How did seller get feedback removed?

[gsf_tech]

So this question is to understand how a seller got feedback removed when I made a purchase as a buyer, since I'm not aware of what "method" they used to justify getting the feedback removed.

A seller offered a given fabric per foot, in various colors with returns accepted. I ordered one color and found out that their poorly lighted (on a dim table with no quality lighting) and differently white balanced listing images did not properly reflect the item's color. Various pictures of the same item in the listing didn't even look the same color. And I use a professionaly color calibrated graphic monitor (for photography) so the problem wasn't on my end.

Granted, I understand this can happen so I contacted the seller asking if a small sample could be received of 2 or 3 colors to avoid having to order the whole quantity I needed of each color. If they sent the samples, I'd simply keep the item I couldn't make use of, and buy the one I need in the quantity I needed. They never responded. I wrote again. They didn't respond.

So I ordered a second color. It was also substantially different. I ordered the third color and that one turned out good for my use. Since I was being ignored, I opened a legitimate return request for the colors I wasn't able to use. I opened it as "Not needed" even though a "Not as described" case would have been accepted (in Ebay's eyes) because I know it sucks to received them. The shipping fees were also inflated on this item, so I know I was sacrificing getting them refunded by being polite to the seller, despite having an arguable case.

And then the seller immediately contacted me. I asked them why they were writing now, and not to my previous messages, and they openly admitted they were ignoring them. I told them it was fine and perfectly reasonable to not send samples, but just let the buyer know, don't ignore them as that is horrible customer attention. That bothered me, and when I let them know they told me it wasn't their responsibility to post better pictures, it was mine to better investigate the  product codes on the internet (for a generic product in which codes mean little). That bothered me even more.

So I left one negative feedback stating it was for openly admitting to ignoring my messages, one neutral feedback stating that better listing images should be used, and one positive feedback just to balance out a bit since the third order went okay. I just checked and the Negative and Neutral feedbacks were removed, despite being legitimate, for different causes and different orders. What arguments could the seller use to justify that and report them? Just to know if as a seller I can apply them too if it ever happens to me.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@missjen316 wrote:

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@*eponymous* wrote:

This isn't a trial, and there is actually no standard of proof for eBay or PayPal.  The buyer says the item is SNAD?  Then for return purposes, the item is SNAD.  PayPal will allow the return if eBay will not; and PayPal will refund return label cost if purchased at retail price.

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No they won't. That's not actual paypal policy. Paypal has a return shipping program that one must enroll in BEFORE the purchase is made and paypal will reimburse up to $30, up to a certain number of returns per year. 

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I can confirm what missjen316 says (the above blue response) as true.

[lintbrush*]

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@gsf_tech wrote:

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I hope no one really went through the trouble of counting. That seems quite creepy.

It's simpler than that, I simply don't tend to  give sellers feedback if they don't do anything out of the ordinary. Nor do I expect it. I only tend to give positive feedback one the time to open a case has expired, and normally by then the time to leave feedback has expired. Nothing odd there. I make hundreds of purchases on  ebay,  so I don't think it's anything odd four an account that is used mostly for purchases. And yes, I only leave negative feedback if the seller really screws up and is negligent. 

Just checked. Where can I find that info about feedback? I just looked and the vast majority of my feedback is positive.

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It was me - not missjenn - so I'll own my alleged creepiness  lol

Actually it was quite easy to do.  I pulled up your Feedback left for others... showed 200 per page.... and then did a search (Ctrl F) for "Seller"  They all highlighted.  It took about 2-3 minutes. 

Whenever there's a post about feedback issues, people are going to look and try to see a pattern to better understand.  Yeah, I might've been a bit judgmental and I shouldn't have said "oh boy"  That wasn't necessary.  It did reveal quite a high rate of dissatisfaction though which might be the basis for removal.  It's just another theory. 

Prior to a year ago, you weren't leaving so many negs and show oodles of purchases.  I wonder what changed.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@gsf_tech wrote:

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@castlemagicmemories wrote:

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This suggests that you saw the dim table with no quality lighting and that  various pictures of the same item in the listing didn't even look the same color, that would indicate that you did know that the color was wrong. or at least that there was a chance it could be wrong, again backed up by the fact that you asked for samples.

