Charge back claims

[48hrs-clothing]

Should we automatically guide every buyer to filing a dispute with their Bank, Credit card or Pay pal when we only know one side of the story?

Is it possible that this advice unwittingly is leading to more fraud being committed against sellers?

I am not so certain that this advice is always helpful and your valued input would be appreciated.

[48hrs-clothing]

I was not challenging nor will I ever challenge any one who gives advice as I am one of those who posts on this forum. 

I may disagree in private with what some one else posts but I will not disrespect them by challenging their views publicly.

I accept without any reservation that every one who gives advice does so with good intention.

My OP was simply to ascertain whether possibility of unwittingly leading to more fraud being committed against sellers was considered by anyone as this was never considered by myself when I advised buyers to go to Charge back.

I in future intend to refrain from giving this advice till I am as sure as I can be that claimant is indeed wronged.

I am grateful to you for taking the time to respond and for trying to assist others.

[fab_finds4u]

I try to find out why they want to return it and what is their seller's return policy.

I always advise a buyer to open an eBay case first, using a factual reason; changed mind, doesn't fit, doesn't match, etc.  If for some reason they're unable to open a case on eBay you try PayPal next, itand credit card chargeback if you didn't pay with PayPal. 

It doesn't matter what the sellers side is. Their only defense for not received is having tracking showing it was in transit by their handling time and it was delivered by the delivery date.  There is no way to dispute the buyer's claim it's not as described. Therefore, it's pretty useless to ask their side.  

A smart seller knows to avoid a defect by accepting returns and if they have proof in messages the buyer abused the returns process eBay might reimburse the return label cost. They'll keep an eye on the buyer. If they open too many cases or claims or get a lot of seller complaints the buyer will lose MBG. 

[gibsonbk]

Chargebacks and returns or item not delivered different things.  Here has been my experience with chargebacks since moving to Managed payments.  And yes I have have more in the past few months than I had in all the years with PP and it does all come down to one thing bad ebay customer service.  All my chargebacks were because said customer called ebay customer service and the advice given was to request a chargeback.  Most often it was because the customer did not recognize the charge and ebay was unable or unwilling to tell them what they purchased. Once I sent an email and explained it was cleared up.  My biggest problem with chargebacks is that ebay is accepting the CC therefore they should also accept the risk. Sellers should not be responsible for chargebacks.  That is like me accepting a bad CC in my shop and then charging my consignor.   All the other sites I sell on that accept the CC on my behalf take the responsibility.  

[soh.maryl]

My point exactly -- the OP apparently believes that there is a way that a third party can evaluate whether or not a buyer's claim is bogus.  I asked him how that would work.  Maybe there's a secret somewhere that we don't know.  

[*madison]

Should we automatically guide every buyer to filing a dispute with their Bank, Credit card or Pay pal when we only know one side of the story?

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Yes, because no one here has a crystal ball that actually works.  So, advice has to be given accordingly...

Most of the time we only hear one side of the story, and there is nothing we can do about that.

[pburn]

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@48hrs-clothing wrote:

I in future intend to refrain from giving this advice till I am as sure as I can be that claimant is indeed wronged.

---

Interesting position, since you've given quite a bit of advice that is incorrect or inappropriate for ebay.com users. Perhaps that advice has been correct for the buyers and/or sellers on your "home" board of ebay.co.uk, but not for ebay.com users. 

Whether you choose to provide information concerning credit card chargebacks is moot, since plenty of US responders obviously feel it's appropriate to provide all options in response to a member's dilemma. We don't consider ourselves to be judge and jury of an OP's situation but, rather, provide all alternatives available to resolve the problem. We don't withhold information based on whether we think the OP has been "wronged."

I think this would be a great topic for your fellow UK members to discuss and debate. You might consider posting it on the UK discussion board(s):

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Discussion-Boards/ct-p/13

[48hrs-clothing]

Charge back issue is a global and not limited to any one of eBay's sites.

Your advice is read globally and may be you should keep this fact in mind when you post.

I sell to USA therefore I have a right to post on this and any other forum I choose.

No one's permissions required or needed.

[chapeau-noir]

I don't think that giving the poster a sequence of steps to resolve a dispute is having any impact on fraud on the site in general - we may be helpful to individuals or groups of individuals, but TBH, I don't think our impact is much in the great scheme of things.  Certainly not enough to significantly contribute to the rise in fraud which is internet wide and has been accelerating in the last 5-6 years, at least according to the trade press.

