eBay

custome36 · ‎04-02-2019

I'm really having a hard time lately with eBay charging us 40% higher seller fee penalties now and thinking about leaving eBay, because it seems I can't get eBay to help me anymore. Namely, we sell product types that typically have a higher refund rate (3%), which is higher than the norm within Consumer Electronincs., however we rarely have Not as Described returns.. Per eBay Return policy, the 4% higher final value fees is for "Not as Described" returns being higher than peers. Our Not as Described Returns aren't high at all (approx less than 0.4%). However ebay is charging me 17.5% (10%, plus 4% penality for Not as Described" returns, plus Paypal fees, listing fees..), because they are claiming I have a Not as Described return rate of 3%. However when we dug deeper, it appears they are looking at all returns to calcluate this percentile. We've only had two Not as Described returns (and both buyers selected them to just get free return shipping) out of just under 700 transactions). When questioned this, with management (the eBay rep agreed with me totally, but they couldn't do anything about it), the manager instead wanted to argue with me and say they look at all returns, and it didn't matter how many of them "Not as Described" returns I had, they still counted against me in my seller metrics and I had to pay 40% higher fees now. However the policy specifies "Not as Described" returns only would be counted against the seller..

We're a power seller, and sell a products in Consumer Electronics that typically has a much higher return rate than typical items in Consumer electronics, because it's often an item they want or need to try out, (as the service is not avail in all areas). We disclose that, but we always get a percentage of non-savvy customers that dont ready the disclaimers, and/or order it anyways, or perhaps no they can get free shipping by just marking the item as Not Working / Defective or Not as Described, so they don't have to pay return shipping. In a sense, the Not Working / Defective Reason may fit best in their minds, because if they ordered the wrong frequency band antenna, or their area simply has no signals, a stronger antenna doesn't necessarily guarantee they'll get perfect reception.. I just wanted to provide some back story why are total return rate is 3%, which may be higher the Consumer Electronics in general,.

Because buyers want free shipping, Item Not working (even though the antennas work just fine, it's just nothing avail in their area or terrain in the way) it's is a common return reason they are choosing, however no where in policy does it say those return types were added to the Not as Described returns to arbitrary make a seller pay 40% higher fees.. Until policy is changed, why would they even do this?

Granted, I had Customer Changed Mind, No Longer Wanted, and Item Not Working / Defective Returns, and two Not as Described Returns.. if you add them all up that is 3% refund rate, however Not as Described Return Rate is truly a very small percentage of that 3% refund rate, yet they are using it as justification to make me pay 40% higher seller fees.. Am I crazy here or is the eBay Seller Performance manager telling me vs Policy just contradictory. I been following up on my reqeust on it for 10 days now and been on phone for two hours about this today, getting really frustrated with getting the run around about and different answers each time.. I keep getting told they'll follow up with me in 24 to 48 hours, but no one does, so I'm forced to keep calling again and again..

Why wouldn't eBay follow their own policy though? I haven't seen anything else come out that other returns would be included to justify a 4% higher final value added fee, other than those specific return types.

bmp_auto_salvage · ‎04-02-2019

I'm in the same boat, no way is 3.19& a "High" return rate. Since they've enacted this policy I've been selling on more and more different outlets and beginning to do quite well with locals. It is truly a greedy policy in which they have enacted when they know darn well buyers simply manipulate the return system to always be in their favor. I jope they do something to resolve this because sooner or later they are going to implode because of this horrible policy.

custome36 · ‎04-03-2019

Could Alan@ebay.com or Tyler@ebay.com please chime in here..

1. Is it NAD returns only or other return reasons as well?

2. What if all those NAD returns were shown to be buyers that just wanted free return shipping or chose the wrong return reason by mistake? 100% of them in my case were not true NADs?

3. Why are items in subcategories with much higher return rates being compared with the main category, which has a much lower return rate?

4. Why does this fee increase only apply to power sellers (those with 10 NADs per category are the only ones they're measuring and assessing this 40% fee increase)?

5. Is it a 4% fee increase, or a 40% fee increase?

6. Personally, I've been a powerseller, with 100% feedback every month, for years now, and TRS plus, yet you're are greatly penalizing me and other great sellers with this change.. Is eBay really overlooking the severing of great business partnerships with many of its best sellers?

twnpopcards · ‎04-03-2019

@custome36 wrote:
Could Alan@ebay.com or Tyler@ebay.com please chime in here..

1. Is it NAD returns only or other return reasons as well?
2. What if all those NAD returns were shown to be buyers that just wanted free return shipping or chose the wrong return reason by mistake? 100% of them in my case were not true NADs?

3. Why are items in subcategories with much higher return rates being compared with the main category, which has a much lower return rate?

4. Why does this fee increase only apply to power sellers (those with 10 NADs per category are the only ones they're measuring and assessing this 40% fee increase)?