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That's because I'm writing in hindsight. I didn't know that at the time of purchase.

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@castlemagicmemories wrote:

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items, even on listings that accept returns, are not sold subject to approval upon receipt.

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Of course they are, and that's a good thing. It creates billions of dollars in sales which wouldn't have been made otherwise. It's the whole reason why "Returns accepted" is the industry standard, and why Ebay pushes it so hard on vendors. Of course we hope it isn't abused, but we're all open to it happily. I'm perfectly okay with buyers ordering and returning as long as they don't damage the packaging and try to keep the item pristine if they aren't totally sure that they will keep it. It's the nature of online sales where the buyer doesn't see the item in advance. Imagine if sales on clothing weren't subject to approval upon receipt! No one would take the gamble of buying online. I think this is something all sellers here know and accept.

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@gsf_tech

I think our interpretation of the terms, on approval, vary.  While I will agree that returns are allowed on a listing that states returns, and I know that is for any reason,  I also feel that in this case, the pictures were bad, no response from seller, you had the choice to walk away.  Thus you bought knowing in advance that most likely you would have returns, which is not the same thing.

Buyers are asked to do due diligence in vetting the seller, checking out pictures, reading the description, and making up their mind decisively prior to purchase.  Having the possibility of a return when this is carefully done is, in my opinion, different than buying knowing that most probably there will be an issue necessitating a return, and I think that this can be construed as abuse.

I think that the posters who mention you could have walked away, while not challenging your right to return since the seller offers returns, are basing that on the higher probability in your case of returns because of the lack of communication, your expectations, and bad pictures.

[plumbingspecials]

Wow. I would have blocked you.

You essentially have no respect for the seller's time, effort or cost.

[castlemagicmemories]

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@gsf_tech wrote:

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@castlemagicmemories wrote:

@gsf_tech

I understand your position and that is what you would do.

But most sellers would  not, I think.

And would be very surprised that you would even ask that, let alone comply.

Just my take on it.

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For fabrics and color dependant, it's pretty standard practice. Just ask any paint vendor for a swatch book. Regardless, like I said, I wouldn't hold it against a seller to say no. I perfectly understand that, and would appreciate a seller writing back to say it isn't possible. It's saying that they didn't respond because they didn't deem it worth the time what annoyed me. Pretty undestandable. Imagine someone turning around and walking away when you asked them a question in a physical store.

Sorry I just don't think the fabric sellers on ebay would find the request for fabric samples and to provide them to be pretty standard practice.

Again, we can agree to disagree.  

Any fabric sellers, please do comment with your thoughts.

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[tellmemama]

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@gsf_tech wrote:

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@ersatz_sobriquet wrote:

I didn't read all the replies, but you wanted something a seller had and they ignored your messages. At that point it was your responsibility to walk away from that seller. You didn't, so no sympathy.  Not condoning ignored messages, but, it was your choice to purchase anyway. 

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I understand not reading, but this question isn't for sympathy, I'm just curious about how it was removed should I be able to use the same method to get feedback removed in the future. The rest is just context.

Again, that's something only known in hindsight. I didn't know the questions were ignored until the seller said so, after the purchases had been made and the return request was opened. Until then I just thought the messages slipped through the cracks. Careless maybe but not negligent, and that wouldn't justify negative feedback if it was only that. And again, they are the sole seller of this item so I didn't really have any other options besides buying and hoping for the best. And I ended up getting the suitable item on the third try. The item was fine, it was the customer service and listing description which was lackluster.

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With all due respect, I have to call lunchmeat on this (especially the part of your quote which I highlighted).  Actually, you knew the seller was ignoring your messages because he didn't respond to them.  That in itself is enough reason to hit the back button, but you went ahead and purchased fabric where the colors were according to you, sketchy at best.  That ended up in two returns out of three orders, right?

