I just got a chargeback notice from paypal for a 6 month old transaction.

[binderzz]

A buyer from almost 6 months ago (2 weeks short of 6 months, actually) has filed "item not received" with paypal. I got an email from paypal but there's nothing more on the paypal website (on my account page) I can find.

Yeah, he got it. The item ($160) was delivered long ago. The transaction information has rolled off and disappeared. I'm not even positive what the item was (I think it was probably a pair of Streamlight flashlights). I don't have a tracking number or other proof of delivery but I assume paypal has access to that, somehow.

What happens at the 6 month line? I assume the "buyer" has his eyes on both ebay and the paypal deadlines for filing complaints and he's trying to play both to his advantage?

It seems like every 3rd or 4th ebay transaction becomes a needless PITA.

[reallynicestamps]

Paypal allows 180 days from payment to Dispute transactions.

So do some credit cards by the way.

I don't have a tracking number or other proof of delivery but I assume paypal has access to that, somehow.

Well, that's why you have to keep records.

This and the possibility that you may have to declare your eBay profits on your taxes.

If you recorded the tracking number with Paypal, they still have it.

Look under Activity-> Past 30 Days-> dropdown menu to 2020  or more likely 2019. -> customer name-> Transaction Details.

Give the the tracking number and delivery date in the Dispute.

If this is a Not Received dispute that should end it.

If it is a Not As Described dispute, tell the disgruntled customer to return the item for a full refund.

DON'T PANIC!

Paypal requires the buyer to return their unwanted purchase with tracking. The Buyer pays, not you.

He has a pretty short window to do this.

And if he is scamming he won't and you win.

If he does return the item, and it is resellable, refund and resell.

If not, you can tell PP that and go on from there.

I assume the "buyer" has his eyes on both ebay and the paypal deadlines

The eBay deadline is 30 days after delivery or last estimated date for delivery. That is probably long past.

While the customer could also make a credit card chargeback, should the PP claim fail, very few cards allow more than the same 180 days that PP does.

Don't panic.

[cynthealee2]

ON Paypal You can go back till Jan of last year. And they have the tracking numbers in the transactions even if you printed your shipping label on eBay.*

Problem is USPS recycles those numbers so plugging in the old tracking number into USPS isn't going to help you today.*

I dunno how you'd prove he got it at this point.

*I checked and found sales from Dec and all the info is there but when I took the number over to USPS it gives the same info as if I'd printed the label today.  Dunno if that would change if you took it to the local PO and had them do a search for it... specially since the info only works (for PayPal) if it's on-line and viewable.

If nothing else you would at least have a tracking number to plug into the case, I'd also see if you can either call or get a call back on PayPal.  I would also try asking on PayPal's boards and see if you can get any help there.

[a_c_green]

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@reallynicestamps wrote:

Give the the tracking number and delivery date in the Dispute.

If this is a Not Received dispute that should end it.

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I think the problem here is that the tracking number status of Delivered can no longer be verified at usps.com. They delete their records after 4 months, while PayPal will accept an INR dispute filing for up to 6 months, so there's a 2-month window of opportunity there for scammers to file a dispute that the seller will lose. (The USPS now has a money grab called "Enhanced Tracking" where they will save the tracking for a longer period of time, but I assume you need to pay for that up front, not retroactively.)

[binderzz]

Yes, it's an item not received dispute.  The tracking number still appears on the paypal activity page for Nov 2019 but it's rolled off the USPS website.

[binderzz]

The original email from paypal says the dispute is under review and they'll be in touch.  The dispute form on the paypal website says they're waiting on my response.

Okay.  I responded to the website form with the USPS tracking number from 6 months ago.

Now, I get an email response - "We're currently reviewing the case.  This may take up to 30 days.  We'll contact you if we need any further information".  30 days?  Ha, ha.

[gracieallen01]

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@binderzz wrote:

Yes, it's an item not received dispute.  The tracking number still appears on the paypal activity page for Nov 2019 but it's rolled off the USPS website.

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Try going down to the post office, talking nicely to the supervisor and asking if they would be kind enough to check their 'intranet' to see if it shows 'delivered'.  They can print it out if it does.

[a_c_green]

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@gracieallen01 wrote:

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@binderzz wrote:

Yes, it's an item not received dispute.  The tracking number still appears on the paypal activity page for Nov 2019 but it's rolled off the USPS website.

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Try going down to the post office, talking nicely to the supervisor and asking if they would be kind enough to check their 'intranet' to see if it shows 'delivered'.  They can print it out if it does.

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I like that idea. I hope it works. 

What I find really annoying about this 4-month/6-month mismatch in recordkeeping is that both parties, PayPal and USPS, know darn well what they're doing. PayPal knows that the USPS deletes their tracking records after 4 months, and once the USPS found out the value of keeping the tracking info longer than that (they used to archive it in a retrievable form, but no longer), they decided to monetize it by charging customers for storing it for longer periods of time.

As I said, I don't know for sure that you have to pay at shipping time instead of retroactively if you need it later, but it does not appear that you can buy the restored data later if you suddenly need it, such as in this case.

[gracieallen01]

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@a_c_green wrote:

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@gracieallen01 wrote:

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@binderzz wrote:

Yes, it's an item not received dispute.  The tracking number still appears on the paypal activity page for Nov 2019 but it's rolled off the USPS website.

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Try going down to the post office, talking nicely to the supervisor and asking if they would be kind enough to check their 'intranet' to see if it shows 'delivered'.  They can print it out if it does.

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I like that idea. I hope it works. 

What I find really annoying about this 4-month/6-month mismatch in recordkeeping is that both parties, PayPal and USPS, know darn well what they're doing. PayPal knows that the USPS deletes their tracking records after 4 months, and once the USPS found out the value of keeping the tracking info longer than that (they used to archive it in a retrievable form, but no longer), they decided to monetize it by charging customers for storing it for longer periods of time.

As I said, I don't know for sure that you have to pay at shipping time instead of retroactively if you need it later, but it does not appear that you can buy the restored data later if you suddenly need it, such as in this case.

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It should work - especially if they aren't overloaded.  It is basically for internal use, but they can, if they want, help out customers.  I know that I needed a copy of a money order and, 2 years after the fact, they had a record of it and sent me a copy - if it isn't in their current database, it is still on file in their repository.

As far as PayPal, they learning was honed by ebay - just follow the money.

[binderzz]

The enhanced USPS tracking is apparently actually called "Premium Tracking".  You can save the delivery data for 6 months out to 10 years ... for a small fee ... of between $2 and $13 per package.

https://faq.usps.com/s/article/USPS-Premium-Tracking-The-Basics

https://pe.usps.com/text/dmm300/Notice123.htm#_c199

Your window to sign up for premium tracking opens with the first day normal tracking is available (day 1) and closes on the last day (day 120).

[gracieallen01]

I guess the USPS is upgrading it's features.  They may still look something up that was a transaction long before their new 'enhancement'.

[binderzz]

Every which way you turn anymore, someone's standing there waiting for the chance to screw you over.

[gracieallen01]

Ain't it the truth.

[binderzz]

I thought the buyer had filed the dispute with paypal but I read the email too fast.

The website dispute form actually says, "The buyer has filed a case with their financial institution for a payment of $161.63 USD you received on Nov 17, 2019. We've opened a case on May 4, 2020 so that we can collect more info and resolve this with the buyer's financial institution."

So, he's skipping over both ebay and paypal and going through his credit card issuer.

[myboardid]

That means it will cost you an extra $20 for the chargeback fee.