Materially Different Buyer opened electronics and now doesn't work

[holsteinatlanta]

I sold a CD and Tape player as used but working.  I tested the CD player and the tape player and both worked fine.  So as I was driving to FedEx I got the cord caught in the door and it got cut off.  I told the buyer the cord is no longer attached.  They said send me a $30 discount and I'll take it.  So I did.  Now they tried to self repair it and made it inoperable.  The sent photos of it open and taken apart.  They said there is water damage inside.  Now I do not know if there  was water damage inside or not because I never opened it.  I tested it but never took it apart.  Why would I.  Now buyer is claiming SNAD.  I think once the buyer takes it apart its game over for their claim.  I'm goiing to offer them a refund of the cost of the item and they would have to pay shipping plus the $30 I paid FedEx to wrap it.  I paid FedEx to fragile it so that it would be perfectly wrapped and insured.  I could file a FedEx claim but I think the buyer messed it up.  What do you think ebay would say

[dqdistribution]

Did they open a return via eBay or Paypal? (You said SNAD, typically term used in Paypal and INAD for eBay)

If they opened a INAD return via eBay, then you owe them a return shipping label, and full refund.

If they opened a SNAD return via Paypal, they have to pay for shipping back to you, then you owe them a full refund.

You can't deduct what you paid Fedex to wrap it. You also admitted YOU damaged the product, and what you sent them wasn't what was described the listing. Regardless if they said send it via discount, the transaction itself is defective.

Your best thing is just to accept and move on and write it off on your taxes.

[fab_finds4u]

What wouldxeBay do? eBay would refund and let them keep it if it's  escalated, and you get a defect for a case unresolved by the seller.

You can refund and save the money for return shipping the seller is responsible for when it's SNAD, and let them keep it; or you can issue a return label and refund when it's returned.   

[holsteinatlanta]

Customers are not allowed to open electronics and self repair.  The could have attached a new power cord to the back, but cannot open the cover to make their own adjustments

[mam98031]

I would contact Ebay.  You have proof they altered the item.  Make sure you give that proof to Ebay, don't just tell them it exists, you show them.  Your emails between you and the buyer too.

I would suggest that you contact Ebay for Business on Facebook or Twitter for the better trained CSRs.

Here are your options for contacting Ebay Customer Service.

https://twitter.com/askebay?lang=en

https://www.facebook.com/eBayForBusiness/


If when you use the link below you can only get to the Automated Assistant, type AGENT in the box and hit enter. You will then get more options.

https://www.ebay.com/help/contact_us?id=4002&st=10

[mam98031]

SNAD is usually used in Ebay.  But so is INAD.  Either one works.

If the buyer went through PayPal or directly through their Credit Card Company, it is a different type of notification the seller receives from Ebay telling them they have a Chargeback.  When we get notified of a Chargeback, we don't always know the reason the buyer filed.

NO, sellers do not have to accept returns from a buyer that has altered the item.  The first line of defense it to contact Ebay.

Allowing buyers to get away with this bad behavior just promotes it and encourages them to do it more.

[mam98031]

Condition of returns policy overview

Buyers may be liable for loss in value of the item if it's returned in a different condition from which it was received, or if the item is not packaged securely to prevent damage in shipment. In the event that an item is returned used or damaged, the seller might deduct the amount of loss from the buyer's refund.

This applies when the loss in value is due to handling of the goods which was not necessary for checking the condition, properties, or mode of operation.

Items that are returned after inspection through eBay Authenticity Guarantee will be sent back to the buyer, and a refund will not be issued, if the item is returned in a different condition from which it was received. Learn more about eBay Authenticity Guarantee.

Buyers who have a history of abusing the returns process may be subject to the consequences outlined in our Abusive buyer policy.

https://www.ebay.com/help/policies/member-behavior-policies/condition-returned-items-policy?id=4763

[dqdistribution]

SNAD isn't typically used on eBay because eBay's INAD is more loose.

No, the seller should have cancelled the transaction and absorbed the defect because he damaged the product before handing it off to the carrier.

What the buyer received was not what was listed and that is prior to altering the item. The buyer agreed to discount the item and fix, but the damage to the product was worse than listed. Water damage was also not listed.