The seller now has those back.  Question:  did you buy the whole amount he had?  If not, he now has two remnants which may or may not ever get sold unless there is another buyer looking for the same amount or less.  And once that's cut to fill a subsequent order, there is yet another remnant.  There's a reason why fabric remnants in general are deeply discounted. 

General rule of thumb is if there is anything in a listing you don't like, you don't buy.

[bekenterprisesinc]

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@tellmemama wrote:

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The seller now has those back.  Question:  did you buy the whole amount he had?  If not, he now has two remnants which may or may not ever get sold unless there is another buyer looking for the same amount or less.  And once that's cut to fill a subsequent order, there is yet another remnant.  There's a reason why fabric remnants in general are deeply discounted. 

General rule of thumb is if there is anything in a listing you don't like, you don't buy.

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Thats an excellent point!!!  Because the OP wanted something for nothing, and had no regard for the seller, she/he caused the seller added and uncalled for expenses.  I am curious if the OP would enjoy being treated the same way from one of her/his buyers??  

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@tellmemama wrote:

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@gsf_tech wrote:

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@ersatz_sobriquet wrote:

I didn't read all the replies, but you wanted something a seller had and they ignored your messages. At that point it was your responsibility to walk away from that seller. You didn't, so no sympathy.  Not condoning ignored messages, but, it was your choice to purchase anyway. 

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I understand not reading, but this question isn't for sympathy, I'm just curious about how it was removed should I be able to use the same method to get feedback removed in the future. The rest is just context.

Again, that's something only known in hindsight. I didn't know the questions were ignored until the seller said so, after the purchases had been made and the return request was opened. Until then I just thought the messages slipped through the cracks. Careless maybe but not negligent, and that wouldn't justify negative feedback if it was only that. And again, they are the sole seller of this item so I didn't really have any other options besides buying and hoping for the best. And I ended up getting the suitable item on the third try. The item was fine, it was the customer service and listing description which was lackluster.

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With all due respect, I have to call lunchmeat on this (especially the part of your quote which I highlighted).  Actually, you knew the seller was ignoring your messages because he didn't respond to them.  That in itself is enough reason to hit the back button, but you went ahead and purchased fabric where the colors were according to you, sketchy at best.  That ended up in two returns out of three orders, right?

The seller now has those back.  Question:  did you buy the whole amount he had?  If not, he now has two remnants which may or may not ever get sold unless there is another buyer looking for the same amount or less.  And once that's cut to fill a subsequent order, there is yet another remnant.  There's a reason why fabric remnants in general are deeply discounted. 

General rule of thumb is if there is anything in a listing you don't like, you don't buy.

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While this is all true about fabric the seller offers returns on fabric.  So it's a non issue the seller already agreed to Returns for any reason the buyer did nothing wrong by utilizing what the seller offered   

[bekenterprisesinc]

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@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

I actually completely disagree that you wanting to return was wrong.  That's exactly what accepting returns is for.  If a seller accepts returns they accept them for any reason.  You wanting samples would have actually benefited the seller in that they wouldn't have had to worry with the hassle of returns.  Seems like it would have been a good idea.  Although completely the sellers choice not to. I agree she should have at least responded saying she wouldn't.   Regardless you bought anyhow to try and find what would work for you and returned what didn't.  Completely within the sellers return policy.  And very good that you didn't open not as described this wouldn't fall under that and would be wrong.   Now I probably wouldn't have left bad feedback though.  After all it was your choice to take that risk of buying anyhow.  There is a number of reasons it could have been removed if the seller tried to prove you left it because you didn't get samples it would have been removed   If you mentioned feedback in communication with the seller.  Or it could just be because your ratio of negs to positives is so high   

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You're just wrong!

A) the seller was not obligated to provide samples.  it costs money to provide samples.  the seller may not have had enough of a margin to provide samples.  As I stated in another comment, I would LOVE to know what the OP would have considered an acceptable sample!!

B) it is ABSOLUTELY WRONG for a buyer to buy something with the intent to want to "try it out" with the high probability they would return it.  That is as close as theft as you can get.  When an item is purchased and sent to a buyer, IT LOOSES VALUE!!!  

