I believe I figured the real WHY on the GTC change, and its not what you think..

[crownsfieldcellular]

I've been on these boards voicing my extreme dissatisfaction with the loss of listing time options for several days.  I've called ebay multiple times, and I've ranted and raved.  I think a lot of this came out of shock and confusion, as I just could not figure out why in God's name they would have done this.

To ME, in my mind, eliminating the urgency that short duration auctions provided was basically suicidal for eBay, and homicidal to my business by eBay's hand.

It's taken me a few days to digest this change, and really put it into perspective.   I think I have finally come up with the bigger picture answer here, and I have begun to see this from eBay's perspective.

Let me start this by saying this:  eBay is not an evil, greedy corporation, looking to suck everyone's blood and destroy everyone's businesses. 

eBay is simply a BUSINESS themselves.  But eBay is a different kind of business than any of us run on their site (unless any of you are running a global, publicly traded corporation on eBay - then you are excluded from that statement). 

They are a Multinational GIGANTIC global corporation, which is publicly traded on Wall Street.  They have shareholders to answer to, board members, and also of course almost 7 million sellers. 

So while I may not agree with everything they do (all of us might not)?  It's important to try to think like them, and consider that they are trying to keep eBay afloat and viable for EVERYONE, including their sellers that depend on them and this website.

If they do not produce profits, growth, dividends and good stats for their shareholders (who may be some of you too), and get their stock price to go up?  There will be no more eBay. 

We will just wake up one day and our favorite market place will be gone.  It's a sobering reality to think about.  I would be extremely, extremely upset and crushed if eBay were to be no more personally.

That said, many of you may become very angry at what I am going to reveal here, some not so much, and some of you might not care.  But understand I am not writing this to "unmask a villian" here and reveal the "evil master plan"..

What's going on here is simply a calculated business decision, and it actually makes a lot of sense (whether you agree with it in full or not).  

What I've seen on these boards (and some of these opinions were previously espoused by me as well) are some basic (incorrect I believe) assumptions, and judgements as to why eBay instituted this GTC change -  and took away our previous options:

1) "It's a sneaky fee grab because they are depending on my unwanted GTC renewal fees as a cash cow because they can't produce more sales!!"

I don't believe this is true.  I firmly believe eBay will remedy this unwanted consequence somehow, because I do not believe this was their intention.  They have also come out vehemently that this was NOT their intention by doing this.  I do not think they are lying to our faces that blatantly.  This was not their real intention for this change (In my opinion).

2) "They're idiots who have no idea how to run this website!!  They arent actual eBay sellers and they are making changes just to make them without realizing how much they are going to hurt my (and their) sales!!"

I was one of the people saying this initially.  I do not think this is the case anymore.  One thing is for certain at least?  They are NOT idiots.

3)"They are trying to push all the small sellers off the site!! They dont want us here anymore!! They just want big China companies (Big corporations, etc)!!"

Again, no I do not think this is their real intention either.  Although it might be an unfortunate collateral consequence it seems, to early to tell.  I do not believe that this was the "spirit" behind this decision though.  It just doesn't make enough sense.  "Casual" sellers who create bad buying experiences for customers are already being weeded out by their other systems, so it just wouldn't make financial sense to axe 30% of your sales force in this way.  The revenue losses would be tremendous, and there would be little to no way to make up for them (again in my opinion that is).

4) "They want to force me to buy a store subscription even though I don't want one!!"

This is probably true, but it's not the whole picture.  Us buying store subscriptions though makes them more money, so obviously if this was one of the reasons for the change?  It would make sense, and I couldn't argue with it as a capitalist understanding they are running a business as well, and knowing all the things I said initially.   So this one?  Probably true, but not the main intention (in my opinion again)

Why is eBay really doing this?   Here is my synopsis:

I believe now that forced GTC is a way to basically nudge more sellers to start using promoted listings.

It's a very covert way of raising their Final Value Fees without actually announcing that change (and really pissing people off)...

I think they thought the change to GTC really wouldn't upset too many people, because they claimed that 80% of listings on the site are already GTC anyway.

I think they underestimated how many people would be upset about this though, and this amount of backlash was not what they were anticipating. 

It's just ironic that all that backlash has been coming from complaints that were incorrect about their agenda (in my opinion).

I believe eBay figured something out here as far as the short term listing duration options go:  I believe that they figured out that sellers were getting "free" organic boosts on the site, using these options.

Especially the 3 day option, which is basically all promoted organically..You get the newly listed boost for a while, and then pretty much right after that ends you are getting a free ending soon boost as well.  Plus you are getting free buyer urgency to help you make a sale.  You were charged nothing for all this before (except the FVF fee and a nominal listing fee if you had no store)

I believe that eBay  came to the realization and made the decision: "Why give sellers something for free?  when we can start charging them to promote instead?" 