5. Is it a 4% fee increase, or a 40% fee increase?

6. Personally, I've been a powerseller, with 100% feedback every month, for years now, and TRS plus, yet you're are greatly penalizing me and other great sellers with this change.. Is eBay really overlooking the severing of great business partnerships with many of its best sellers?

The increase is from 10% to 14% FVF which is reality is a 40% increase in FVF revenue fees for Ebay. They have already stated that nothing will be changed from counting against your numbers even if they definitely are remorse returns because they seem to feel it all averages out in the long run for everybody. Of course, Ebay will not tell you who your peers are or give you any insight as to how those numbers are arrived as that is all proprietary information, or as an ex employee posted on another website grabbed out of thin air.

Ebay NEEDS to show some kind of growth and since the site has so many glitches and insufficient traffic to justify any type of across the board fee increase this is the best they can come up with. Without this increase Ebay would not have shown the 1% growth in the 4th quarter and probably would have actually shown negative growth for that quarter.

In Ebays way of looking at things, Buyers are their customers and if they have to contact a Seller for any reason then that is not considered a good buyers experience and so the Sellers must be doing something wrong. I still do not understand how Ebay does not apply this same rationale to themselves in dealing with the Sellers as we pay all their fees. So in most companies way of thinking, that makes us their customers and if they were held to the same standards that we are, Ebay would never be profitable as they would need to reduce their fees to almost nothing or maybe even paying us to Sell on their site as Sellers are constantly having to contact Customer Service for some error or glitch.

Ebay is trying desperately to justify this increase by blaming it on the Sellers by saying if they provided better service or products then Ebay would not have a problem showing growth like the other sites do. They just do not understand that everytime they issue new Seller Updates with more Draconian rules that Sellers must once again learn to deal with, all they do is chase more and more business to those others sites, both Sellers AND Buyers, as the buyers follow the products they want and I guess because Ebays CEO continues to say China is their future he is not aware that most US Sellers are also the buyers they feel are so precious. So as they chase off the Good Sellers - they also chase off almost as many Good Buyers. This concept has been mentioned and explained over and over by many Sellers on the boards, but ever since Donohoe took over as the CEO, Ebay has considered anything mentioned by Sellers to be nothing but NOISE. But that NOISE has been getting softer and softer each year as more and more people change to sites that do actually want our business, not just the Chinese who Ebay continues to sign partnership agreements with to help them grow the Chinese presence on Ebay.

I am sorry that you have had to deal with this the hard way also and hope that things turn around for you very soon.

webwanna · ‎04-03-2019

Ebay Policy states:

We may apply additional final value fees on your sales in the following circumstances:

If your account doesn't meet our minimum seller performance standards for the US at the time of sale, there will be an additional 4 percentage points fee on the standard final value fees at the time the item sells. You can go to your Seller Dashboard to check your current seller level for the US region. Above Standard and eBay Top-rated Sellers will not be charged this fee; or
If your rate of 'Item not as described' returns is evaluated in your service metrics as Very High in one or more categories, your final value fees will increase by 4 percentage points for sales in those categories. You can view your personalized service metrics on your Service Metrics dashboard in Seller Hub.

_____

They are using all my returns to calculate my Item Not as Described return % too. They need to either change the policy or correct the metric calculation. Good catch.

You might still be very high compared to others in your category even after they make the correction. It would be pretty ridiculous if 2 INAD claims makes you have to pay a penalty. Maybe post this in Technical Issues category if Alan or Tyler don't respond.

custome36 · ‎04-04-2019

Great points, guys. Alan@ebay or Tyler@ebay could you please chime in / answer?

custome36 · ‎04-04-2019

trinton@ebay

tyler@ebay

brian.t@ebay

alan@ebay

Could someone please help. I'm having trouble understanding policy.

weschurch · ‎04-04-2019

@twnpopcards wrote:
@custome36 wrote:
Could Alan@ebay.com or Tyler@ebay.com please chime in here..

1. Is it NAD returns only or other return reasons as well?
2. What if all those NAD returns were shown to be buyers that just wanted free return shipping or chose the wrong return reason by mistake? 100% of them in my case were not true NADs?

3. Why are items in subcategories with much higher return rates being compared with the main category, which has a much lower return rate?

4. Why does this fee increase only apply to power sellers (those with 10 NADs per category are the only ones they're measuring and assessing this 40% fee increase)?

5. Is it a 4% fee increase, or a 40% fee increase?

6. Personally, I've been a powerseller, with 100% feedback every month, for years now, and TRS plus, yet you're are greatly penalizing me and other great sellers with this change.. Is eBay really overlooking the severing of great business partnerships with many of its best sellers?