C) The OP KNEW KNEW KNEW what she was going to do before she bought those items.  No matter what she says, she was specifically looking to fraud a seller.  Just look at her FB, it's pretty clear.  

D) the OP did not come on here for any other reason than to gripe about a seller getting her FB removed and the OP not being bale to have the last nasty word with that seller.  She is only here as a matter of being "butthurt" that someone was able to rid themselves of her nastiness!!  A true attention whore!

Any seller with a smidge of professionalism would never do this to another seller!!!!!!  

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@bekenterprisesinc wrote:

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@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

I actually completely disagree that you wanting to return was wrong.  That's exactly what accepting returns is for.  If a seller accepts returns they accept them for any reason.  You wanting samples would have actually benefited the seller in that they wouldn't have had to worry with the hassle of returns.  Seems like it would have been a good idea.  Although completely the sellers choice not to. I agree she should have at least responded saying she wouldn't.   Regardless you bought anyhow to try and find what would work for you and returned what didn't.  Completely within the sellers return policy.  And very good that you didn't open not as described this wouldn't fall under that and would be wrong.   Now I probably wouldn't have left bad feedback though.  After all it was your choice to take that risk of buying anyhow.  There is a number of reasons it could have been removed if the seller tried to prove you left it because you didn't get samples it would have been removed   If you mentioned feedback in communication with the seller.  Or it could just be because your ratio of negs to positives is so high   

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You're just wrong!

A) the seller was not obligated to provide samples.  it costs money to provide samples.  the seller may not have had enough of a margin to provide samples.  As I stated in another comment, I would LOVE to know what the OP would have considered an acceptable sample!!

B) it is ABSOLUTELY WRONG for a buyer to buy something with the intent to want to "try it out" with the high probability they would return it.  That is as close as theft as you can get.  When an item is purchased and sent to a buyer, IT LOOSES VALUE!!!  

C) The OP KNEW KNEW KNEW what she was going to do before she bought those items.  No matter what she says, she was specifically looking to fraud a seller.  Just look at her FB, it's pretty clear.  

D) the OP did not come on here for any other reason than to gripe about a seller getting her FB removed and the OP not being bale to have the last nasty word with that seller.  She is only here as a matter of being "butthurt" that someone was able to rid themselves of her nastiness!!  A true attention whore!

Any seller with a smidge of professionalism would never do this to another seller!!!!!!  

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A. I didn't say the seller was obligated.  I said I didn't see anything wrong with asking.

B.  That's what returns are for   That's why eBay has a search function for returns accepted.  Because some buyers want to be sure they have the option to return if it doesn't work 

c. There is no fraud for items in accordance with a posted retur. Policy   If they filed not as described I'd agree fraud.    I commend the op for not doing that  the paid return costs and the seller wouldn't have to refund original shipping either  

d.  Someone doing really wrong would have left a neg for all three   The op left a positive for the one they were happy with.  And as I said I don't think negs should have been left for any of them myself 

[myangelandmyprincess]

to add to that its not like the op bought all three at once with the intentions of returning two.  They bought one realized it didn't work (that's when they asked if fhey could get samples). Bought a second thinking maybe it would work and didn't. Then bought a third and it did   They then returned the two that didn't.    

[starroute-us]

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@gsf_tech wrote:

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@starroute-us wrote:

": How did seller get feedback removed?"

By calling ebay, stating actual facts and having the CSR read all the messages between you and the seller.

Probably had some policy in hand as well.

Good grief:(:(:( 

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I need to remember more often how canabilistic other sellers are on this forum. It's as if everyone feels entitled to fill in the blanks with whatever makes the other party look justified. Because of course, starroute-us knows exactly what was in those messages, and exactly why I was in fault. All hail starroute-us!