This seller is at fault. And the buyer probably doesnt know how to handle this situation, but if it was me, I would be getting a full refund.

[fab_finds4u]

Isn't  that overview for returning items they no longer want?  

If a buyer files a not as described case and returns the wrong item or one in a different condition  (altered) the seller will still be be forced to refund in full.  If they don't  the buyer can let eBay know they didn't  refund in full and they'll get it.

[dqdistribution]

If you sell me chocolates, and it's sealed. I open it and take a bite, it's full of mold.

Should I not get refunded ? I altered the product.

I got a dvd that was sealed, but after opening it and playing it, it doesn't load. The product was altered should I not get a refund.

Just because an item is altered doesn't mean it voids the MBG.

And you are right, people do abuse it all the time for things they no longer want.

I think the altered policy that the other user mentioned to you, would apply for an item that isn't INAD.  If the buyer, opened a DvD and returned it open after watching it.

Since the seller admits the product was damaged during transporting it to carrier and can't say he has any idea if it had pre existing water damage that wasn't listed. I'd say this case should be in buyer favor.

[inhawaii]

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@mam98031 wrote:

I would contact Ebay.  You have proof they altered the item.  Make sure you give that proof to Ebay, don't just tell them it exists, you show them.  Your emails between you and the buyer too.

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I find that advice odd coming from an experienced seller like yourself.

Since when does ebay look at or consider "proof" in a INAD (damaged item) claim?

It would be great if they did, but they don't.

Well I guess no loss in asking.

My opinion/advice is to just refund the buyer for this item that is for sure damaged and may or may not have water damage and be done with it.  Why pay to have such an item shipped back to you? 

[johnrj1226]

Seriously doubt that an electrical cord would get cut off by closing a vehicle door.   There are gaps all the way around the door and rubber molding around the door opening and no sharp edges

[sextons-sweet-deals]

A lot going on here!

You tested and it worked. On your way to FedEx, the cord gets caught in door and cut off. That is a little hard to believe. Probably should have cancelled the order and either gotten the cord fixed or relist as for parts only. 

The buyer now knows they have you cornered for a $30 partial refund and now looks like a full refund, but for them to take apart the item and claim water damage inside is another issue. From what I remember, buyers cannot claim taking apart an item and then claim it does not work. 

Just a messed-up situation!

I have to add that I don't understand why you paid FedEx to pack and ship? Looks like you sell enough that you should be buying your own shipping supplies and purchasing / printing USPS labels at a discount. 

Good luck on this. 

[mam98031]

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@dqdistribution wrote:

SNAD isn't typically used on eBay because eBay's INAD is more loose.

No, the seller should have cancelled the transaction and absorbed the defect because he damaged the product before handing it off to the carrier.

What the buyer received was not what was listed and that is prior to altering the item. The buyer agreed to discount the item and fix, but the damage to the product was worse than listed. Water damage was also not listed.

This seller is at fault. And the buyer probably doesnt know how to handle this situation, but if it was me, I would be getting a full refund.

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I respect your opinion.  But if you review threads, most used SNAD more currently some sellers use INAD.

SNAD = Significantly not as described

INAD = Item not as Described

I'm not sure it really matters which you prefer to use.  They are however both used by sellers on Ebay to describe an Ebay Request for Return.

I never suggested that any seller file for a cancellation using a reason to get a defect when there is some sort of dispute opened whether it is on Ebay or a Chargeback.  When some type of dispute is opened, there is no reason for a seller to file for a Cancellation, just process the dispute.

The buyer said there was water damage.  IDK if that happened before or after the buyer received the item or if it was correct info to begin with.  But the fact remains the buyer altered the item.  That is the key point.

I respect your point of view.  Because I don't agree with you doesn't mean that your point of view isn't valid.  It only means we see it differently.

[mam98031]

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@fab_finds4u wrote:

Isn't  that overview for returning items they no longer want?  

If a buyer files a not as described case and returns the wrong item or one in a different condition  (altered) the seller will still be be forced to refund in full.  If they don't  the buyer can let eBay know they didn't  refund in full and they'll get it.

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That is not my experience.  The seller had nothing to do with altering the item, the buyer did.

As for the refund the seller gave them, that was BEFORE the claim was filed.  That does not count as if the seller only partially refunded them from an existing dispute.