I just got a chargeback notice from paypal for a 6 month old transaction.

[binderzz]

A buyer from almost 6 months ago (2 weeks short of 6 months, actually) has filed "item not received" with paypal. I got an email from paypal but there's nothing more on the paypal website (on my account page) I can find.

Yeah, he got it. The item ($160) was delivered long ago. The transaction information has rolled off and disappeared. I'm not even positive what the item was (I think it was probably a pair of Streamlight flashlights). I don't have a tracking number or other proof of delivery but I assume paypal has access to that, somehow.

What happens at the 6 month line? I assume the "buyer" has his eyes on both ebay and the paypal deadlines for filing complaints and he's trying to play both to his advantage?

It seems like every 3rd or 4th ebay transaction becomes a needless PITA.

[vrie39]

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@binderzz wrote:

I'm done with both ebay and paypal.  I won't fund my paypal account to cover the -$170 balance.  I won't be stolen from.

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Make sure to "disconnect" any external accounts from them, however... Since you have the buyer's information, have you tried (wait until you are calm) calling the buyer and simply and plainly asking the buyer what they think this is about? Tell him/her who you are and some of the details... Make sure you are calm, and remain factual.

You never know, it truly could be an honest mistake.

[binderzz]

"... it truly could be an honest mistake ..."

I admire your faith in your fellow humans.

I will attempt to send a polite message to the buyer asking "what's up" and remind them the items were successfully delivered last November.

[binderzz]

It's not going to let me disconnect any external accounts as long as the balance is negative.

If they pull money from either my bank account or a credit card to satisfy the negative balance, I'll file an "item not received" claim with the credit card and try to reverse the bank debit claiming fraud.

[dtexley3]

You can get historical tracking data from USPS by filing a restoration request, however you may end up paying a small fee for it.  If you can get it, then file an appeal with Paypal.  I don't have the link handy, you many have to call USPS for information.

[binderzz]

The USPS doesn't let you pull up historical tracking information anymore beyond 4 months.  120 days saved - more or less - is about it and the record disappears.  I drove into town and talked to the postmaster - he confirmed that 120 days was it and there was nothing more he could do.

Ebay keeps a mirrored record of the USPS tracking information on the item order details page.  That's only publicly available for 60 days.  I know they keep the information "forever" - they've said they do - and you'd think paypal could get to it but it's not available for me to use after the 60 days.

The USPS restoration button that - as I understand it - used to be available online to pull up a sunset'd tracking record has been replaced with a premium tracking service available for "a small fee" that can extend the tracking archive life out for years but you have to pay for the service before the standard 120 days is up.  Once the 120 day window closes, there's nothing more to be done.

This has thoroughly highlighted just how worthless seller protections are here.  Worse, it's clear ebay and paypal are basically in cahoots with anyone inclined to play the system.

I don't see much else to be done.  I can't even close up my paypal account until the refunded negative balance is paid off and with linked bank information I'm sure they can settle that up without me agreeing to it.

[a_c_green]

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@binderzz wrote:

The USPS restoration button that - as I understand it - used to be available online to pull up a sunset'd tracking record has been replaced with a premium tracking service available for "a small fee" that can extend the tracking archive life out for years but you have to pay for the service before the standard 120 days is up.  Once the 120 day window closes, there's nothing more to be done.

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You have that right. Up until a few years ago, USPS archived their tracking data after four months, but it could be brought on-line again by request, with a promised response time of four hours. Unfortunately they dumped their archive service and the data is no longer retrievable after four months. (You can only pay to have the data preserved now, and even that option is only available before the data is removed.)

Because USPS deletes the data after four months, but PayPal allows Item Not Received disputes to be filed for up to six months, this creates a two-month window of opportunity in which scammers can file INR disputes for which a seller will have no defense (as the proof of delivery is no longer viewable on-line). Essentially, within months 5 and 6 following delivery, PayPal allows a dispute to be filed which is impossible for a seller to defend against.