I think this the biggest reason they have done this now.

Also, and I know this is true for me; I don't use promoted listings for shorter duration BIN listings. I don't have to really.

So by allowing those duration options there for my (our) use?  They were actually losing money on a big segment of sellers who they believe will now start paying for promotions instead. 

They were leaving money on the table before.  This closes that gap.

Now with this change?

It totally levels the playing field for everyone and there are NO organic boosts anymore.  (outside of "newly" listed, but how long does that last when all your listings start going through the GTC cycles, if they do?)

With everything GTC there is no longer ending soonest boosting, as nothing ever technically "ends". Plus there's no more organic urgency. If you think how great that is for eBay, with their promoted listing structure in place to fill the gap?  It's almost astonishing.

It's a complete win - win for them. Now as a seller you can have slow or moderate sales compared to what you had before with your short duration's? OR you can promote your listings to get them to sell faster, and pay higher Final Value Fees voluntarily.

And of course? You can always lower your prices to get faster sales. Either way? eBay wins (in their minds at least I think).

Eliminating the shorter duration's to me now is just eliminating a few freebies they were giving away for a long time - Organic listing boosting is definitely one of them.

In one fell swoop they took that away completely, and also took away the free URGENCY that those listings created for buyers as well. 

I couldn't figure out why in god's name they would have done this.  Until this all hit me.  Because that URGENCY?  Is also a FREE TOOL they had been giving us. 

Now?  No More.  Now it's basically just paid promotions.

eBay has very, very brilliantly changed the entire landscape of their market, in a very simple way.  To accommodate and usher in a whole new "promotion" game it seems to me. 

And they are proving that there is no free lunch out there big time.

I'm not as angry now that I understand this.  I'm not thrilled about it either, but I'm also not as confused.  Now this all makes sense from their perspective at least.

I've also heard that they will be initiating a feature where you can send offers to watchers.  I think this is brilliant, and it will actually help very much to convert GTC listings (which in the past you simply could not do at all, except running a sale maybe). 

I also like the idea that every listing now with have automatic Make Offer included for free (at least this is what I heard they are going to start doing site wide). 

I think these two features will help with sales a lot.  I don't use best offer too much now, but admittedly in the past it has helped me make a lot more sales when I did.  So they aren't wrong about that.

In a nutshell?  I think what I listed above was the "master plan" though..

It's really the only thing that really makes sense from a big picture, macroscopic lens that eBay sees the world and the market place through.

All in all, I do not think it's a bad idea.  I think it balances out their needs as a business to survive, and our needs to make sales and money pretty well.  If you think of it in those terms, which you really have to.  If you want eBay to be here to sell on.

If this truth **bleep** you off?  I'm sorry, but it seems it is what it is at this point.

I can't say that I am definitely going to start promoting my listngs, but maybe I will at 1 or 2% to compensate for the other lost free tools.  Luckily my profits on my items are usually good enough, and my FVF's in my category are pretty low as to where I wont really feel a 1% increase or so in FVF's.

But that's just me. 

I have no idea how others will fare with this, and I doubt eBay does either. 

This seems like a very calculated "hail mary" play, where if it works?  It might work wonders. 

If it blows up in their face with the sellers?  It could also spell catastrophe as well.

I guess we'll see how it plays out. 

That's my new take on all this.  It's their sandbox, and I need and want them around as a venue to sell on.  

So I'm going to stick around and see how this all plays out.

It could wind up being for the best. Or it could wind up being the worst thing they have ever done/tried and sink the entire website.  That's the cold reality of all this.

We shall see

Good Luck to you all.

[pcobra93]

This all boils down to ONE thing....AMZN. Ebay is TERRIFIED of their power and the millennials  sitting in their offices in CA have zero answer for them.....and are doing really stupid things. They need to forget about AMZN and go back to what made them....COLLECTIBLES. If they continue on their current path they will be a footnote in history.

[ozarkjoe]

I understand the need to make a profit however Wall Street and the MBA school mentality is a financial cancer that looks for short term profit while killing the goose that lays golden eggs.  Look at the loss of PayPal due to activist shareholders.  What happened to Kodak and TWA?  Other companies get a big boost in the stock market with major changes that are seen as beneficial.  Have we seen a GTC bump in the past few months in the stock price?