The increase is from 10% to 14% FVF which is reality is a 40% increase in FVF revenue fees for Ebay. They have already stated that nothing will be changed from counting against your numbers even if they definitely are remorse returns because they seem to feel it all averages out in the long run for everybody. Of course, Ebay will not tell you who your peers are or give you any insight as to how those numbers are arrived as that is all proprietary information, or as an ex employee posted on another website grabbed out of thin air.

Ebay NEEDS to show some kind of growth and since the site has so many glitches and insufficient traffic to justify any type of across the board fee increase this is the best they can come up with. Without this increase Ebay would not have shown the 1% growth in the 4th quarter and probably would have actually shown negative growth for that quarter.

In Ebays way of looking at things, Buyers are their customers and if they have to contact a Seller for any reason then that is not considered a good buyers experience and so the Sellers must be doing something wrong. I still do not understand how Ebay does not apply this same rationale to themselves in dealing with the Sellers as we pay all their fees. So in most companies way of thinking, that makes us their customers and if they were held to the same standards that we are, Ebay would never be profitable as they would need to reduce their fees to almost nothing or maybe even paying us to Sell on their site as Sellers are constantly having to contact Customer Service for some error or glitch.

Ebay is trying desperately to justify this increase by blaming it on the Sellers by saying if they provided better service or products then Ebay would not have a problem showing growth like the other sites do. They just do not understand that everytime they issue new Seller Updates with more Draconian rules that Sellers must once again learn to deal with, all they do is chase more and more business to those others sites, both Sellers AND Buyers, as the buyers follow the products they want and I guess because Ebays CEO continues to say China is their future he is not aware that most US Sellers are also the buyers they feel are so precious. So as they chase off the Good Sellers - they also chase off almost as many Good Buyers. This concept has been mentioned and explained over and over by many Sellers on the boards, but ever since Donohoe took over as the CEO, Ebay has considered anything mentioned by Sellers to be nothing but NOISE. But that NOISE has been getting softer and softer each year as more and more people change to sites that do actually want our business, not just the Chinese who Ebay continues to sign partnership agreements with to help them grow the Chinese presence on Ebay.

I am sorry that you have had to deal with this the hard way also and hope that things turn around for you very soon.

Well said, this is nothing more than a case of Ebay looking to profit by structuring a system. Ebay shady tactic #3674.

Of course Ebay has a vested interest to only include any kind of return in the metric, because that gives them the opportunity to profit. Its predatory, a huge conflict of interest and outright scummy but 100% par for the course for this fledgling desperate one time giant.

partsman330 · ‎04-04-2019

I too sell electronic items which by nature have a higher return policy. Buyers often buy parts that are not the right part for their oven/dishwasher/dryer/etc or misdiagnose the problem (bc they are trying to fix it cheap) when this happens they return the part "Not As Described" which is a lie in itself. Its even worse when the part has been installed bc i cannot resell said part and its a 100% loss PLUS the return shipping! The risk of selling appliance (or auto) parts on here is EXTREMELY high.

This policy clearly effects some sellers more than others as some products, by nature, will have higher return rates.

It begs the question: DOES EBAY WANT THESE PRODUCTS ON THEIR PLATFORM?

Are these rules set to get rid of the items they do not see as valuable for their platform/goals? Do they feel that high return items are simply something they do not want on here anymore? I feel like many sellers are fighting a losing battle trying to sell items that are not really viable on this platform anymore. If this is truly the case, what can ya do? It's their platform so they can do what they want with it.

brian@ebay · ‎04-04-2019

@custome36 wrote:

Could Alan@ebay.com or Tyler@ebay.com please chime in here..

1. Is it NAD returns only or other return reasons as well?

2. What if all those NAD returns were shown to be buyers that just wanted free return shipping or chose the wrong return reason by mistake? 100% of them in my case were not true NADs?

3. Why are items in subcategories with much higher return rates being compared with the main category, which has a much lower return rate?

4. Why does this fee increase only apply to power sellers (those with 10 NADs per category are the only ones they're measuring and assessing this 40% fee increase)?

5. Is it a 4% fee increase, or a 40% fee increase?

6. Personally, I've been a powerseller, with 100% feedback every month, for years now, and TRS plus, yet you're are greatly penalizing me and other great sellers with this change.. Is eBay really overlooking the severing of great business partnerships with many of its best sellers?

Hi @custome36, I'm happy to offer some clarity!

1. Yes, only Not As Described returns are counted.

2. We count all Not As Described returns that were opened within the review period.

3. I've requested more information on this one. I'll get back to you when I have more to share.

4. The consequence for being 'very high' is not specific to Power Sellers. We have a minimum threshold to prevent a single/small number of returns or negative transactions from impacting a sellers fee structure. This is also to give some wiggle room for returns where a buyer may select a Not As Described reason by mistake.