What's doubly annoying here is that this was entirely predictable (and was predicted; I wasn't the only one pointing this out) when the policy timespans were first announced some time back, and now it's happening, and there still appears to be little interest in addressing it.

[binderzz]

It's more than just annoying.  It's dangerous.

No one sells on ebay expecting to not only ultimately give the items away for free but to be out significant paypal/ebay/postage fees for the privilege.

Over the last few months I've sold a $2000 item and several $300-500 items and this has me wondering how many of those "sales" will soon boomerang back to bite me in the **bleep**.

[binderzz]

I sent the "buyer" a polite email advising him an error had been made and that a credit card chargeback had been issued for an item actually delivered to his address of record last November.

We'll see what happens.  🙂

[ladyindecadence]

I dealt with a similar situation about a year ago. I had a buyer open up a PayPal item not received case at 179 days after the payment date. After some digging I found that the USPS does in fact archive all the shipping data at a facility in Washington DC. However the local post offices do not have access to this archive. But you can request a copy of the archived tracking information through the Freedom of Information Act It does take about 3 weeks to get the information mailed to you but will give you complete tracking history for a tracking number on USPS letterhead with a signed letter from the USPS head archivist. You can request the information through this link

https://pfoiapal.usps.com/app/Home.aspx?from=S

Once you get the documents from the USPS archive you can fax them to paypal and they will consider it as proof of delivery.

[bebe-1153]

Thank you for contacting PayPal.

Due to how old this transaction is, the post office has removed the tracking information from their website. Please take steps to request the information from USPS by using the FOIA link  at the bottom of their website.

 
1. GO TO: USPS.COM
2. SCROLL TO THE BOTTOM AND CLICK ON “FOIA” under Legal Information
3. Submit a FOIA Request
4. U.S. Postal Service FOIA Requester Service Centers and Public Liaisons
5. U.S. POSTAL SERVICE MANAGER RECORDS OFFICE: Online Link
6. Create an account: Register – Online Portal Account
7. Sign In
8. REQUEST STATUS

Give about 10 days to 2 weeks to receive in the mail

It is my pleasure to assist you. Thank you for choosing PayPal.

[a_c_green]

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@bebe-1153 wrote:

Thank you for contacting PayPal.

Due to how old this transaction is, the post office has removed the tracking information from their website. Please take steps to request the information from USPS by using the FOIA link  at the bottom of their website.

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Kewl. I sincerely hope that works.

[binderzz]

I signed up for the USPS FOIA thing and submitted a request last night for the old tracking record.  They give the option of submitting online with an email reply (rather than by actual mail) so I did it that way.  The header information said they were understaffed and "social distancing" because of the Wuhan Flu, hands-off electronic submissions and replies was the recommended procedure.

We'll see if anything comes of it.  Even if something does emerge from the USPS archives it'll likely be after the Paypal dispute appeal window has closed - I think that was 10 days.  The paypal dispute decision was "final" so I don't even know what good an appeal would be anyhow.

As it turns out your paypal account is locked up until you settle the negative balance.  I also found that out last night.  This process has been a big eye opener for me.

Thanks.

[binderzz]

Our old postmaster retired a couple of years ago.  He was okay.  When I talked to the new guy the other day about this he had no interest in pursuing anything or even in making a phone call to find anything out.  He only said the 4 month deep public tracking record were all you could get to.  Also a big eye opener.

[binderzz]

This is going to grind out forever ...

[bebe-1153]

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@northeast*traders wrote:

It has been 6 months (minus 2 days) since the buyer received my package and they just opened the case. I spent 2 hours on the phone with USPS with no results. Called ebay 3 times and paypal twice, even conferenced them in together and was told there is nothing I can do. Told that they will most likely rule in his favor and give him $440 from me. I submitted the request so here's hoping...

FOIA request worked wonderfully. They sent me a detailed summary of every scan which I was able to give to paypal to prove fraud

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Hi @northeast*traders, can you come back and share deets?