[the_boatwiser]

You have way to much time on your hands to come up with that pile.  The best thing for ebay is to have sellers sell and sell quickly - period.  More sales = more FVF for them, less sales or slowed sales = less FVF for them.  A good business decision is quicker income not slower sales.  3-5 day BIN sales = quick sales.  What do you think, everyone now will go Oh Boy, I'll spend all kinds of money paying for listings I never spent before to sell the same amount or less than I was selling before this loser of a move by ebay went into effect.  I doubt too many people will spend more to make the same or less.  And if you don't know the stock is doing just fine without this idiotic GTC.

[kathieskorner]

I would never presume to post about what the current eBay's management was "thinking" with the GTC change.  I tried wading through the OP's convoluted "real why on the GTC change, and it made as much sense as the kitty cat flap the eBay VP has posted.   

And personally, I could care less about the "Why" - it makes no sense when the option has been available for those who wish to use it for years, and those not using GTC probably have equally good reasons for not doing so.  

[castlemagicmemories]

---

@pcobra93 wrote:

This all boils down to ONE thing....AMZN. Ebay is TERRIFIED of their power and the millennials  sitting in their offices in CA have zero answer for them.....and are doing really stupid things. They need to forget about AMZN and go back to what made them....COLLECTIBLES. If they continue on their current path they will be a footnote in history.

---

I agree to a certain extent.  It only makes sense to be aware of what your competition is up to, what they offer, etc.~that is good business sense.  Just don't try to be them, retain your own unique personality.  eBay has a lot Amazon doesn't have~they can play to their strengths.

As Judy Garland said:  Always be a first rate version of yourself instead of a second rate version of someone else.

[dinpavent0]

I think the whole point of the google thing is that when someone is searching for something they don't always go directly to ebay first. They google what they are looking for to get the best price and the exact item they are looking for. Google will pull up several links to many different sites including ebay and then you can just click the link to go to listing and buy. It is NOT depending on google it is just how a majority of people search for things in general. If ebay has it their links will come up to our listings for that particular item. IT happens all the time with the auto stuff I sell. Some of my buyers are brand new, never had a ebay account until they found my item to purchase from doing a google search. Not everyone things to check ebay then go to every other store or online site. Hope this makes sense to you.

[midcenturybuys]

100% Correct! The only way to use the "Promoted Listings" feature is with a GTC listing, can't do it with auction listings.  Whats going to be the only way to stand out with GTC? Ebay hopes promoted listings. 

[8uiboti_0]

The real problem I see is everyone always speaks of this "ebay" as if it were a someone or a something or even a person that is ultimately responsible for whatever is happening, this it is not... Even this thread, the OP called CS...

Are you kidding me?

Ranting and raving at who, some poor (likely) commission-based minimum wage representative who has nothing to do with nothing?

Somedays I wish you sellers could be at the receiving end of some of these phone calls I see you guys talking about "call CS for this, call them for that" These same sellers act like buyers are unreasonable...

Lets get one thing straight:

Ebay is a corporation.

A corporation is a business entity that is owned by its shareholder(s), who elect a board of directors to oversee the organization's activities.

Ok, let me clear this up a bit further:

YOU are a member of this corporation.

Buyers are also members of this corporation.

You may not have directly implemented this latest change but rest assured you somehow played a part in it.

You didn't?

Well neither did the CS!!!

[clu3]

If you look at your paypal reports, something like 80 or 90% of purchases are done on a mobile platform.  When I search for something on my phone, it's always Google, I never go directly to a site.  That's who they're going after, but IMO it's a flawed process.  Unless every item you sell is new and available in multiple quantities, the link isn't going to work in perpetuity.  Ebay would be far better served in focusing on their own search mechanism so when that link isn't working, they come up with true matches as replacement for the original search.

You're probably correct about the organic boost of short term listings.  In the past couple of weeks, I've read many posts of how 7 to 10 day listings ending Sunday-Monday were the magic bullet of selling.  I've never used anything other than 30 day, GTC and an occasional auction, so it was news to me.  Now to get that boost, you'll have to pay for it.  But in pushing Promoted Listings, are they undercutting the aforesaid "true match" system that they were originally going for with Google? 

If I'm looking for something, and that something IS available - that's what I want to be shown.  Not something that has been promoted by the seller and Ebay has determined might be an alternative for me.

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

dinpavent0

People who start their shopping on Google and end up shopping here because of a link from Google are a minority of ebay shoppers (most of whom start their shopping here by coming here directly to shop). eBay execs have disclosed this several times in the last couple of years, HOWEVER, and this is important, among NEW-to-eBay buyers, the majority of THOSE buyers get here from Google. In other words, if ebay has any hope of growing its buyer base (and , as sellers, we should all be hoping they do that), it really needs to increase the number of buyers coming here from Google. And staying here to shop, not leaving because the link was dead because the seller didn't use GTC. ebay has ramped up its TV ads and so forth, but at the end of the day, driving traffic from Google (and other search sites, and social media sites such as Pinterest....that is absolutely critical to ebay's survival. ) So you are correct....many people are not old time ebay buyers who shop here more or less regularly. There are a LOT of people, especially those who weren't around in the early days of ebay, who have never been here. If eBay can get them here from Google, we as sellers benefit from the increased demand.