[48hrs-clothing]

My sincere thanks for your input which is much appreciated.

My respect for choosing a Great source of wisdom and inspiration. 

[48hrs-clothing]

I agree that responsibility rests with bank or payment processing centre ( Clearing Bank) as it was they who confirmed that everything was good and eBay authorised the seller to dispatch to an address that was confirmed by the same Bank or payment processer centre.

Seller can not be involved in any wrong doing as he has no knowledge of any financial details regarding payments yet the seller ends up paying. 

I accept without reservation that each buyer deserves to get what they paid for.

I accept that I will never know all facts relating to any post and in the absence of these facts I have to take it on face value.

This has been very educational.

Thank you for taking the time to share your views which are much appreciated.

[vintagecraze50]

You want to avoid any chargebacks. Return for refund is what you tell people on here, and do it so the credit card company does not do the refund for you and let the buyer keep the item. CC chargeback are an internet sellers worst nightmare.

[vintagecraze50]

THE BEST seller protection here is the delivery scan.  When you get a case for an item not received you enter the tracking into the case and you are done. Scammers trying to use that as a means to obtain free merchandise are out of luck. Use signature tracking for ALL ORDERS that exceed over 200 dollars or more for extra protection.

[allkindagoods]

Credit card chargebacks should ONLY occur in three instances:

1) ITEM WAS NOT RECEIVED

2) AN UNAUTHORIZED CHARGE WAS PLACED ON THE CARD OF A BUYER.

3) SELLER EITHER IGNORES A RETURN REQUEST, OR REFUSES TO HONOR THEIR / eBay's ESTABLISHED RETURN POLICY.

THAT'S IT. Period. Any other reason is flat-out FRAUD on the part of an eBay user, whether intended to be or not..

The problem is that eBay allows this behavior in the first place- all buyers who have a problem with the condition, functionality, or other issues with the item itself should NEVER be allowed to first run to their bank.

And when a CC chargeback is filed, the first question the card issues has is "Did you attempt to contact the seller (for resolution)? The buyer should be required to go to the person or site which sold the merchandise. Not have a knee-jerk reaction and file a payment dispute first. If a claim is allowed to be filed without a seller being able to handle any problems, THIS IS A LIE PERPETRATED BY THE BUYER, AND IS DEFINITELY FRAUDULENT .

A SELLER ON HERE MUST BE ABLE TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SETTLE A RETURN CLAIM FIRST. CHARGEBACKS SHOULD BE A LAST RESORT, NOT AN OPTION FOR SCAMMERS TO OBTAIN FREE MERCHANDISE!!!

[48hrs-clothing]

1) ITEM WAS NOT RECEIVED

I am certain that you already know the following but I am saying this for the benefit of those less experienced than you.

If tracking shows item not delivered then case would be closed by eBay with a full refund to buyer.

If tracking shows delivered then eBay will find in favour of seller.

Any responsible seller would still follow it up with his postal service provider just in case item was misdelivered 

2) AN UNAUTHORIZED CHARGE WAS PLACED ON THE CARD OF A BUYER.

eBay can not do anything nor can the seller and quite right that a chargeback claim is made.

3) SELLER EITHER IGNORES A RETURN REQUEST, OR REFUSES TO HONOR THEIR / eBay's ESTABLISHED RETURN POLICY.

Case would be resolved by eBay with a full refund to buyer and the buyer is not forced to return the item.

I totally agree that all buyers who have a problem with the condition, functionality, or other issues with the item itself should NEVER be allowed to first run to their bank.

I totally agree that" the buyer should be required to go to the person or site which sold the merchandise. Not have a knee-jerk reaction and file a payment dispute first"

I agree with your sentiment "If a claim is allowed to be filed without a seller being able to handle any problems, THIS IS A LIE PERPETRATED BY THE BUYER, AND IS DEFINITELY FRAUDULENT "

I agree with you that

"A SELLER ON HERE MUST BE ABLE TO HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SETTLE A RETURN CLAIM FIRST. CHARGEBACKS SHOULD BE A LAST RESORT, NOT AN OPTION FOR SCAMMERS TO OBTAIN FREE MERCHANDISE!!!

My sincere thanks for you taking the time to respond to my Post.

Keep well and stay safe.

[vintagecraze50]

Yep, that is correct. People are using credit cards to steal with chargebacks, but they can only do that so many times.