telling them that you "fullfilled terms of sale, and there was no next step on my part," you should have told the buyer to go to the order and open a case for "item not received." 

Once you receive notice of the case, you would have (or should have) responded iwth the tracking number showing delivery. The case would have closed in your favor. 

@destrucity_shop wrote:

Shortly afterwards, the buyer opened a "Not as Described" claim (with no details about item condition). I disputed the claim, and took screenshots of the buyer's messages claiming not to have recieved item, yet now changing their tune claiming INAD, and sent them along explaining buyers lack of ebay history, contrasted with my 10+ years of excellent ebay service. Not surprisingly, ebay sided with the scammer.

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I'm not sure how the buyer could claim "NAD" if he didn't receive it but if that's what he did, you can't deny the claim. If you refuse the return, you will lose the claim every time. 

[tobaccocardyahoo]

A buyer is almost always going to win a credit card issuer payment dispute for porch piracy. Failing to refund before the credit card issuer rules against you costs you that $20 fee, and leads to Ebay not refunding Final Value Fees.

Ebay is discouraging you from losing chargeback disputes, or even having them.

[12345jamesstamps]

Getting charged $20.00...that is a dispute usually with the buyer's banking source...not eBay.

Those are hard to fight.

eBay usually steps aside and you are basically dealing with the buyer's bank. 

I have seen that eBay sometimes will reverse the $20...did you perhaps ask eBay about that?

[destrucity_shop]

I don't think buyer can open a case for 'item not recieved' since tracking showed "delivered." or am I wrong? So they went with tne next option which was Not as Described.  I disputed their NAD claim, since they first wrote me claining not to have recieved then item, and their NAD had no description of problem with item condition nor pictures on their part. I wanted to see how ebay would respond. They refunded the buyer completely, but added a dispute fee.  

[destrucity_shop]

I paid the fee not the buyer, since I was the one who disputed the NAD claim. Basically, I asked eBay to step in and the be judge.  

 Tobaccocardyahoo is right: Ebay is discouraging us from opening disputes on claims by adding losers fees. 

I'm not really venting or complaining, just try to help others know how to handling claims. 

[stephenmorgan]

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@12345jamesstamps wrote:

Getting charged $20.00...that is a dispute usually with the buyer's banking source...not eBay.

Those are hard to fight.

eBay usually steps aside and you are basically dealing with the buyer's bank. 

I have seen that eBay sometimes will reverse the $20...did you perhaps ask eBay about that?

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That Dispute Fee is strickly a Fee for eBay.  I do believe they charge the Fee to discourage Sellers from fighting Charge Backs.

Dispute fee

If you are found responsible for a disputed amount as per eBay policies (e.g., chargeback), we charge a $20.00 dispute fee, excluding sales tax, for each dispute.

https://www.ebay.com/help/selling/fees-credits-invoices/selling-fees?id=4822#section7

[albertabrightalberta]

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@destrucity_shop wrote:

I don't think buyer can open a case for 'item not recieved' since tracking showed "delivered." or am I wrong? Can a buyer open item not recieved claim after tracking showed delivered? As far as the INAD I simply disputed their claim, since there was no description of item nor pictures on their part, I wanted to see how ebay would respond. They refunded the buyer completely, but added a dispute fee.  

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Yes, they can open it but won't win.

And that's the best kind of dispute for a seller to get and is an easy win. 

Just respond to it with tracking. (The few times I've had such claims, in addition to inputting the tracking number, I also add in the notes section that "according to USPS tracking number (fill in blank), the item was delivered on (date) at (time) to zip code (Fill in the blank). 

[destrucity_shop]

This was a matter limited to the eBay platform and it's claims process.  Bank was not involved. Ebay refunded buyer from my funds, and the dispute loser fee probably the same. 

[destrucity_shop]

I agree with most of what you're saying. But they opened an Item Not as Described case after claiming to not have recieved item. I block problem buyers to prevent them from buying anymore from me or sending unessery messages; terms of  sale had been fulfilled since tracking was marked delivered. I expected to lose the dispute, but was curious exactly what the end result would be. The penalty was a surprise. On the whole it was a learning experience. Just a bump on the reselling road. Would have better to accept the return instead of dispute, but I will continue to block any problem buyers.  I also "report" problem buyers so there's a record of their misdeeds if they keep troubling other sellers, who may also report them. 

[bonjourami]

Anytime you ask Ebay to step in, they will rule in favor of the buyer, as they see you as a non responsive seller. Im sure you also received a defect too, you can check that on your dashboard.

[12345jamesstamps]

Guess I worded it wrong or hard to understand.

A dispute with a bank involued-eBay charges a $20. fee...because it's a dispute with a bank.

Just disputes with eBay and not a dispute with a buyer's bank...correct me if I am wrong...eBay does not charge $20. without getting involved with buyer's bank.

[stephenmorgan]

I believe you are correct.

I read it as eBay only charges the Dispute Fee if seller disagrees and eBay has to forward their response (fight the dispute) to the buyer's bank and the seller loses the charge back then the seller is penalized $20 because of their challenge.