[weschurch]

I'm not buying the Google thing. If I want something from Ebay, I go to Ebay and search. When I am searching something on Google, google can show me 50 places to buy and If those sites are Ebay or Amazon or whatever I'm still going to choose which site I like best and feel more comfortable buying from.

My point is, if I'm searching Google, I've already ruled out buying from Amazon or Ebay because if I wanted to buy there, I would have went to their site first.

[hopefulstation]

Hmmm.  Lengthy read.  A lot of us don't have the time to consider all of eBay's reasoning, nor to write an epistle.  And a lot of us don't care...and why?  Because we are seniors, fixed income, juggling health issues, etc.  Happy to have found a venue we can, to some degree, count on.  Then to have the rug pulled out from under us, and force us to figure out new strategies.  They will profit, of course.  Us, not so much.  Kind of...not fair, huh?  Lots of people don't much care about seniors, we are throwaways, get  outta the way, gramps.  Sobeit.  They'll be old one day, too.

[preciousbrilliance]

I think your theory is correct ** SO... PROMOTED LISTING payments are recv'd by ebay upon sale of the item taken w their extra % of FVFees UPON sale of the item. If an auction does not sell after it was promoted...sellers used to have the opportunity to allow the listing to end & list similar, then it is now becomes a brand new auction & the promoted increase in FVFees are LOST by ebay. ***So NOW w the new addition of **GTC (good til cancelled)** -the auction is in essence forced to relist by GTC, then even if the promotion was stopped a month ago & that item sells on its own (not anymore due to the promotion), the Extra %percentage of FVFees still go to ebay- **as The way I read it by agreeing to the promoted listing on an ebay item (items)- one also agrees to giving those increased %FVfees a month later even if the seller decided to end the promotion & it has actually sold on its own. &when trying out promoted listings... found it really difficult to find what Items I had promoted & super difficult to end the promoted listing when I tried. For some reason it takes hiring a sleuth to figure out what items one promoted. interesting strategy.

[my-cottage-books-and-antiques]

weschurch,
Right. There are other people are just like you, too, when it comes to searching. Absolutely.
But here's the thing: It's a great big world out there, and many people are NOT like you. They don't do what you do. They do what I said: they search on Google, and if the item they want is on eBay, they end up coming to eBay. But if there's no link to ebay in the first place, well, obviously they aren't going to come here. And if there is a link, and they come here, but the link is basically dead because the listing had timed out....they aren't likely to be happy. I'll say it again: the majority of people coming here who are NEW to ebay are coming from Google. You don't come here from Google? Then you aren't one of those new people. But there are a lot of them. They make up the majority of the new buyers for us to sell to. That is not me guessing. That is ebay execs talking to stock analysts, for the last couple years. Before the GTC change.It is important to get them here from Google. eBay can't just rest on its laurels forever (by which I mean, its established, and let's face it, ageing buyer base. I started here 20 years ago, and I'm not afraid to admit I'm part of an aging seller base LOL. )

[weschurch]

---

@my-cottage-books-and-antiques wrote:
weschurch,
Right. There are other people are just like you, too, when it comes to searching. Absolutely.
But here's the thing: It's a great big world out there, and many people are NOT like you. They don't do what you do. They do what I said: they search on Google, and if the item they want is on eBay, they end up coming to eBay. But if there's no link to ebay in the first place, well, obviously they aren't going to come here. And if there is a link, and they come here, but the link is basically dead because the listing had timed out....they aren't likely to be happy. I'll say it again: the majority of people coming here who are NEW to ebay are coming from Google. You don't come here from Google? Then you aren't one of those new people. But there are a lot of them. They make up the majority of the new buyers for us to sell to. That is not me guessing. That is ebay execs talking to stock analysts, for the last couple years. Before the GTC change.It is important to get them here from Google. eBay can't just rest on its laurels forever (by which I mean, its established, and let's face it, ageing buyer base. I started here 20 years ago, and I'm not afraid to admit I'm part of an aging seller base LOL. )

---

We can agree to disagree I suppose. You can buy into what Ebay says but I've been around that block countless times. Its like trusting a used car salesman.

Getting people to Ebay really shouldn't be a problem in this day. Thats like "tricking" people into going to Wal-Mart. At one time the name Ebay was where people automatically went. That name has been replaced by a word that starts with a big "A". 

Getting the scraps off Google is where we are at with Ebay today? Yikes