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Your response, just proved the point. 😞

FB is not removed easily, "something" must have been said or demanded,:(

I have been here 20 years and you are one difficult *cookie*:(

[tellmemama]

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While this is all true about fabric the seller offers returns on fabric.  So it's a non issue the seller already agreed to Returns for any reason the buyer did nothing wrong by utilizing what the seller offered   

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Except the OP was pretty sure at least one purchase (and in actually two) didn't work.  By puchasing them anyway after everything else the seller did "wrong" in her eyes, he now has two unneccessary remnants.   Suppose you were wanting to buy a specific uncut yardage but now there isn't enough left from this seller to fulfill your order?

The seller potentially lost more than just the two sales here.

[myangelandmyprincess]

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@tellmemama wrote:

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While this is all true about fabric the seller offers returns on fabric.  So it's a non issue the seller already agreed to Returns for any reason the buyer did nothing wrong by utilizing what the seller offered   

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Except the OP was pretty sure at least one purchase (and in actually two) didn't work.  By puchasing them anyway after everything else the seller did "wrong" in her eyes, he now has two unneccessary remnants.   Suppose you were wanting to buy a specific uncut yardage but now there isn't enough left from this seller to fulfill your order?

The seller potentially lost more than just the two sales here.

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And if the seller has an issue with that they need a no return policy.  Having a return policy where you accept returns for any reason on fabric the seller is going to have that issue any time a buyer utlizes the policy they provide   The buyers who are utilizing it aren't doing anything wrong 

[imakesugar]

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@myangelandmyprincess wrote:

I actually completely disagree that you wanting to return was wrong.  That's exactly what accepting returns is for.  If a seller accepts returns they accept them for any reason.  

Online sales of Material is a little different. If the buyer is looking for a certain color to fit a quilt that they are making the color needs to have a GOOD photo of the material. Quilters also have the need to "FEEL" the material. I see that Most Fabric Sellers Do offer returns "without question" for that reason.  Sellers  of Fabric usually Use a printer to copy the material with a coin on the Glass to get the color right. So yes, the Seller might have tried to take a picture with a camera...that does not work on fabric. 

You wanting samples would have actually benefited the seller in that they wouldn't have had to worry with the hassle of returns.  Seems like it would have been a good idea.

Actually this is also common practice for quilt stores to send out a small piece so the customers are getting the color to match the quilt they are working on. I imagine this happens on eBay also.

 Although completely the sellers choice not to. I agree she should have at least responded saying she wouldn't.  

Generally Quilters are the Best customers. It seems like this fabric Seller might have been dropshipping or did not have the piece to send. I see some listings for Paid returns "no questions asked" Most returns by Buyers of material are because of COLOR. Then they are not breaking anything because there is nothing to break.Some Fabric Sellers can give a good idea of what the color is by using a box of Crayola Colors, they are pretty standard. Most people have Crayola colors around with the colors on the wrapper.  I DO think it was rude of the Seller to NOT reply back. 

Regardless you bought anyhow to try and find what would work for you and returned what didn't.Completely within the sellers return policy.  And very good that you didn't open not as described this wouldn't fall under that and would be wrong.  

OP DID return for the right reason and PAY for return shipping. I don't see any problem with that. 

Now I probably wouldn't have left bad feedback though.  After all it was your choice to take that risk of buying anyhow.  

The first order WAS something that a negative could be given for. However OP clearly admitted that She could NOT get the same fabric anywhere else. That is the only reason that She continued to buy from this Seller. I know how it works...

My Mother has at times run out of fabric she needs for a particular quilt. She will ask me to search for more of the same Fabric. Even with the name of the Fabric and the brand many times I can not find it. Meanwhile Mom is going crazy because Nothing else will work but the same piece and she NEEDS it to finish her work.

There is a number of reasons it could have been removed if the seller tried to prove you left it because you didn't get samples it would have been removed   If you mentioned feedback in communication with the seller.  Or it could just be because your ratio of negs to positives is so high   

OP they are right about that...It is a possibility that if You are leaving TOO much negative/Neutral feedback. You did state that You do Not leave feedback On ordinary Sales. You need to start leaving feedback on ALL purchases. Then a true picture of How many purchases are satisfactory and how many were bad. As You are doing it now Your percentage of Negatives and Neutrals are HIGH.

Op you might have got a better response on the Material board. They understand how Quilters/Sewers are!  

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