5. It's an additional 4% added to items sold within the category where a seller is rated very high.

6. Thanks for sharing your insight, I'll pas it along.

It looks like tags for community staff wasn't done quite right in this post. To tag us, be sure to put the @ symbol first. For example, "@tyler@ebay" . A drop-down menu should appear. From here, you can select the staff member you'd like to tag. Thanks!

Brian,
Community Team

coffeebean832 · ‎04-04-2019

@custome36 wrote:
Because buyers want free shipping, Item Not working (even though the antennas work just fine, it's just nothing avail in their area or terrain in the way) it's is a common return reason they are choosing, however no where in policy does it say those return types were added to the Not as Described returns to arbitrary make a seller pay 40% higher fees.. Until policy is changed, why would they even do this?

Granted, I had Customer Changed Mind, No Longer Wanted, and Item Not Working / Defective Returns, and two Not as Described Returns.. if you add them all up that is 3% refund rate, however Not as Described Return Rate is truly a very small percentage of that 3% refund rate, yet they are using it as justification to make me pay 40% higher seller fees.. Am I crazy here or is the eBay Seller Performance manager telling me vs Policy just contradictory. I been following up on my reqeust on it for 10 days now and been on phone for two hours about this today, getting really frustrated with getting the run around about and different answers each time.. I keep getting told they'll follow up with me in 24 to 48 hours, but no one does, so I'm forced to keep calling again and again..

Why wouldn't eBay follow their own policy though? I haven't seen anything else come out that other returns would be included to justify a 4% higher final value added fee, other than those specific return types.

eBay is following their policy. Item not working or defective is considered to be a not as described claim. According to the listing the item works- so if a buyer says it doesn’t that’s equivalent to not matching the description.

As for buyers selecting an incorrect return reason and even admitting it in messages- eBay doesn’t do anything to protect the seller or remove the marks from your metrics. That’s what’s unfair here. So kNowing that’s the case you will need to factor this into your business decisions- evaluate your pricing and choice of inventory to combat the higher fees.

custome36 · ‎04-04-2019

The policy specified Items Not As Described / Doesn't Match Description returns, as verified by Brian. Although eBay may be adding different return reasons to the metric to assess 40% higher seller fees, It actually doesn't state or specify that Item Not Working / Defective return reasons would also be included and these reasons are not the same as being Not As Described.

There is a difference here, and the buyer knows what to chose. becausse a "Not As Described - Doesn't Match Description" return reason means the customer didn't get what they ordered.. However, a "Item Not Working / Defective" actually dos not necessarily mean the Item was Not As Described / Doesn't Match description. It may of actually been described this way in the listing that the item may not work.

These are not at all the same reasons. For example, we actually state in the listings, that item may not work! Many sellers sell items broken and for parts only. This does not mean the item was not described or doesn't match description. This is why this has completely took me off guard and others as well I'm sure. If the policy was unclear or incorrect, I don't' see how eBay can force me to pay another $700 in eBay fees.. I.. There is a Doesn't Match Description / Not As Described return reason and there is a entirely different return reason to choose which says "Item Not Working - Defective" That was our planned mortgage payment after all.

We have thousands of feedbacks, 100% feedback for 3 years now.. Obviously if our items were Not As Described, we wouldn't be a power seller with 0 negative feedbacks consistently for years.

brian@ebay , if policy states it's for Not As Described / Doesn't match description returns, are they going to give credits back to sellers that they punished them based on a calculation based on the wrong return types? For example, our item will not work in many cases, and it's stated in the listing, but it's still a common reason customers choose to get free return shipping. Our Not as Described / Doesn't Match Descriptions are better than our peers..

coffeebean832 · ‎04-04-2019

You need to read the policy FAQ from the seller update when this was announced.

Why are only some return request reasons included in my "item not as described" rate?
Your "item not as described" request rate will help identify items that do not meet buyer expectations after the sale. All sellers must accept and resolve these types of return requests from buyers when valid:
- "Doesn't work or defective"
- "Doesn't match description or photos"
- "Wrong item sent"
- "Missing parts or pieces"
- "Arrived damaged"
- "Doesn't seem authentic"
In instances where buyers ask to return items they simply no longer want or can’t use, the requests will not be included in your "item not as described" rate. Sellers decide when they list their items whether they want to accept these types of returns, and we encourage you to offer the best customer service you can to meet buyers' needs, including free returns.

custome36 · ‎04-04-2019

Thank you for pointing that out, Coffeebean.., I didn't see the Q&A section. I still think the changes are unfair, but see where I missed that part.

coffeebean832 · ‎04-04-2019

The policy is unfair- but when we choose to sell here we have to deal with all that eBay has to offer, good and bad. I removed a couple of items from my eBay inventory when this policy went into effect and I sell them elsewhere. Now that you have a better grasp on the policy you can make any necessary business adjustments.